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Old 12-27-2019, 01:55 PM   #41
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Speaking of eating/drinking, I step on the scale daily. Have not exceeded a BMI of 24 in several years.
Seems I've been climbing the BMI ladder! I don't expect to be at 24 again until partially through the cremation process.
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Old 12-27-2019, 02:18 PM   #42
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Level 3 for sure.

Levels 4 - not fully as we spend quite a bit on travel, don’t sweat the hotels paying up happily for nice accommodations, and fly first class when we find a good deal, but I can’t say we travel as much as we want whenever we want. We certainly could spend way way more on hotels and airfare but choose not to blow the budget. We have other constraints/obligations limiting our travel not mention that we don’t want to wear ourselves out. So we are still value conscious on our travel, even though we have upgraded luxury level significantly over the years.
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Old 12-27-2019, 02:56 PM   #43
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The levels of wealth defined in the OP article are ambiguous.

Level 4. Travel freedom: You travel when you want, how you want, and stay where you want.

What if I want to travel in a yacht? Forget about owning one. The operating costs of a yacht run more than $1M a year, and that is not even for the super yacht. Even chartering one may run $100K/week.

Consider even the lower level.

Level 3. Restaurant freedom: You eat what you want at restaurants regardless of the cost.

There are many nice restaurants with a prix fixe menu of $500-1000/person. Splurging there is not outside the budget of many people here for special occasions. But would you mind paying $9000 for a special pizza at a restaurant in Salerno? That will not bankrupt you, but do you want to pay that money to see what goes into that pizza to make it cost so much?
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Old 12-27-2019, 06:07 PM   #44
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The article is too relative to be useful for me, e.g. does the ability to “spend frivolously on vacations” include a full year at the Four Seasons? If so, I’m not “Level Four.” I prefer Radical Personal Finance podcaster Joshua Sheets’ levels:


Stage 1 – Financial Solvency. You can support yourself, without help or handouts from others, and you’re current on your bills.

(Many people think that financial management stops at Stage 1.)

Stage 2 – Financial Stability. You can support yourself, your bills are current, and you hold some savings.

Stage 3 – Debt Freedom. You’re debt-free, in addition to the points above. It’s your choice whether or not you want to include your mortgage within this definition.

Stage 4 – Financial Security. You have enough investment income to cover basic, bare-bones living costs.

Stage 5 – Financial Independence. You have enough investment income to cover your current lifestyle.

Stage 6 – Financial Freedom. – You have enough investment income to cover BIG dreams and upgrade your lifestyle.

Stage 7 – Financial Abundance. – You have enough investment income that you cannot possibly spend this money. Vast amounts of your money will outlive you, and your focus is wise stewardship of this wealth so that you can leave a beautiful legacy.
Thanks for the above list. It's quite good.

I'm approaching level 7 and hoping to nail it as my kids come fully of age over the next few years.

My favourite similar thing is by the very astute Morgan Housel:

https://www.collaborativefund.com/bl...-independence/
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Old 12-27-2019, 10:22 PM   #45
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I am the black sheep in the FIRE meadow

My priorities must be screwed up. To me, the Dream House is far more important and attainable (since we already have it) than a vacation.

Quote:
Level 4. Travel freedom: You travel when you want, how you want, and stay where you want.
I will never reach Level 4 no matter how much money I have. I only travel when I don't want to, i.e., if it were up to me I'd stay home.

OTOH, DW loves to travel. Once she hands in her notice, we are certain to visit lots of exotic places...

...places I'd be perfectly happy to learn about by watching the Travel Channel, after which I'd go to sleep in my own bed every night.
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Old 12-28-2019, 01:35 AM   #46
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Thanks for the above list. It's quite good.



I'm approaching level 7 and hoping to nail it as my kids come fully of age over the next few years.



My favourite similar thing is by the very astute Morgan Housel:



https://www.collaborativefund.com/bl...-independence/


I really like that list, too. Thanks for sharing. #9 makes me think. #10 will be a bit controversial, as all my models show that keeping the low interest mortgage is better financially long term. I think I’m either at #8 or possibly at #11. Good luck!
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Old 12-28-2019, 01:58 AM   #47
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The article is too relative to be useful for me, e.g. does the ability to “spend frivolously on vacations” include a full year at the Four Seasons? If so, I’m not “Level Four.” I prefer Radical Personal Finance podcaster Joshua Sheets’ levels:


Stage 1 – Financial Solvency. You can support yourself, without help or handouts from others, and you’re current on your bills.

