Cars - A Basic Calculation

[R.H.]

Hyperborea . . . we pay road tax each year in the Spring and it is about $75 for cars with engines of less than 2000cc displacement. I believe the "sha-ken" you refer to are the fees collected when Japanese citizens have their cars inspected every two years. These fees are high, i.e., in excess of $1,000. All those serving in Japan under the Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) have their vehicles inspected on-base for about $35 every two years. The only other fees we incur is the yearly road tax ($75 for my Bluebird) and insurance. Japan has compulsory insurance (JCI) which is about $250 every two years. We are also required to carry "supplemental insurance" which boosts the cost of insurance up to about $350/year per vehicle. We are only permitted to have one vehicle per licensed driver (plus a motorcycle).

This is why my wife and I consider this to be used-car paradise. The cost of acquiring and operating a high quality used car here is extremely cheap as compared to the costs we have incurred in the past in the States.

 

[FlowGirl]

This is why my wife and I consider this to be used-car paradise.  The cost of acquiring and operating a high quality used car here is extremely cheap as compared to the costs we have incurred in the past in the States.

That's for sure! Two years ago when my husband was stationed in Okinawa he paid $200 for his van and another $300 in repairs during 6 months of use. After the 6 months he renewed the JCI at around $300, used it another 6 months and sold it to an incoming officer for his original $200. Total cost only about $600 for the year. I've heard that Okinawa is a major dumping ground for used cars from the mainland, so I'm sure that helps.

 

[Hyperborea]

I believe the "sha-ken" you refer to are the fees collected when Japanese citizens have their cars inspected every two years.  These fees are high, i.e., in excess of $1,000.  All those serving in Japan under the Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) have their vehicles inspected on-base for about $35 every two years.

Ok that explains it. Everybody else (non US military) has to pay the shaken (road worthiness - essentially a road use tax) not just Japanese citizens. That makes the normal cost of owning and operating a vehicle a lot more than the special deal that you are getting.

One of my plans for retirement is to buy a little "keiyon" car (660cc or smaller engine) and drive around Japan for 6 months or so and see all of the out of the way places. If I get it at maybe 6 years old with 6 months to 1 year of shaken left on it then it should go for very little.

I've also been wondering about buying a motorcycle and sidecar for a year or so tour of Europe after I retire. Not enough information on this one yet though.

 

[Shredder]

I had a 80 ford PU that I drove 12 yr average cost less than $1000 per yr including engine overhall, it only needed valves, but what the hey, figured I was in it anyway and I did it myself. Last car was a 96 subaru outback, cost average over 7 yr was over $2000 per yr. Good car but was burning oil when I traded it in. And it was a major pain to do mantainence as the subaru dealer was about 80 mi away from here. Only local dealers are US brand cars and trucks. Now I'm in a 03 ford escape that I bought new, due to low used price I may have to keep it forever for it to be a good deal. I like it and the 4WD is important around here in the winter. But I miss my pickups and may get one again at some point..........Shredder

 

[shanna]

1986 Honda Civic Wagon, purchased in 1995 for $3500, had 90K miles; bought it from dealer, who had just replaced the timing belt and front axle before I bought it.

Excluding tires, tune ups and oil changes, average annual repairs < $100/ year.

Total cost of owning = $3500 + $1000 repairs = $4500

Average annual cost $4500/ 9 years = $500/ year

 

[John Galt]

Hi Shanna. Very impressive car expense numbers (proves a point
I've made many times). Bet you've got
Cut-Throat beat

JG

 

[johnblake]

In 1992 I bought a new Civic for $9,600. In 1998 the car was destroyed in an accident (no driver/passengers inside). Car had around 70,000 miles. The only repairs ever done were oil changes, and possibly a tune-up (can't recall). The insurance company gave me 'blue book' -- $6500. That's less than $500/year -- and I was driving a new car. I did however invest almost $10K for the priviledge.

My current car will not fare as well. It's about the same age but has lost around $8-$9K in value, and has required sightly more in repairs. It is a nicer car though.

