Chip and PIN credit cards for Europe

[audreyh1]

Last week I used my new card in the Chip and Pin slot at the Walmart check out and the bill was $122. I swiped it first, but it detected it had a PIN and I had to put it into the slot at the base of the unit, but no PIN required, just signature.

Largest bill so far in Canada has been $81, and no PIN requested.

ETA

Today our Canadian host paid an $18 charge with his card and PIN was needed. He says he always needs a PIN when buying something.

Yeah - I think some of these minimum purchase rules are completely different in US versus other countries.

 

[audreyh1]

US financial institutions just don't want to give up that signature! Is it concerns about customer migration? Or something else? 'Cause the US public has been using debit cards with PINs for years. Maybe the problem is bringing a reader out to the table in a US restaurant so the customer can enter the PIN to complete the transaction. The migration is obviously going to be a loooong one.

The chip and pin issue might not have solved the Target data breach issue (that's not clear), BUT the chip does make it much harder to duplicate the credit cards. From what I read, credit card fraud is waaaaaaay down in Europe. I don't know if it's the chip or the pin.

Still you can't use a chip and pin card for online purchases - I mean it reverts to card number, CVC and expiration date, billing address, so seems like chip and pin credit cards would be just as vulnerable for online abuse if hackers collected the CVC.

 

[Alan]

US financial institutions just don't want to give up that signature! Is it concerns about customer migration? Or something else? 'Cause the US public has been using debit cards with PINs for years. Maybe the problem is bringing a reader out to the table in a US restaurant so the customer can enter the PIN to complete the transaction. The migration is obviously going to be a loooong one.

The chip and pin issue might not have solved the Target data breach issue (that's not clear), BUT the chip does make it much harder to duplicate the credit cards. From what I read, credit card fraud is waaaaaaay down in Europe. I don't know if it's the chip or the pin.

Still you can't use a chip and pin card for online purchases - I mean it reverts to card number, CVC and expiration date, billing address, so seems like chip and pin credit cards would be just as vulnerable for online abuse if hackers collected the CVC.

They have a thing called "verified by Visa " that many companies signed up for and our UK debit. card is registered so you have a password for online purchases. We've bought many things online in the UK using our UK card and get prompted for the password we set up on the card. I like that feature and wish US companies would adopt that standard.

 

[Corporateburnout]

For online purchases I use mostly my Citibank master card virtual account numbers that along with the CVC change every time I use the card. I have not had any issues with this card for the last 6 or 7 years.

 

[audreyh1]

For online purchases I use mostly my Citibank master card virtual account numbers that along with the CVC change every time I use the card. I have not had any issues with this card for the last 6 or 7 years.

This does not prevent someone from using the numbers from one of your real plastic cards for their online purchases. Much credit card fraud happens this way.

 

[Corporateburnout]

This does not prevent someone from using the numbers from one of your real plastic cards for their online purchases. Much credit card fraud happens this way.

I agree. It will only prevent hackers from getting the number online which is not as big of a risk, assuming one has a good online malware protection, as getting a hold of your credit card number in a restaurant.

 

[audreyh1]

They have a thing called "verified by Visa " that many companies signed up for and our UK debit. card is registered so you have a password for online purchases. We've bought many things online in the UK using our UK card and get prompted for the password we set up on the card. I like that feature and wish US companies would adopt that standard.

I use PayPal to buy from any unknown or smaller business site. Only my most trusted retailers see my credit card. I don't usually use a VISA anyway. I wonder if something is available for Fido AMEX.

 

[braumeister]

They have a thing called "verified by Visa " that many companies signed up for and our UK debit. card is registered so you have a password for online purchases.

MasterCard and Visa both have that system, and I'm signed up in both, but I do a lot of online commerce and have very seldom been asked to use it by US merchants.

 

[wanaberetiree]

I used a chip and pin card from SDFCU at metro terminals without a problem in Paris last year.

I will be in Paris next week and have BoA Chip card.
But I have no PIN assigned (I think)
So how will it work in Metro or toll machines?