(Many people think that financial management stops at Stage 1.)

Stage 2 – Financial Stability. You can support yourself, your bills are current, and you hold some savings.

Stage 3 – Debt Freedom. You’re debt-free, in addition to the points above. It’s your choice whether or not you want to include your mortgage within this definition.

Stage 4 – Financial Security. You have enough investment income to cover basic, bare-bones living costs.

Stage 5 – Financial Independence. You have enough investment income to cover your current lifestyle.

Stage 6 – Financial Freedom. – You have enough investment income to cover BIG dreams and upgrade your lifestyle.

Stage 7 – Financial Abundance. – You have enough investment income that you cannot possibly spend this money. Vast amounts of your money will outlive you, and your focus is wise stewardship of this wealth so that you can leave a beautiful legacy.
Another up vote for a good list but ...

... I have to respectfully disagree with Stage 3 - Debt Freedom. Personally I like using modest amounts of debt for investment purposes and as an inflation hedge and have no plans to change that strategy. For us being debt free is not a goal and is not relevant to our financial position.
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Old 12-28-2019, 05:01 AM   #48
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Level 3. Restaurant freedom: You eat what you want at restaurants regardless of the cost.

There are many nice restaurants with a prix fixe menu of $500-1000/person. Splurging there is not outside the budget of many people here for special occasions. But would you mind paying $9000 for a special pizza at a restaurant in Salerno? That will not bankrupt you, but do you want to pay that money to see what goes into that pizza to make it cost so much?
Well as it turns out that’s not what I want.

I remember reading reviews of a few French Michelin starred restaurants in places we were visiting and they usually had these super fancy tasting menus that were quite expensive. Well, I really didn’t want that kind of eating, even though we could have easily paid for it. The ones I saw didn’t exceed €300 per person and were often under €200. Also reservation requirements were weeks or more in advance....

The travel level is different for me. I’ve seen several places that I’d love to stay but haven’t been willing to splurge on yet. As we get older that may well change......
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Old 12-28-2019, 05:12 AM   #49
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Stage 7 I would amend to you have a high enough liquid net worth that you can’t possibly spend it in your lifetime. Whether it generates even more income is immaterial. I knew some folks in the $80M+ category a >couple of decades ago, and to me they fell into this category. These folks must spend a lot of effort on estate planning. I know some of them were very generous donating to causes they believed in. Gosh, I remember visiting a nice brand new visitor’s center somewhere and realizing as we exited that one of these folks had contributed the funds - wow!

Another simply chartered jets whenever he wanted to travel thus resolving any airport hassle issues.

Definitely a different universe than mine.
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Old 12-29-2019, 09:47 AM   #50
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Level 3, Stage 4.

But the most expensive restaurant we've visited in the last several years was the local Brazilian Steakhouse (Churrascaria).

IIRC, $35/person inclusive (except for alcohol)...but I had a Groupon for $57 for dinner for 2 that included a decent bottle of wine.
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Old 12-29-2019, 10:53 AM   #51
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The Fogo de Chao where I am charges $40 for lunch and $56 for dinner. Alcohol is of course extra, and pricey too. A glass of wine was $12, if I recall right.

I don't think the price is bad, but my wife eats so little she says it's a waste of money for her.

On the other hand, American steak houses charge $50 just for a filet. I like Fogo de Chao better, because I get a variety of meats.
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Old 12-29-2019, 11:21 AM   #52
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The Fogo de Chao where I am charges $40 for lunch and $56 for dinner. Alcohol is of course extra, and pricey too. A glass of wine was $12, if I recall right.

I don't think the price is bad, but my wife eats so little she says it's a waste of money for her.

On the other hand, American steak houses charge $50 just for a filet. I like Fogo de Chao better, because I get a variety of meats.
If you sign up for their email reminders, they occasionally send out codes for $25 off dinner or $15 off of lunch...and it's NOT one per table, so my spouse and I each used our codes for our last visit. Plus, a new one had opened and we had coupons for free desserts!

