Careers vanish after subprime freefall

[Independent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TickTock True. The Census numbers are per household, and don't adjust for number of people in the household. Would be interesting to know that number. Would also be interesting to have it broken down by single income and double income household of four.

If you're looking for income data, the Current Population Survey has lots of breakdowns. (I'll admit that I often don't find exactly the one I want.)
Family Income TOC

It so happens that "median income for a family of four" is used as an index for at least one federal program. So the Census publishes that number here: Income - Median Income for 4-Person Families, by State

I figured that $67,000 in 2005 probably converted to "about" $70,000 in 2008. If I had been a little more careful with the math, I would have said $72,000.

[TickTock]

I did not know that. Thanks for the link!

Interesting - so median family of four income is somewhere around $72,000 - assuming a 20% tax burden, that's $4,800 /mo - which is towards the low end of Upper Middle Class for all households.

[Running_Man]

Interesting to note that average houshold income (median) for 4 has only increased at 1.5 percent per year since 2000 - 2005

[FIREd]

According to the wiki article we are upper class and, actually, in the top 5%. But I don't feel like it, mostly because we LBYM and save so much of our income. Based on "social class" we would be upper middle class according to Gilbert and Thompson's classification and middle class according to Beeghley's classification. Quite a wide range! So it looks like people still disagree on what middle class means.

Also notice that the median number of income earners per households is 2 for the two highest quintiles but only 1 for the three lowest. So it seems to imply that nowadays it takes two paychecks to move up the social ladder.

[Walt34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moemg That's a resonable size house in a lot of places it would have cost way more than $400,000 . Sometimes I think some of this board is in La La land about house prices in other areas .

Location is everything. We're in a 5-year-old 1750 sf house wi/2 car garage in a golf course community, it backs up to a creek and beyond that a flood plain that can never be built on. Here, houses like that are now going for about $280K.

Put the same house/similar setting in Bethesda, MD just north of Washington, DC and you're looking at maybe $4-5 million.

[EarlyRetiree1978]

This thread has me frightened to death to start a family but I eventually will.
Reading this board has made me conscious that I MUST save as much now before I get married and have kids.

Unfortunately these people will be hitting rock bottom in no time.

My expenses are below.
$5,100 - Net Pay (after taxes, paying healthcare, and putting $1291 into 401K each month (for 15.5 yearly max))

$1,341 - Mortgage, Taxes, & Insurance (on 2 bedroom Condo)
$300 - Groceries and supplies
$200 - Gas
$100 - Car Ins
$150 - Electricity & Gas
$169 - Condo Fee (Includes water)
$71 - Cell Phone
$416 - Roth IRA (Will be eligible this year)
$500 - Discretionary Spending (saving for travel, going out to a bar once a week, etc)

$3,247 - Total

$1,853 - Net Savings
The net savings each month goes to my taxable brokerage account.

Currently have 6 months base expenses saved (~14k), could lower expenses even lower (Romane Noodles, etc) if looking for a new job (as I too am in IT.)

[brewer12345]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EarlyRetiree1978 Reading this board has made me conscious that I MUST save as much now before I get married and have kids.

Absolutely the smartest thing you can do for yourself long term is exactly that.

[Milton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 Absolutely the smartest thing you can do for yourself long term is exactly that.

Not having children in the first place would be even smarter.

[Patrick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EarlyRetiree1978 Reading this board has made me conscious that I MUST save as much now before I get married and have kids.

#2) Don't get married.
#3) Don't have kids. You will have a MUCH better retirement.

[Meadbh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick #2) Don't get married. #3) Don't have kids. You will have a MUCH better retirement.

True, until you become dependent. Then you are on your own or paying for care unless you have kids to help you.

[brewer12345]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milton Not having children in the first place would be even smarter.

Different strokes.

Let's not get into that one, eh?