 

[John Galt]

I made a vow long ago never to pay over 10K for a
vehicle again. I follow the pricing of used vehicles very
closely. It appears that I can go a long time
(forever?) without being in danger of cracking the
magic 10K limit.

JG

 

[John Galt]

Cut-Throat, you bring back memories. It's been a very
long time since I had any "back seat" experiences worth mentioning. There was a time though...............

JG

 

[retire@40]

It's been a very
long time since I had any "back seat" experiences worth mentioning.  There was a time though...............      
JG

Were you alone?

 

[John Galt]

Hello retire@40. That reminded me of a girl I used to date. "Betty" had a rep. Went on dates with the seat out of an old Buick strapped to her back.

Re. "Were you alone?" Once I thought I would write about
my adventures as a gentleman and a lover. Now, however it seems like too much work. Too bad really.
It's a hell of a story

JG

 

[AltaRed]

Cut-throat, I'm on your wavelength as well. Judiciously managed finances to be able to retire FI when I want to. Bought my first Japanese luxury vehicle, a 2000 I30 Infiniti, in early 2003 with 16,000 miles on it and have fallen in love with that class of performance, reliability and luxury. The vehicle has not cost me a cent in maintenance so far other than oil changes.

I plan on having an Infiniti, Lexus or equivalent through the rest of my 50's, 60's and hopefully 70's while I can enjoy them. Better to recall the memories of enjoyment than not have them at all. Some frugality remains though as I will probably settle for 300 series rather than 400 series.

 

[Craig]

Spent most of my career in the retail auto business, and people in the industry know the best deal is to buy slightly used cars, and drive them into the ground. We love the folks that need a new car every couple of years.

We violated that rule recently by buying a base Toyota Camry ... bulletproof car, but the incentives were such that used were not a better deal. Expect to drive that car for 10 years+.

Classic cars can work great, if you don't drive much ... can appreciate instead of depreciate. Doesn't work for most, because most folks need to put more miles on.

 

[AltaRed]

Craig, I find that there is so little annual depreciation on most Japanese cars that it pays to buy brand new and not buy the potential risk of someone else's abuse. So I recommend buying new in those cases.

However, I would certainly agree that buying slightly used works best for virtually all other makes after depreciation has taken its biggest bite.

 

[John Galt]

I followed the reverse of Cut-Throat's system. I drove
luxury and/or new cars until I ERed and then cut way back. Also, I had my fun in my youth with various sports cars
(Covette, Fiat Spyder, Triumph TR-4). My all time fun favorite though was the Maxda Miata. Cheap to buy and cheap to own. I'm pretty sure I will get another one at some point (but I'll stay well under my 10K limit).

JG

 

[mark]

We've only had one new car in 20 years of being married, a 2000 Ford Focus (most recalled car in america). Previously all our cars were acquired from family members at about 80000 miles and kept until about 130000 miles. Currently we have the Focus plus my 1985 f-150 pickup, fondly known as the "deathtrap". The nice thing about beater cars is liability only insurance and no worry about door dings. The bad thing is the 100lbs. of tools in the trunk so you can repair on the side of the road. And I can't hardly work on cars newer than 1978. I've debated if the best choice for me is to by new or almost new base models, which become the second car at about 80000 miles.

 

[John Galt]

It's a real disadvantage in ER not being at all handy.
I used to hire everything out, but the budget would
be busted if I did that now. I have very little mechanical
ability
even though my Dad, son and only brother seem so blessed. The cars just add to my angst. Currently
we have 206,000 miles on one and 148,000 miles on the other. I can install a battery or change a bulb. That's about it. And, I changed my last tire about 25 years ago. No more of that either. The upside is that it saves
a lot of my time for other stuff. As Clint Eastwood
said "A man's got to know his limitations."

JG

 

[BigMoneyJim]

JG, my favorite car was a Fiat Spider. Looked at Miatas, but they are too small for me. I have recently decided to find a recent model substitute convertible to consider buying later this year. The Mustang is a bit cramped...perhaps I'll check out the Mitsubishi Spider or a BMW convertible...

Or maybe I'll get an old Fiat. Off to eBay to check prices...

