Check stolen in the mail and cashed by thief

[ivinsfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski That is scary... do you realize the volume of commerce that is conducted via US mail? Is it possible to determine what bank and bank account the check was deposited to? If so, is that account still open? Who owns it? Follow the money. IIRC Walt spent some of his career chasing criminals like this. And if they can catch them the prosecutor might be able to add federal mail fraud to the charges.

The bank involved isn't going to give you any information..after all they F'ed up. I disagree about mail safety,I think it's plenty safe.

[RetiredHappy]

I mail checks through USPS all day long and have never had a problem nor thought it could be a problem. I would not point a finger at USPS for this incident.

[savory]

Our issue was not related to theft but the charity we sent it to did not recognize the 'client'. the check was sent by Fidelity through an IRA. I guess the charity thought this was some type of payment or some other confusion was happening at their office. They returned the check.

Once we learned the check was returned and we understood the problem, we called the organization and told them they will be receiving a check from Fidelity and it is a donation from us. The second time appears to be a charm.

[yakers]

After having TWO checks washed in a couple years (and one was RE tax!) I now only mail checks personnally at a USPS office never a mail box. I filed claims with the USPS and local law enforcement but once the bank eventually assumed the loss (or recovered?) I could learn nothing more. I asked the bank and LE why this was happening, I grew up in a sh!t part of Chicago and this didn't happen. They said its because its so easy to do and often the bank does not feel it is worth pursuing.

[CRLLS]

What a horrible event. We've never had a check stolen. I can't imagine what it would take to get it cleared up. In a transaction I was dealing with a few years back, my bank told me there is no payment method that can not be reversed if fraud has taken place.

Now a related question for all you tax experts out there. I am curious. Can the OP still claim the donation on his taxes? He sent the money in good faith. The charity did not receive it. Just wondering.

[RobbieB]

Yeah, I think it was someone at the charity that stole the dough. Not a fault of USPS.

[Bamaman]

There's a reason that account numbers are listed when checks are endorsed and deposited. Numbers on the back of the check tell what account they went into--so a bank can charge back that check to the account it was deposited into originally.

[pb4uski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan The bank involved isn't going to give you any information..after all they F'ed up. I disagree about mail safety,I think it's plenty safe.

Perhaps not, but if law enforcement contacts them inquiring about it in relation to an investigation of a possible fraud, I think they will cooperate.

[plex]

Not that unusual, had a higher end desktop stolen from Fedex recently. Similar to checks, those things contain video cards worth $1k+ on the black market. Dell learned their lesson and made sure to send the next one in an unmarked box with faster shipping so it wouldn't sit somewhere over the weekend. It required a lot of updates to dell on my part since Fedex and the other carriers love to just mark it as unknown until a certain amount of time then suddenly stamp it delivered.

Then a few months later had a cheap blood pressure monitor through USPS stolen, that time, USPS only marked down the entirely wrong zip code as the delivered address.

[mrfeh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sengsational If I had to guess, I'd say it could just have likely been an 'inside job' at the charity as it could be theft from while the check was in the possession of the USPS.

+1

I don't understand the assumption that the check was stolen from USPS.

[JoeWras]

Charities are sitting ducks when it comes to receiving mail! Don't assume it is an "inside job" either! There are many weaknesses in the system. Let me give you my story.

My Donor Advised Fund check to my church never made it to the church. It turns out, some other donation checks didn't make it either. After some investigation on the matter, it turns out that thieves were stealing from the church's mailbox on Saturday.

This is not a USPS problem. This is not an "inside job" church problem. This is a thievery problem. Blame the thieves.

The church's mailbox is in plain site of the administrator, so they thought they were OK on this problem. They had someone pick up mail on Saturday. But there was always a window with mail sitting there. Thieves lifted mail during that window. So the solution was that the USPS now holds all Saturday mail. The much maligned USPS is being very helpful here.

The same can happen with other charities, especially if their business address doesn't have a secure mailbox. Some don't or can't. Thieves apparently steal mail from charities because: 1) Some people send cash, 2) Checks can be washed.

We live in a sick society.

[ivinsfan]

JW stealing cash from a mailbox is one thing. Signing and depositing a 2K check in a bank is another thing. OK, AFAIK anyone can get a PO box...if you aren't going to be careful enough to do that, you don't get my money...

[ivinsfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski Perhaps not, but if law enforcement contacts them inquiring about it in relation to an investigation of a possible fraud, I think they will cooperate.

Don't hold your breath waiting for law enforcement. See the banks will make everyone whole so it's basically a victimless non violent crime. That's how they will look at it anyway.

[JoeWras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan JW stealing cash from a mailbox is one thing. Signing and depositing a 2K check in a bank is another thing. OK, AFAIK anyone can get a PO box...if you aren't going to be careful enough to do that, you don't get my money...

It isn't always that simple, ivansfan. Especially for smaller charities that take delivery of goods.

[ivinsfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeWras It isn't always that simple, ivansfan. Especially for smaller charities that take delivery of goods.

I disagree it's the duty of a charity to safeguard their donations

[Walt34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan Don't hold your breath waiting for law enforcement. See the banks will make everyone whole so it's basically a victimless non violent crime. That's how they will look at it anyway.

It's not quite that simple, and it most definitely is NOT a "victimless crime". The bank that cashed/negotiated the check is the entity that is going to end up holding the bag on the loss. So the bank and the bank's shareholders are in fact the victims. And we all pay slightly higher interest rates to make up for those and similar losses.

Next comes the issue of whether it is worth the bank's (paid employee) time to further investigate and prosecute. In order to prosecute this the law enforcement agency has to be able to put a warm body on the witness stand to testify that an entity (the bank in this case) sustained a financial loss. That warm body is of course a bank employee on paid time. Then the government has to prove that the accused did it. Even if successful prosecution takes place and the judge orders complete restitution (which is a dice roll) if the bad guy has a negative net worth anyway chances of recovery are about zero.

Therefore, why would the bank, being good stewards of the shareholder's resources, throw good money after bad in paying an employee or two to spend several days researching the details of this and then showing up in court? There's just no upside for the bank in following through on it.

Some banks do (or did when I was working) have a policy of following through and prosecuting on these cases when possible. But the majority do not and the reasons are easy to understand.

[Brat]

Here is my stolen check story:

DD is the CFO of a VC. Several years ago an investor sent a check addressed to the VC. The check was stolen from a mailbox and the 'pay to the order of' was altered to the (assume) name of the thief. The thief presented the check at a casino in Las Vegas for chips, then he cashed the chips in. The check was declined at the investor's bank.

The investor told DD that the thief's body was found in the Nevada desert.

[Walt34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brat The investor told DD that the thief's body was found in the Nevada desert.

That's always a risk when forging the wrong guy's checks....

[ivinsfan]

Walt of course I know it costs the bank money I'm saying it's going to get pushed behind all the other crimes that include human victims. Not saying it's right but it's reality.

[Brat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt34 That's always a risk when forging the wrong guy's checks....

It is my daughter and the investor's* belief that the fellow who cashed the check at the casino settled the score. It isn't smart to cash a forged check at a casino. They don't take returned checks gracefully.

*The investor was out of the country when this happened and he suffered no loss because the bank didn't honor the check.