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Old 03-16-2018, 03:01 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by RunningBum View Post
I guess what I don't like about leasing is that after 3 years I may not want to trade in my car. I know I can buy it, but maybe I have reasons to want to delay it for 3-6 months.

I also don't want to be fretting about mileage. Sometimes I'll take long road trips, and some times I'll fly. There are a number of factors, and I don't need whether or not I have room for more miles on my lease as an additional factor.

Or are leases really not that confining?
As far as wanting to keep the car, I once asked my dealer if I could buy the car for the residual. "No, no, no...it has to go back into the inventory and blah, blah, blah..." But I suspect this is more BS just to get me into a new car.
As noted, you can often extend your lease for a certain period.

On the mileage side however whenever I find that I'm driving more miles than I expected when I took the lease, I call my dealer and he'll take me out of the lease early and get me a new car/new lease. IWW I don't pay the mileage penalty because it is based on total miles not miles per year.
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Old 03-16-2018, 03:07 PM   #82
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One more thing: My brother leased a new Toyota. Six months later he had a massive stroke. I tried like hell to get the lease taken back or turn the car in early, or whatever to stop the payments. No luck. Unless he died, he's responsible for the lease.

I suppose I could've pushed it further but had a lot more things on my plate on his behalf at the time and he could afford it so I took the easy way out and let him keep paying.

He has one more payment to make and I'll be driving the car back to the dealer in April.
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Old 03-16-2018, 03:14 PM   #83
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Good discussion. Of my last 4 cars, I drove 3 for 7-10 years, and one used one for a year and got rid of it because of problems. I also have a 2nd car that's over 20 years old. So my usage doesn't fit leasing at all.

At some point as I age, I'll stop or at least rarely do long road trips, so my mileage will be more predictable, and I'm more likely to want a newer, more reliable car. Leasing could certainly fit me then. For now I'll stick to buying. My 2014 Forester still feels mostly like new to me.
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Old 03-16-2018, 03:27 PM   #84
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Bought that vehicle for $26,900+title brand new, sold it for $23,900 after driving it for 2years with the accident.

Can you lease a half-ton 4x4 for less than ($3,000/24+ 500 accident deductible) = $145/month ? That's how much total cost of ownership was for me on that vehicle.
Hmmm.... how long ago was that? I don't think you can find a half ton 4x4 for $26K. But you actually paid more than $3,000, you also paid tax on $26,900, right? Or is your state not charging tax on vehicle sales? Something isn't adding up for me.
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Old 03-16-2018, 03:36 PM   #85
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That's helpful, thanks. My problem with the mileage is that it's not predictable. Thinking about the next 3 years if I was do get a new car now, I might make a drive 3/4 across the country and back each of the next 3 years to go on an extended ski trip, or I might fly or not go at all. Undecided. I also like to do marathons in other areas, and would drive anything 1000 miles or less round trip, and probably fly otherwise, but I don't know which ones I'll do. So I have many 1000s of miles of uncertainty. Do I pay extra for 15K miles when I may very well need 10K, or maybe split the difference with 12K but then find if I am high early, that I'm not making those trips in the last year because of the mileage costs, but I'd prefer to. I understand that there's a cost with higher mileage in an owned car, but nobody is making me predict up front how many miles I drive.
If you can't come to a reasonable mileage estimate then maybe lease isn't for you. The extra mileage isn't too much if pre-paid. Just checked on one lease. Lease was $292/mo for 10,500 miles/yr, $316/mo for 15,000/yr and $339 for 19,500 miles/yr. So about 6.4 cents per mile. You can then figure what break-even would be comparing for excess mileage.
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Old 03-16-2018, 03:43 PM   #86
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One more thing: My brother leased a new Toyota. Six months later he had a massive stroke. I tried like hell to get the lease taken back or turn the car in early, or whatever to stop the payments. No luck. Unless he died, he's responsible for the lease.
So, the other option would have been your brother would have purchased the car, and what do you think the hit would have been on trying to sell the car? The depreciation would be significant and don't forget the loss just on taxes ($30,000 would have been about $2,200) plus another $500 in fees, registration,etc.

