Chip and PIN credit cards for Europe

[Alan]

I got my PIN in the mail today for the new Penfed CHIP card I got a few days ago. It clearly states that this PIN is for use in ATM machines to receive cash. So, with the words "VISA Signature" on the front of the card and the PIN instructions today and past recent experience then I'm sure I have a Penfed CHIP and Signature card despite what their website and their rep says.

I listened to a BBC Moneybox program a few weeks back where they were warning about a spike in fraud where thieves see a "target" entering a PIN at a machine then either later steal the wallet or purse, and obtain cash from an ATM before the card is cancelled.

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustic23 I was on the USAA site yesterday and they said they would be replacing card with chip and pin, starting 2014 and would be complete by 2016. They also said if you were planning a trip to Europe the would replace your card on request now.

Looks good, and the USAA site clearly states CHIP and PIN, with instructions on how to use it.

http://content.usaa.com/mcontent/sta...ocs/126885.pdf

[Peter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan I got my PIN in the mail today for the new Penfed CHIP card I got a few days ago. It clearly states that this PIN is for use in ATM machines to receive cash. So, with the words "VISA Signature" on the front of the card and the PIN instructions today and past recent experience then I'm sure I have a Penfed CHIP and Signature card despite what their website and their rep says.

Alan, I don't think the 'signature' part refers to the card being a chip and signature type. The 'signature' branding appears on non chip cards as well. It's a minor benefits upgrade to standard Visa cards ... you supposedly get priority access to concerts, restaurants, etc. I did get a free blanket when we went to a Steely Dan concert a while back.

[audreyh1]

My BofA chip and signature VISA says signature, but my PenFed chip and pin cash rewards VISA says platinum in the same spot, so who knows.

Actually, the PIN they sent me says it can be used in any ATM. It doesn't say ONLY for ATM use.

AFAIK - I have the right card.

We opted for a system generated PIN. Maybe there is no difference.

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 My BofA chip and signature VISA says signature, but my PenFed chip and pin cash rewards VISA says platinum in the same spot, so who knows. Actually, the PIN they sent me says it can be used in any ATM. It doesn't say ONLY for ATM use. AFAIK - I have the right card. We opted for a system generated PIN. Maybe there is no difference.

The CHIP and PIn card I had that only worked as chip and signature said Platinum in the same spot but as I said above it wouldn't work in an unattended kiosk in Canada and never prompted for a PIN which is why they said it was a faulty CHIP and changed it. Now it says Signature where it once said Platinum, and I did opt for a system generated PIN as that is what the rep told me would work.

I don't expect it to work as CHIP and PIN in Australia, but I have a backup UK card that will work.

I surrender.

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan The CHIP and PIn card I had that only worked as chip and signature said Platinum in the same spot but as I said above it wouldn't work in an unattended kiosk in Canada and never prompted for a PIN which is why they said it was a faulty CHIP and changed it. Now it says Signature where it once said Platinum, and I did opt for a system generated PIN as that is what the rep told me would work. I don't expect it to work as CHIP and PIN in Australia, but I have a backup UK card that will work. I surrender.

Hi Alan

You said the one time that the car park machine you tried your card in said VISA or MasterCard only, and you had an American Express. And it did tell you invalid card. That makes sense if it didn't accept Amex. Do I have it right?

Thinking on it further, I'm not worried about the language in the PIN document as you would only have one PIN for a card, I would think, so it seems more likely that PenFed just uses some standard language in their PIN letters.

As far as I've read, some folks have been able to use the PenFed VISA chip and pin cards in some automated machines in Europe even though they require sig in manned locations, so things have worked in the past.

I'm glad I opted for system generated PIN. We'll find out when I get around to using it.

I expect the signature label just indicates level of service on your card, and is not related to signature only.

Audrey

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 Hi Alan You said the one time that the car park machine you tried your card in said VISA or MasterCard only, and you had an American Express. And it did tell you invalid card. That makes sense if it didn't accept Amex. Do I have it right?

Correct.

I tried the Penfed VISA twice and the machine just sat there with no message, but when I inserted my Amex CHIP and signature it rejected it with an "Invalid card" message. That told me the machine was reading the card, and was confirmed when my Canadian friend used his VISA card and it prompted for a PIN.

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Correct. I tried the Penfed VISA twice and the machine just sat there with no message, but when I inserted my Amex CHIP and signature it rejected it with an "Invalid card" message. That told me the machine was reading the card, and was confirmed when my Canadian friend used his VISA card and it prompted for a PIN.

OK - didn't realize you also had a PenFed VISA with chip. But if your PenFed VISA was chip and signature, it probably would not have worked anyway.

Anyway, I think you cleared up my confusion from some of you earlier posts.

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 OK - didn't realize you also had a PenFed VISA with chip. But if your PenFed VISA was chip and signature, it probably would not have worked anyway. Anyway, I think you cleared up my confusion from some of you earlier posts.

