Buying new car

[Mr._Graybeard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andre1969 I'd always been taught that if your drive wheels start to lose traction and you're losing control, just throw it into neutral. That'll kill the power to the drive wheels and make it easier to regain control. But, I've also noticed that with modern, FWD cars, once your drive wheels lose traction, you're pretty screwed, because the front wheels do the driving AND steering. And I'm guessing that this Bonneville was a FWD car? The last RWD Bonneville was the 1982-86 Bonneville-G, and they weren't a very hot seller for the most part.

I had the opportunity to attend the two-day Bridgestone Winter Driving School in Steamboat Springs some years ago. It was an eye-opening experience when it comes to driving in low-traction conditions (in fact, the school inspired me to compete in ice autocross trials on area lakes for a number of winters).

Some of the things I learned: understeer (loss of traction to the front wheels) is harder to remedy than oversteer, where the back of the car kicks out. But people tend to fear oversteer more than understeer.

With a FWD car, if you feel the back end start to fishtail or the car becomes unsettled, get on the gas. Power to the front wheels will straighten the car out.

If the back end of a RWD car starts to go lateral, keep a steady throttle and tap the brakes. Again, that will settle the car and keep you going forward instead of sideways. Lifting your foot off the throttle at that point will almost certainly make the condition worse.

With reduced traction, you either want to be on the gas or on the brakes. Lifting off the throttle can produce a condition known as trailing throttle oversteer, which can deteriorate into a spin. ABS has made understeer skids much less of a problem than it once was. With ABS engaged you can steer while braking.

I would not put a car in neutral while conditions are slippery because it eliminates one tool you have to control the car. It would reduce the possibility of producing trailing throttle oversteer, but if your car is already rotating, power to the wheels is the best way to restore control.

[travelover]

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Originally Posted by Chuckanut I see a whole second career for you. Writing books such as: The Total Imbecile's Guide to the 2021 Ford Pansy V3 Pick Up Truck.

I bought a new 1995 Explorer and it came with a video tape as a quick guide. I actually thought that was very useful.

[ShokWaveRider]

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Originally Posted by Bamaman It's good that you lease cars, and I assume they come with a warranty or dealer maintenance. All the German vehicles are electronically complicated and troublesome. And no one's ever been taken advantage of more than taking a Bimmer or Merc into a new dealer's shop for service or maintenance. You'll also take a beating on the used car market on any German car, unfortunately. But when they're right, they're really a joy to drive. My 2018 Camry Hybrid is replacing a Lexus IS, and it's not nearly as entertaining to drive. But it's incredibly quiet, smooth and gets 49 mpg in town or on the open road. And at 48K miles, it's never seen any shop for any reason.

You are correct, I have not seen a single bill for repair, maintenance, car wash, fluid top up, or anything else in the last 18 years. Not even AAA, as Roadside assistance is also included.

[Winemaker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andre1969 I'd always been taught that if your drive wheels start to lose traction and you're losing control, just throw it into neutral. That'll kill the power to the drive wheels and make it easier to regain control. But, I've also noticed that with modern, FWD cars, once your drive wheels lose traction, you're pretty screwed, because the front wheels do the driving AND steering. And I'm guessing that this Bonneville was a FWD car? The last RWD Bonneville was the 1982-86 Bonneville-G, and they weren't a very hot seller for the most part. Anyway, ABS and traction control have come a long way in 20 years, so using the cruise when the roads are wet is probably no big deal, unless your tires are low on tread.

My Bonneville, IIRC, was a 1983 model RWD, sky blue. There was a slight decrease in elevation as I went across an interstate bridge heading south and I regained that elevation on the other side. That bump in the front, I assume, and the driving rain, caused me to lose control. I did one 360 through the median, then a 180, and ended just parallel to the northbound lane. The car looked like a boat, the hood ornament even with my nose. I could only get out of the rear passenger door, which saved my life. Another 2 vehicles were as dumb as I was, and ended up beside of me. Had I got out of the drivers side door, the second car would have crushed me, and the third car would have put the finishing touches.

[Mr._Graybeard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winemaker My Bonneville, IIRC, was a 1983 model RWD, sky blue. There was a slight decrease in elevation as I went across an interstate bridge heading south and I regained that elevation on the other side. That bump in the front, I assume, and the driving rain, caused me to lose control. I did one 360 through the median, then a 180, and ended just parallel to the northbound lane. The car looked like a boat, the hood ornament even with my nose. I could only get out of the rear passenger door, which saved my life. Another 2 vehicles were as dumb as I was, and ended up beside of me. Had I got out of the drivers side door, the second car would have crushed me, and the third car would have put the finishing touches.

As you accelerate, slow down or turn, your car comes under the influence of momentum, or G-forces. When driving conditions are good, the effect is minimal, but when traction is poor they can get you killed.

A small rise in the road surface followed by a dip can briefly lift some of a car's weight off the tires' contact patch with the road. Take your foot off the throttle as that's happening, and the g-force shifts forward, taking even more weight off the rear wheels and allowing them to lose traction completely. The back end of the car may start to drift sideways.

At that point the first instinct is to countersteer, but without throttle input the back end of the car can't recover traction. The car overcorrects and goes into a spin.

I had this happen on a downhill grade in slushy snow with an FWD car on the day my uncle died in March 1995. I was pushing things a bit to get to the hospital. Fortunately, I ended up doing only a 270 and came to a stop in the grassy median strip. I regained my composure, pulled out onto the freeway and resumed my trip.