Alternatively, you could have looked to list vehicle on LeaseSwap site, found someone who would take over the lease responsibility as noted in this article:
(5 Car Lease Strategies You Didn't Know About):
Quote:
4. It's easier than you think to transfer your lease before the end of the contract.
According to SwapaLease's Hall, it is possible to transfer about 80 percent of leases with no strings attached. SwapaLease and rival LeaseTrader find a person to take over the lease and, for a fee, handle the paperwork.

But even after a person transfers the lease, approximately 20 percent of leasing companies require the original leaseholder to retain some "post-transfer liability" for the vehicle, cautions Hall. This means that the name of the person who originated the lease remains on the contract and the original leaseholder can be held financially responsible for unpaid balances. These could result from excess mileage charges or lease-end fees.

Still, if you have had a change to your life situation, and it is suddenly necessary to end your lease, transferring the contract is an option that wasn't available until recently. Using these online leasing sites is easy and minimizes financial loss.
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Old 03-16-2018, 03:49 PM   #87
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Also, do they make leases for folks who put 20,000+ miles a year on a vehicle. That's where DW is at right now. Thank goodness for mileage reimbursement. At this mileage rate, the car is simply a tool to get her to her obligations. I'll buy her the Mercedes when the mileage drops
Certainly, as noted in this article (5 Car Lease Strategies You Didn't Know About)
Quote:
5. Customize the mileage to suit your needs.
Often, people say "'I can't lease because I drive too many miles,'" says Cavano. "But really, it's a situation of pay-me-now or pay-me-later." What he means is that the miles you put on a car decreases its value, so you are paying for the miles whether you bought a car instead of leasing it and whether you pay upfront or at the end of the lease.

Cavano says it isn't unusual to see lease contracts of 30,000 miles per year. Often, they've been written for salespeople who use their cars in their jobs. In the past, it was cheaper to buy miles upfront than it was to pay the penalty at the end. But these days, Hall sees the same cost for upfront and back-end miles. However, if you pay upfront, it might make it easier to budget for that expense. Keep in mind that if you don't wind up driving all the miles you bought, you won't be reimbursed for them.
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Old 03-16-2018, 09:50 PM   #88
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Regarding mileage and leasing--I've got the opposite problem of using too many miles. I don't quite use up all my miles. I get 10,500 per year leases, or 31,500 total miles. My last lease I ended with 30,7xx miles. I didn't get all the miles I paid for!

I'm on a similar trajectory with my current lease. The dealer keeps calling me wanting to get me into a new lease for less than I'm paying now, and with more equipment.

Well of course they want to do this. They would love to buy a 3 year old truck with 30,000 miles on it and then sell it on their lot. They get me into a new truck for $35 a month less than I had been paying. I'm supposed to be happy about this, and I am until I realize they're going to make $5,000 or $6,000 selling my truck. Oh well...
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Old 03-17-2018, 06:51 AM   #89
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I've been in the buy and hold category, keeping my cars for 8 - 11 years each. I'm starting to think seriously about leasing my future car or have one that we own and one that is leased.

While the cars serve a purpose, I've found that maintenance cost, mpg, and features are important to me and have changed alot over the last 20+ years. Also, the hassle or value of the $25k car after 8 - 10 years is very limited, i.e. $3k as a trade in or $5k private sale after dealing with 20 people on the phone or in person. The extra $$ is no longer extra as I took on a part time job selling my car. It becomes the money vs time theme.

For me, a $25k car is compared to a $300 or less lease payment, with a new car ever 3 years. Sure it might be a little bit more expensive than buying and holding for 9 years, but I think there is a cost to the extra warranty covering years 4 - 9. If you go without a warranty, you are self insuring which comes out of pocket if something would happen. My last 9 year old car was getting me 20 mpg commuting home from work, the newer used car I bought gets me 45 mpg, saving me about $75 a month on gas for just my work commute. That's 25% of my $300 a month payment.

