China and the Final War for Resources

[Helen]

Here's an interesting read. I found this link at Mish's board on the Motley Fool.

http://www.321energy.com/editorials/...ton020905.html

-helen

[lazyday]

i didn't make it through much of this, but have to wonder if China really would want to destroy the US economy. I'd think it would be devastating to them in both short and long term. If their actions put the US economy into a "tail spin" it would likely cause a worldwide depression, damaging their own economy as well.

[Olav23]

There's an interesting documentary about the end of peak oil. Good watch! and scary. Called End of Suburbia. There is a teaser here:

http://www.endofsuburbia.com/

[unclemick]

Soooo - they've updated the 1973 version - from that oil crisis I think an Englishman wrote that one.

Still waiting - heh, heh, heh.

Changes happen - but like the slowly boiled frog - they are so gradual we don't notice.

New Orleans RE section occasionally has an article or two about retired suburbanites moving back into the city - and bringing money - real estate people like that - presumably they use less gas also.

[Olav23]

Oh, I'll have to check into that. Sounds interesting! (Just to compare)

I think most geological engineers agree about Hubert's Peak. And the general consesus is only between 5-25 years difference, if I'm not mistaken. Something like 2007-2030 or so for peak production and then reduction.

The movie is interesting in that they go through things we don't think about, like Pesticides in food production being petroleum based, trucking of the food, etc. It's one thing to consider paying 3$ at the pump, another thing to think about paying 6$ a head of lettuce!

[wildcat]

Didn't people predict similar circumstances with other countries....Soviet Union, Japan when it was kicking butt, etc

[Telly]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildcat Didn't people predict similar circumstances with other countries....Soviet Union, Japan when it was kicking butt, etc

Yup! The Japanese were "buying up everything" here, too. We sold them lot's of overpriced real estate. Should have sold them even more*

Saw that the Chinese appliance mfgr Haier dropped out of making a bid for Maytag. Darn! Now just need to get my favorite appliance mfgr Whirlpool to drop out.

I think China will be reaching some very difficult times ahead. Nature seems to provide counter-acting forces in systems. Totalitarian government, that is in a symbiotic relationship with a very large capitalist nation (us) to buy its output.
Meanwhile, cost of production rules, as Mexico and Korea, et al, have discovered. They had some grand plans that fizzled as batch mfgrs pulled out to go to Singapore, Malaysia, etc.
While this is going on, China is changing. We worry about the Bird Flu. They are getting the American Culture Flu... movies, clothes design and accessories, all bow to the Big Mac! Ah, maybe our main output is the corrosion of conformity (yeah, I know, but the phrase fits, I think).

How the powers that be in Beijing react to this evolving* situation is the key for me. Open up and change, and become a world citizen, whatever that means, or rally a disgruntled populace around an external "enemy", ala the Moamar Khadafy of old, or Ayatola Khomeni in 1977-on as a prime example.

Regardless, I expect that a continuing export of China will be people to America.

[Michael]

The difference between China and Japan is that Japan is a peaceful nation with no military aspirations. China has been rapidly building up its military, and is potentially very dangerous.

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telly They are getting the American Culture Flu... movies, clothes design and accessories, all bow to the Big Mac! Ah, maybe our main output is the corrosion of conformity (yeah, I know, but the phrase fits, I think). Regardless, I expect that a continuing export of China will be people to America.

Resistance is futile.* China will be assimilated... we need their payroll taxes to fix the Social Security problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The difference between China and Japan is that Japan is a peaceful nation with no military aspirations.* China has been rapidly building up its military, and is potentially very dangerous.

Just curious, Michael, have you ever been in a room with a group of Japanese & Korean people?* Or Chinese & Japanese?* Even second-generation American descendents of those cultures?* Statements like yours would sure cause a reaction in those social situations.*

Did you know that even today, 60 years after the end of WWII, the Korean Navy will not participate directly in exercises where the Japanese Navy is present?* The (American) Navy's RIMPAC exercise explicitly makes up two different "coalition" task forces to keep these two nations separate.* I can only imagine the planning conferences if the Chinese rolled up to the curb with their toys.