 

[John Galt]

Hey BigMoneyJim.............I am surprised to hear your
fav. was the FIAT Spyder. I bought it for my daughter,
but I drove it a lot. It was fun to drive and a real
head turner (ours was bright orange, plates said
SNKIST), but it spent about as much time in the shop as
it did on the road. The first time I took it in the mechanic says
"Do you know what FIAT stands for?" I said no.
He says, "Fix It Again Tony!" I thought that was cute.
Turned out to be true. In fact, I would say that it was
the most maintenance intensive car I ever owned.
Sure was fun to drive though.

JG

 

[BigMoneyJim]

JG, I did get comments from several guys that it was a "girl's car". I suppose a phallic Z car would've been more macho, but I was never one to succumb to peer pressure, especially when it conflicted with my own enjoyment. Come to think of it, I think even my Dad said something about the femininity of that Fiat...yet he drove one daily when I was a kid. Go figure.

I owned the car for 3 years, but it was only drivable 6 month total out of that time, the rest spend in the back yard with a broken crossmember. But it was fun, fun, fun to drive when it drove. And mine was bright red.

Aside from the broken crossmember I was able to maintain it myself. It had issues, but it wasn't too bad. I recall the starter went out, but I didn't fix it for two seeks because I could open the door, kick with my foot to get rolling and pop the clutch to start it! Yes, I kick-started my Fiat. In forward or reverse--it didn't matter how I parked.

I think this is the thread where I mentioned my fun car. The Fiat was it. I sold it for what I bought it for, and as much trouble as I had I didn't really put a lot of money into it. The crossmember fix was much, much cheaper than I had imagined and would have fixed it sooner if I had known.

By the way, the eBay prices are all over the place. I bet parts are really hard to find these days. They quit importing the Spider somewhere between 1982 and 1985. And here in Indiana I would wory about rust on a car such as this that would be hard to fix or replace.

 

[JOhn Galt]

Well, BigMoneyJim, your comment about a "Phallic Z car"
reminded me of a story. Once when my daughter's FIAT
was in the shop (the normal situation), I decided she needed something to drive (what a Dad! Right kiddies?) Anyway, I bought a small Chevy with a big
V8 from my son. I forget the model, but certainly
heavy on the testosterone. My daughter did not like
driving it. It was so torquey that you could break the tires loose on bare pavement if you were not careful, and it was loud. She was happy to get her FIAT back.
I have no idea what I did with the Chevy.

JG

 

[Nords]

Dumb question on buying new cars...

I haven't bought a new car since 1981 and I can't explain the answer to a seemingly simple question: How do dealers work the new car deals these days with loans and rebates?

Say that a $20K vehicle negotiation results in a $5K rebate and a zero-interest loan. Do you set up a zero-interest loan payment on the $20K amount and then get handed a $5000 rebate when you pick up the car? Or is the $5K rebate factored into the $20K price and the loan amortized on a $15K balance?

 

[BigMoneyJim]

I think they offer you the choice of cash back or apply to loan, but it's been a few years since I've been in a dealer's office, and I wasn't really shopping for new at the time. (That didn't stop them from trying to sell me new, of course...)

 

[Shredder]

Along the finance lines, do you know someone who does not even know how much they paid for the car/truck or for how long , they only know how much per month. I know people like that, scary huh? shredder

Now that I think of it, one of them is my wife!!

 

[bow-tie]

Re: Dumb question on buying new cars...

...Say that a $20K vehicle negotiation results in a $5K rebate and a zero-interest loan.  Do you set up a zero-interest loan payment on the $20K amount and then get handed a $5000 rebate when you pick up the car

Nords, I may be mistaken but all of the deals I hear about are either the rebate or the financing, but not both.  

It slays me to talk to dealers when it comes to buying a ride.  They never want it cut and dried.  They want to jockey either the price of the trade-in or the price of the car you want to buy, or both.  They never want to talk 'on the road' price.  I love to hear people say "Yeah, it was great, they gave me 5 grand for my Vega, with the floorboards rusted through and a rod knocking..."

Yikes...