Seeing leasing options for a new sedan at about $199- 229 a month with a $2k drive off cost, is giving me serious consideration for the future. YMMV but I'm not sure I want to always keep my cars long term now. My personal situation, active family still w*rking with young kids in school.
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Old 03-17-2018, 07:06 AM   #90
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For me, a $25k car is compared to a $300 or less lease payment, with a new car ever 3 years. Sure it might be a little bit more expensive than buying and holding for 9 years, but I think there is a cost to the extra warranty covering years 4 - 9. If you go without a warranty, you are self insuring which comes out of pocket if something would happen. My last 9 year old car was getting me 20 mpg commuting home from work, the newer used car I bought gets me 45 mpg, saving me about $75 a month on gas for just my work commute. That's 25% of my $300 a month payment.
Well said.

When you get down to it, car dealers are like the tax, insurance and SS people: they've got this figured out 8 ways to Sunday. If leasing wasn't a deal that somewhat made sense to buyers they'd wiggle the numbers until it did.

Not saying leasing is a great deal (it is for them, but that's always the case) but for many people it's a good deal considering all the intangibles.

As noted, if this is a pure numbers play, leasing isn't a good deal. If you're looking for the intangibles it can be.

Personally, at this point in my life, driving around in a car with 15 year old safety equipment would give me the willies. Yes, my 88 year old mom still drives her 27 year old Toyota Corolla but that's all part of my inheritance plan; another thread for another day.
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Old 03-19-2018, 03:51 PM   #91
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There is now a third option for owning/leasing a car (actually, a second option to leasing) which is the subscription option. Volvo offers it on their upcoming XC40 line of cars and Cadillac is also offering this option. I know that the Volvo option is $600/month with a 2 year commitment to the program. Annual miles are limited to 15,000 and all maintenance is included on the car. Additionally, the insurance on the car is also covered and is issued through Hartford. After the first year, you can trade the car in for a new one and continue on the program until the 2 year commitment is up. An upgraded model of XC40 is also available in the program for $700/month.

https://www.volvocars.com/us/cars/ne.../care-by-volvo

I drive a 2004 Volvo XC90 with 240k+ miles on it. DW drives a 2017 Volvo XC90 on a 39 month lease. There are definite pros and cons to owning and leasing. I chose to buy in 2004 because I was putting almost 20k miles/year on the car. DW puts no more than 10k miles on car. The safety features alone on the new car (blind spot detection, lane departure warning, collision mitigation, etc) have got me thinking about getting a new car.
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Old 03-19-2018, 04:39 PM   #92
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There is now a third option for owning/leasing a car (actually, a second option to leasing) which is the subscription option. Volvo offers it on their upcoming XC40 line of cars and Cadillac is also offering this option. I know that the Volvo option is $600/month with a 2 year commitment to the program. Annual miles are limited to 15,000 and all maintenance is included on the car. Additionally, the insurance on the car is also covered and is issued through Hartford. After the first year, you can trade the car in for a new one and continue on the program until the 2 year commitment is up. An upgraded model of XC40 is also available in the program for $700/month.

https://www.volvocars.com/us/cars/ne.../care-by-volvo

I drive a 2004 Volvo XC90 with 240k+ miles on it. DW drives a 2017 Volvo XC90 on a 39 month lease. There are definite pros and cons to owning and leasing. I chose to buy in 2004 because I was putting almost 20k miles/year on the car. DW puts no more than 10k miles on car. The safety features alone on the new car (blind spot detection, lane departure warning, collision mitigation, etc) have got me thinking about getting a new car.
Quoted monthly does not include TT&L which in Texas can be $2500 in tax @ 6.25% and add another $150 in transfer fees ($40,000 MSRP car). So add a couple hundred more per month. It's still a nice program though.

In some states, like CA where TT&L fees are very high, the monthly will be much more.
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