Just to summarize, this is my 3rd "CHIP and PIN" Penfed VISA card since October since the reps and website keep assuring me that they are CHIP and PIN but I've only ever had them work as CHIP and signature. Maybe I am just unlucky.

The following is the last e-mail I received before requesting my last card, the one that has VISA Signature stamped on the front of it.

Quote:

PenFed Member Service May 19 Thank you for contacting Pentagon Federal Credit Union. Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused you. This is not a known issue for our Chip/PIN cards. If the PIN you chose is not working with your PenFed Platinum Visa Signature Card, we can mail you a new system generated PIN. For security reasons, we cannot accept your request by e-mail. Please contact a Member Service Representative for assistance at 1 800 247-5626 or 510 376-7328 from a Class A DSN phone line, 7 days a week during the following hours: Monday - Friday: 7:00 am to 11:00 pm ET Saturday - Sunday: 8:00 am to 11:00 pm ET The representative will verify your security code. If you need further assistance, please contact us. Sincerely, Amber Frank Pentagon Federal Credit Union

[braumeister]

Just a quick note to update. I have two cards with chips:
a Visa from Andrews Federal Credit Union, and
a MasterCard from USAA Federal Savings Bank.

I've been looking forward to putting them through their paces. Just spent a few days in Iceland and then some days in Belgium.

The USAA MasterCard always functioned as a true chip & PIN card.

The Visa was schizophrenic about it. In unattended kiosks such as ticket machines in train stations, it was simply a true chip & PIN card. But when there was human interaction such as in a shop when buying something, it asked for a signature.

Of course my regular swipe ATM card was fine for getting local cash from machines.

[explanade]

USAA is US military or family of military?

[braumeister]

Quote:

Originally Posted by explanade USAA is US military or family of military?

No, that is just their insurance.
Anyone can open a bank account.

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braumeister Just a quick note to update. I have two cards with chips: a Visa from Andrews Federal Credit Union, and a MasterCard from USAA Federal Savings Bank. I've been looking forward to putting them through their paces. Just spent a few days in Iceland and then some days in Belgium. The USAA MasterCard always functioned as a true chip & PIN card. The Visa was schizophrenic about it. In unattended kiosks such as ticket machines in train stations, it was simply a true chip & PIN card. But when there was human interaction such as in a shop when buying something, it asked for a signature. Of course my regular swipe ATM card was fine for getting local cash from machines.

Good feedback, especially regarding the ATM's working with swipe cards.

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braumeister Just a quick note to update. I have two cards with chips: a Visa from Andrews Federal Credit Union, and a MasterCard from USAA Federal Savings Bank. I've been looking forward to putting them through their paces. Just spent a few days in Iceland and then some days in Belgium. The USAA MasterCard always functioned as a true chip & PIN card. The Visa was schizophrenic about it. In unattended kiosks such as ticket machines in train stations, it was simply a true chip & PIN card. But when there was human interaction such as in a shop when buying something, it asked for a signature. Of course my regular swipe ATM card was fine for getting local cash from machines.

The VISA is just showing its signature priority configuration. It only asks for a PIN if used in an unattended location. Most US chip and PIN cards are set up this way.

[EasyAsianFrog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braumeister No, that is just their insurance. Anyone can open a bank account.

I just tried to apply for the USAA World Master Card, and was informed that credit cards are only available for military affiliates or family members of USAA insurance customers.

Sent from my DROID4 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

[explanade]

You'd think the banks would issue chip and PIN if their US card holders travel to foreign countries and found anything other than chip and PIN isn't accepted.

[FIREd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustic23 I was on the USAA site yesterday and they said they would be replacing card with chip and pin, starting 2014 and would be complete by 2016. They also said if you were planning a trip to Europe the would replace your card on request now.

Thanks for the info. I usually use the chip and pin card issued by my European bank. But I am worried that my account there might be closed in the future due to FACTA. Since I already bank at USAA, it would be a convenient alternative. I already have a USAA Mastercard, but that card has a fee on foreign transactions. Hopefully their chip and pin card does not.

[explanade]

BTW, has anyone found a good ATM card that doesn't impose fees for international ATM withdraws?

I've been using an Etrade card for years and looks like they've started imposing a 1% fee.

[gauss]

Quote:

Originally Posted by explanade BTW, has anyone found a good ATM card that doesn't impose fees for international ATM withdraws?

I believe that CapitalOne 360 checking (formerly Ing Direct) allows international ATM withdrawals with no international transaction fee.

-gauss

[EasyAsianFrog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by explanade BTW, has anyone found a good ATM card that doesn't impose fees for international ATM withdraws? I've been using an Etrade card for years and looks like they've started imposing a 1% fee.

Schwab Bank ATM refunds all the ATM fees globally at the end of each month.