[Urchina]

Our monthly budget (not including savings) is about $5500 a month, and we live in a very high COL area. Part of the way we keep our budget low is by making trade-offs (and I suspect most of us do). For example, we have two little kids and yet live in a 900-sq-ft condo. This keeps our house payment, taxes and HOA fees at around $2600/month. We figure that we can stay here until the kids are 6 and 4, respectively, and just need more room.

We also have two cars -- a luxury my parents didn't have when I was little, and we were squarely middle-class (my dad had a professional job, my mom stayed home).

To the OP: $600/month for a car seems like a lot, though I can understand how you got there based on past experiences. As an alternative, I used to have an '83 Volvo sedan that cost me $100/month, including repairs, gas, and insurance. Had the car for 13 years until it failed smog a couple of years ago and the state paid me $1000 to junk it.

And as for getting married / having kids -- if life were just about the money, we'd all ride the bus and be single (or DINKS).

[EarlyRetiree1978]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadbh True, until you become dependent. Then you are on your own or paying for care unless you have kids to help you.

Correctly planning for retirement should mean you would not need to depend on your kids. I think the biggest gift I could give my kids (bigger then paying for there college education) is being independent during retirement and not having to smooch off them.

I love kids so I eventually will have them. Just fear all that goes along with them. I ESPECIALLY fear divorce. A prenup will take care of that though.

[Patrick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadbh True, until you become dependent. Then you are on your own or paying for care unless you have kids to help you.

Believe me, the kids will cost you WAY more than paying for your own care or purchasing LTC insurance. They're the gifts that keep on taking.

[Milton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 Different strokes.

No, it's not really a subjective issue. From a purely financial perspective, having children is almost always the worst decision any person can make.

[Bestwifeever]

Quote:

From a purely financial perspective, having children is almost always the worst decision any person can make.

On t

[Running_Man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milton No, it's not really a subjective issue. From a purely financial perspective, having children is almost always the worst decision any person can make.

At what point in life would a society, dictated by finance incentives, implementing laws which would not allow for the birth of any children affect the quality of a 43 year old early retiree's life?

Every child raised correctly will be a contributing member to society and provide the brainpower and brawnpower to enable an older retiree who has saved his time in the form of money to give in compensation to other's children for their time and therefore all benefit financially from every productive child.

Therefore, since it appears obvious to me that without children to replenish the workplace and increase the population to provide for the inherent growth in value of stocks that most astute retirees count on retirement would not be possible without them, they all must be contributing value in excess of the amount I earned in my life since the increase in stock value comes from the growth they make possible.

[barbarus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TickTock Lower limits for: Second quintile (Lower Middle Classs) $18,500/yr = $1,542/mo Third quintile (Middle Class) $34,738/yr = $2,895/mo Fourth quintile (Upper Middle Class) $55,331/yr = $4,611/mo Fifith quintile (Upper Class) $88,030/yr = $7,336/mo

These may well represent the numeric quintiles, but the labels are manure. A family or even an individual earning $90K is in NO WAY upper class. Some clueless prole uploaded this to Wiki.

One needs to read Class by Paul Fussell before they can even begin to comment on the class structure of Western society.

[FIREd]

My wife and I don't have any kids by choice. Our decision was not based upon financial considerations but rather upon the fact that, objectively, neither of us would make a good parent. That being said the fact we don't have kids will tremendously contribute to our ability to FIRE at a rather young age. But I would caution anyone against the risk of foregoing parenthood for purely financial reasons. They might regret it later. So I think it is a very personal choice and I respect other people's decision to have kids or not, even when they don't respect mine.

[Running_Man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbarus These may well represent the numeric quintiles, but the labels are manure. A family or even an individual earning $90K is in NO WAY upper class. Some clueless prole uploaded this to Wiki. One needs to read Class by Paul Fussell before they can even begin to comment on the class structure of Western society.

That would be the New York Times : here is the link to the article that WIKI uses, you can plug in your own information to see where you rate in the country. Use 2005 numbers though: From what I see by inflation that would correlate to about 97,000 in todays dollars

Graphic: How Class Works - New York Times