There's no such thing as a first-world country without military aspirations.* We're all equally dangerous, although some American technology is more dangerous than Chinese technology.

[Michael]

I am well aware of Japan's history, and the unwillingness of many of their victims to forgive them. Nevertheless, it is now China that is embarking upon a rapid military build up. The government the US set up in Japan is peaceful, while the dictatorship of the vanguard across the pond is not.

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael I am well aware of Japan's history, and the unwillingness of many of their victims to forgive them.* Nevertheless, it is now China that is embarking upon a rapid military build up.* The government the US set up in Japan is peaceful, while the dictatorship of the vanguard across the pond is not.

I hear ya, but after two decades of service I'd have to conclude that the U.S. buildup is at least on the same pro-rated scale as the Chinese. Yet somehow we're the "good" guys and they're not?

I spent most of that time memorizing scary features of the awesome Russian arsenal. When I deployed on a surveillance submarine I found out that "THE BEAR" was nowhere near as scary as years of NSA, DIA, CIA, and military intelligence had made it sound. But all those scary studies & alarmist testimony were quite lucrative for military-industrial spending (your tax dollars at work).

In the early 1990s the Japanese military was operating at least one covert data-collecting intelligence-gathering system of whose existence they had not informed their civilian government. So while the Japanese govt may indeed be "peaceful", I find it difficult to reach the same conclusion about their military...

FWIW I'm sure the American military is up to the same tricks.

[Michael]

Quote:

Yet somehow we're the "good" guys and they're not?

The Chinese government has tortured and killed vast numbers of their own citizens.* In many cases, their only "crime" was following a religion not approved by the government (such as Christianity).* It is estimated that 10 million Christians alone in China were tortured or killed for their beliefs. The US is not perfect, but at least they don't send secret police to imprison peaceful worshipers.

I don't mind the US spending more on defense than the rest of the world combined, as long as the government doesn't start slaughtering civilians for no good reason.* The mass slaughter in places such as China and the Sudan is pretty appalling.

Just keep the people in charge of China away from here. I don't trust them.

[unclemick]

Probably spelling it wrong - any old Cold Warriors remember:

Plausible Deniability

Us - do that? - nah!

Heh, heh, heh, heh, heh, heh - that's a sixer.

[Patrick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclemick2 Probably spelling it wrong - any old Cold Warriors remember: Plausible Deniability Us - do that? - nah! Heh, heh, heh, heh, heh, heh - that's a sixer.

I have no recollection of that . . . .

[REWahoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclemick2 Probably spelling it wrong - any old Cold Warriors remember: Plausible Deniability

Hmmmmmm..... I thought it was "Deniable Plausibility", but too many weeks sitting on alert probably fogged my memory. (Yep, I was SACumcised. )

REW

[Lazarus]

SAC --- Peace is Our Profession.

Anyone remember this?

[unclemick]

Yep

Along with - Duck and Cover, I'd rather be dead than Red, Spam in a can(Chuck Yeager), Too cheap to meter(nuclear power), --- and of course "Cookie, Cookie - lend me your comb."

Heh, heh, heh.

BTY - REW is right - I had it backasswards.

[MRGALT2U]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarus SAC --- Peace is Our Profession. Anyone remember this?

Are you kidding? I remember "War Bonds" and The "Bull Moose Party"

JG

[REWahoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarus SAC --- Peace is Our Profession. Anyone remember this?

Ah yes. Col. Bat Guano leading his troops against Gen. Jack D. Ripper, Wing Commader of Burpleson AFB...machine gun fire and ordinance exploding in the foreground...pull back to a view of the big "Strategic Air Command: Peace Is Our Profession" sign.

They just don't make movies like that any more....

REW

[Eagle43]

Yep, and I have often seen "the light at the end of the tunnel" while enjoying the smell of burning napalm in the morning.