[stephenson]

Some interesting comments.

[Andre1969]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winemaker My Bonneville, IIRC, was a 1983 model RWD, sky blue. There was a slight decrease in elevation as I went across an interstate bridge heading south and I regained that elevation on the other side. That bump in the front, I assume, and the driving rain, caused me to lose control. I did one 360 through the median, then a 180, and ended just parallel to the northbound lane. The car looked like a boat, the hood ornament even with my nose. I could only get out of the rear passenger door, which saved my life. Another 2 vehicles were as dumb as I was, and ended up beside of me. Had I got out of the drivers side door, the second car would have crushed me, and the third car would have put the finishing touches.

'83 Bonneville, sky blue. You weren't a sheriff from Texas in a previous life, were you?

IMCDb.org: 1982 Pontiac Bonneville [G] in "Smokey and the Bandit Part 3, 1983"

But yeah, in those old school, simpler cars, it probably was recommended to not use cruise control in rainy/slippery conditions.

[meierlde]

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Originally Posted by ncbill Backup cameras are trivial to add to older vehicles. Blind spot monitoring (the closest I've come to an accident that would have been my fault) can be added professionally for ~$1000. If I drove extensively on highways adaptive cruise control would be worth paying for a newer vehicle. Here is one vendor offering safety upgrades for older vehicles: Blind Spot Solutions | We've got you covered

There is a web sit that tells how to adjust the outside mirrors to help this, the idea is that the mirror be adjusted so you can't see the rear fender when in the driving position. Or there are small convex mirrors that can be placed on the outside rear view mirrors to give a wider view from them. Of course these options do not beep at you to warn you,

[travelover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andre1969 ........But yeah, in those old school, simpler cars, it probably was recommended to not use cruise control in rainy/slippery conditions.

It is not a good idea to use cruise control in slippery conditions like snow and ice for even modern FWD or AWD cars, though they have a lot more electronics to keep them going straight.

[Dtail]

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Originally Posted by travelover It is not a good idea to use cruise control in slippery conditions like snow and ice for even modern FWD or AWD cars, though they have a lot more electronics to keep them going straight.

Cruise control is the one modern function that I don't use. Just like to have full control myself and helps to stay alert.

[GravitySucks]

So ~5,000 miles a year.
Probably cheaper to take taxis/ Uber than to buy another car.

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Originally Posted by ripper1 May just do that because wife loves her car. She only goes back and forth to stores anyway. Has 70k miles on it and garage kept. Won't get anything for it at a dealer I'm sure.

[gerntz]

I find using the tech aids makes driving less tiring/stressful. Staying on highest alert constantly is near impossible.

[DougJohnson]

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Originally Posted by Ian S I welcome the impressive new safety electronics and while my 2011 vehicle has some of them, I look forward to my next car that will have a full complement

Your next car will have a full complement of electronics for about 10 minutes. They are adding more fast. -- Doug

[tsturbo]

Honda/ACURA
Toyota/Lexus

Only brands to consider IMO!

[isisdave]

Rent a new car and take it on a weeklong road trip. We have a 2012 Camry without even a backup camera. That feature, and all the lane departure and adaptive cruise control stuff will help me remain a safe driver as we age. I think.

[morriss003]

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Originally Posted by ripper1 I don't know if this is the right forum for this but here goes. We have a perfectly good car in a 2006 Toyota Camry. In great shape. All the gadgets and new tech in new cars are deterring me from considering a new one. Also the cost of repairs because of the tech are more costly to fix. The only issue is that we do not have side airbags in our current car. What are others ideas about buying newer cars?

I feel like our 2018 Kia Niro is a much safer car than our 2007 Suzuki Grand Vitara. Depending on your age and health (I'm 68) after age 65 it might be wiser to lease a car rather than buying one.

[RetireRay]

We have a Tesla Model Y on order. I’m hoping to receive it later next year to replace the 2002 Toyota Highlander I’ve been driving (original owner). I’m sure the safety features will be MUCH better than what we have now. Tesla’s are amazing vehicles, and American made as well.

[skyline]

Earlier this year, I was thinking about replacing my 2000's era car with something newer, specifically to take advantage of the newer driver assist technologies. Then I did some research, and found that those features really aren't as beneficial as you might think. Check out this study done by C&D:


https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ted-explained/


It's a bit of a lengthy read, but the short of it is that no manufacturer (incl Tesla) has an effective system that can save you from a serious (i.e. above 50mph) collision. Sure, the safety systems might stop or slow you down in a less serious accident (in the 20-40mph range, but only in ideal conditions), but I have insurance to cover lesser accidents. I'm looking to prevent serious life/limb threatening accidents, which the current generation of driver assist technologies can't really do much about.



So now I'm looking at cars in the 5-ish year old range that don't come with all these ridiculously-expensive-to-buy-or-repair features...a good suite of airbags is probably the best cost/benefit safety feature in modern cars at the moment.

[skyline]

Another study involving driver assists preventing pedestrian accidents, again not very confidence inspiring...


https://newsroom.aaa.com/2019/10/aaa...n-needed-most/

[ShokWaveRider]

Anyone here got a VW Tiguan? I am up for a new lease in 2020 and looking at a small SUV. The 3 contenders are (Drum Roll): VW Tiguan, Audi Q3 and BMW X3.

I do not like any US, Japanese or Korean Equivalents. US cars lose too much money in the first 3 years and the others are a little too "rounded or bubbly" for my liking, I prefer a more square look.