 

[anethum]

I'd like to know whether people are getting a good foreign currency conversion rate on their PenFed chip credit cards.

I just found out that Bank of America, which has agreements with specific banks in various countries that allows customers to use those foreign banks' ATMs without incurring ATM fees, has started to charge a 3% foreign currency transaction fee. I guess I'll stick to Charles Schwab.

 

[Alan]

Today we parked at a pay and display car park in Winniepeg and the machine accepted credit cards but would not accept my Penfed CHIP and PIN. Tried various times, but our Canadian friend put in his card and it prompted him for a PIN as expected.

 

[audreyh1]

I will be in Paris next week and have BoA Chip card.
But I have no PIN assigned (I think)
So how will it work in Metro or toll machines?

It won't work in those automated machines, and any PIN assigned would be for cash advances/ATM only, with the associated fees.

 

[audreyh1]

Today we parked at a pay and display car park in Winniepeg and the machine accepted credit cards but would not accept my Penfed CHIP and PIN. Tried various times, but our Canadian friend put in his card and it prompted him for a PIN as expected.

Dang - that's frustrating.

 

[Alan]

Dang - that's frustrating.

One of the things I tried was to insert my Chip and signature Amex and it gave the message card not valid, which is to be expected since the symbols on the pay machine indicated Visa and MasterCard only.

 

[audreyh1]

I'd like to know whether people are getting a good foreign currency conversion rate on their PenFed chip credit cards.

I just found out that Bank of America, which has agreements with specific banks in various countries that allows customers to use those foreign banks' ATMs without incurring ATM fees, has started to charge a 3% foreign currency transaction fee. I guess I'll stick to Charles Schwab.

All VISA cards use the same foreign exchange rate.
What you want is a credit card with 0% foreign transaction fee. There are several such cards available.

 

[audreyh1]

One of the things I tried was to insert my Chip and signature Amex and it gave the message card not valid, which is to be expected since the symbols on the pay machine indicated Visa and MasterCard only.

Interesting! I have the PenFed VISA cash rewards card. I noticed a lot of systems in Europe had VISA logos but not AMEX.

 

[anethum]

All VISA cards use the same foreign exchange rate.
What you want is a credit card with 0% foreign transaction fee. There are several such cards available.

Thanks. I have a new PenFed w/chip 0% foreign transaction fee card.

 

[Alan]

I informed Penfed that the card never prompted for a PIN and here is their response and my response.

Thank you for contacting Pentagon Federal Credit Union.

Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused you. This
is not a known issue for our Chip/PIN cards. If the PIN you chose is not working
with your PenFed Platinum Visa Signature Card, we can mail you a new system
generated PIN. For security reasons, we cannot accept your request by e-mail.
Please contact a Member Service Representative for assistance at 1 800 247-5626
or 510 376-7328 from a Class A DSN phone line, 7 days a week during the
following hours:

Monday - Friday: 7:00 am to 11:00 pm ET
Saturday - Sunday: 8:00 am to 11:00 pm ET

The representative will verify your security code.


If you need further assistance, please contact us.

Thank you for your quick response. It is not that the PIN I generated does not work, it is that I am never prompted for a PIN, it behaves just like my Amex CHIP and signature card. In all the places in Canada that I used it, shops, museums etc, I would push it into the slot used for CHIP cards, it would then read and authorize the card without prompting for a PIN. In most cases I had to tell the shop assistant that the receipt printed required my signature. At the unattended kiosk for parking it would not prompt for a PIN and would not let me pay. My Canadian friend used his card and it prompted for his PIN as expected.


I really think that I have a CHIP and signature card since it behaves exactly like my Amex CHIP and signature card, and I just wanted to let you know as I expect you won't have many members traveling to locations with unattended kiosks that MUST have a PIN to work.

 

[Alan]

One more interchange.

Thank you for contacting Pentagon Federal Credit Union.


Again our apologies for the inconvenience, PenFed is currently working to
improve the ability of our Chip and PIN cards when used in Canada and other parts of the world. As this technology is fairly new in the United States, we have been using the recent period to perfect the technology with our cards.