(Our prices are about the same, too. And yes, I tipped on the un-discounted total!)
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Old 12-29-2019, 01:39 PM   #53
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Between stage 3 and 4. I can go pretty much where ever I want, but not at all price levels. I doubt I will ever reach stage 4 and that's OK with me.
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Old 12-29-2019, 07:48 PM   #54
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If you sign up for their email reminders, they occasionally send out codes for $25 off dinner or $15 off of lunch...and it's NOT one per table, so my spouse and I each used our codes for our last visit. Plus, a new one had opened and we had coupons for free desserts!

(Our prices are about the same, too. And yes, I tipped on the un-discounted total!)
That's a huge discount. I assume that both you and your wife signed up at their Web site to get individual discounts.

You even have room for desserts after sampling all the meats? I only sampled a subset of their offerings, and was already in trouble at the end.
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Old 12-29-2019, 08:18 PM   #55
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That's a huge discount. I assume that both you and your wife signed up at their Web site to get individual discounts.
Right, two email addresses, two codes. We each have to show our code...you can print them out, but we do it on our phones.

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You even have room for desserts after sampling all the meats? I only sampled a subset of their offerings, and was already in trouble at the end.
You never want to try ALL the meats. Every time we go we joke (amongst ourselves, at home) about the chicken or the sausage: "Oh, man, who did you piss off to have to carry around the chicken??" And about not eating much earlier that day: "Don't fill up! You're in training!"

There are 3 or 4 I wait for, and if you let them know which ones, they'll track them down and send them your way sooner. They also have chimichurri and hot sauces that they only bring out upon request. :-d
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Old 12-29-2019, 09:18 PM   #56
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No, not all the meats. I am a red meat eater, so only beef and lamb. I am getting old, and while I think I still have a good appetite, it's more eyes than stomach. My wife eats just a couple of cuts.

My wife and I like to go to our favorite French restaurant more. The portion is more manageable, yet I have enough after dessert.


PS. Come to think of it, it is only at that French restaurant that I ever have room for dessert.
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Old 12-29-2019, 09:28 PM   #57
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And speaking of not wanting to spend more even if you can, that favorite French restaurant of mine has a "serious" restaurant side, and a separate bistro wing. We always eat at the bistro wing. The decor is informal, and very European (the owner is French). The food comes from the same kitchen, the price is lower, and the atmosphere is lively. The restaurant side is quiet and somber.

Why pay more if paying less puts you in a happier mood?
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Old 12-30-2019, 05:52 AM   #58
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Travel for us depends on where and how far. We won’t travel 8 hours on a flight in coach anymore. Too uncomfortable in many aspects. We typically travel Business international, but are still using points so costs are around $1400/ticket. Regular pricing is typically $4500. Vacation for us is not about spending as little as possible, but certainly not as much as possible. Yet I know people that travel to India in coach, 18 hours of flying. But we fly coach to FL from Virginia. First is too much per minute for that.
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Old 12-30-2019, 07:02 AM   #59
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Travel for us depends on where and how far. We won’t travel 8 hours on a flight in coach anymore. Too uncomfortable in many aspects. We typically travel Business international, but are still using points so costs are around $1400/ticket. Regular pricing is typically $4500. Vacation for us is not about spending as little as possible, but certainly not as much as possible. Yet I know people that travel to India in coach, 18 hours of flying. But we fly coach to FL from Virginia. First is too much per minute for that.


+1, especially “Vacation for us is not about spending as little as possible, but certainly not as much as possible.”

We’ve reached that point, too, though we find Delta’s Comfort + class gives us what we need, i.e. legroom, a little more service and distance from big families and less-seasoned travelers. We just got back from Paris last night and had two seats on our own row in the front of Comfort + class with just the bulkhead in front of us. That provided even more room and a tad more privacy, so we’ll aim for that going forward on the major flights.
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Old 12-30-2019, 03:51 PM   #60
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The Fogo de Chao where I am charges $40 for lunch and $56 for dinner. Alcohol is of course extra, and pricey too. A glass of wine was $12, if I recall right.

I don't think the price is bad, but my wife eats so little she says it's a waste of money for her.

On the other hand, American steak houses charge $50 just for a filet.

I like Fogo de Chao better, because I get a variety of meats.
Yep, that's the appeal to me as well.

Plus I got a whole bottle of wine to myself (DW does not drink)...though she said I was "a little silly" by the end of the meal...
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