Do you remember when attempting to make the purchase if the Kiosk displayed a specific error code or message as to why the authorization was declined?

Also, the reason you are never prompted for a Pin is because PenFed Visa Chip and Pin cards will first prompt you to sign. If the merchant does not accept a signature, the PenFed Visa Chip and Pin card will default to requiring the Pin.

If you need further assistance, please contact us.

Your explanation of why a signature is asked first sounds very reasonable and we certainly had no problem with machines where there was a cashier. With the car park I got no error message so I canceled the whole transaction and started over. Again no error message, the machine looked as if it was not reading the card, so I inserted my Amex CHIP card and got the message "Card not valid", which would be expected as the kiosk showed Visa and Mastercard symbols only. I started over fresh for a 3rd time and there was no error message again with the Penfed card, so our friend inserted his Canadian card and it prompted him to enter his PIN.


Hope this is helpful,

 

[NoiseBoy]

I just got back from spending a week in London on vacation. Before my trip I obtained what I thought was a chip & pin MasterCard from Citibank, although the letter only mentioned that the pin was good for cash advances. The card does have a chip on it.

I tried to use it twice in London and both times it just spit out a receipt for a signature. I quit trying to use it since that card does have a foreign transaction fee and my Visa, without a chip, doesn't. Fortunately, at least in London's tourist areas, I never had an issue using a swipe only CC or paying with cash. The automatic checkout machines at the Tesco (7-Eleven) even take cash, so if your destination is London I would not worry about having a working chip & pin CC.

 

[2B]

I will be in Paris next week and have BoA Chip card.
But I have no PIN assigned (I think)
So how will it work in Metro or toll machines?

I seldom use a credit card outside of the US. Typically, I only use them for hotels. I use a debit card to get cash from an ATM.

For the Paris metro you'll buy a book of "carnet" (10 individual tickets) at a Tobac shop which sell them. It's much faster and more reliable than trying to buy individual tickets at a metro stop. Metro stops are also frequently not staffed.

 

[audreyh1]

I did some training at the Drs office. I noticed their card reader on the counter had a chip slot. The lady told me to swipe my card. I asked - are you sure? There is a chip card slot. She didn't think that was for the chip on my card. Swiping wasn't accepted. I said - " just let me try this card slot and see if that works". Sure enough - it worked to their total amazement. They'd never seen a CC with a chip, and thought that slot was for something else. LOL!

 

[Koogie]

Here in Canada most credit cards have been chip/pin for a long time. However, the new trend is Tap and Go cards what have an RFID chip in them and require neither a PIN or a signature. You just waive them over the card reader at the checkout.
Of the dozen or so retail establishments we would frequent in a month, I would say 75% of them are now Tap and Go.
I still wonder about the fraud level with them but was generally okay with it since the Tap and Go limit has traditionally been $50
However, I notice now that a lot of places have upped the limit to $100

I reckon an identity thief could hit a few places and have a pretty good time with a $100 Tap and Go card before the good people at Mastercard caught up to them.

Mind you, it is incredibly convenient. You can get in and out of the grocery store in record time now.. convenience/fraud is the weigh off I guess.

 

[explanade]

US financial institutions just don't want to give up that signature! Is it concerns about customer migration? Or something else? 'Cause the US public has been using debit cards with PINs for years. Maybe the problem is bringing a reader out to the table in a US restaurant so the customer can enter the PIN to complete the transaction. The migration is obviously going to be a loooong one.

The chip and pin issue might not have solved the Target data breach issue (that's not clear), BUT the chip does make it much harder to duplicate the credit cards. From what I read, credit card fraud is waaaaaaay down in Europe. I don't know if it's the chip or the pin.

Still you can't use a chip and pin card for online purchases - I mean it reverts to card number, CVC and expiration date, billing address, so seems like chip and pin credit cards would be just as vulnerable for online abuse if hackers collected the CVC.

Banks or Visa and MC get more for processing signature verification than they do for PIN verification.

So they want to keep using signatures while the merchants want to use PIN.

 

[Chuckanut]

Hopefully, the consumer can easily change his or her PIN.