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Old 11-06-2017, 10:34 AM   #241
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SS will go according to the way the law is written with the 23% haircut. The politicians will just stand back and let it happen. The voters won't have a say. It's already been said. So put that into your plan and consider what that will mean to a 17 year older you.
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:14 AM   #242
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Failure of imagination. They imposed income tax on SS benefits in 1984.

It'll happen like these things always do. First a small tax (or cap) that hardly anybody gets hit with. Then a few years later they tax/cap gets lowered, so a few more people get hit. Then a few years later the amount that is subject to tax/cap gets increased.

Government only do this every single time.
But to be realistic rayvt if someone put after-tax contributions in a deferred annuity for 30+years and then annuitized it then a portion of each annuity benefit payment received representing growth would be taxed and the portion representing return of principal would be tax-free.... and given such a long compounding period it would be a substantial portion of the benefit... 85% is probably in the ball park.... especially since half of your benefits are based on employer contributions that you never paid taxes on just to begin with.
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Old 11-07-2017, 01:25 PM   #243
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SS is a voter guaranteed. Too many retirees collecting that vote. I can not imagine a politician getting elected or re elected that did anything to limit SS for the 65+ crowd.


+1
And don't forget the votes of our kids if they think we're moving in with them!
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Old 11-07-2017, 02:42 PM   #244
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+1
And don't forget the votes of our kids if they think we're moving in with them!
That's one powerful threat!
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Old 11-07-2017, 04:28 PM   #245
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There is nothing to vote on, It's already law
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Old 11-07-2017, 05:31 PM   #246
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There is nothing to vote on, It's already law
So the projected future shortfall issue is fixed then? Yippee! How did they do it? I somehow missed it.
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Collecting Social Security at age 62 is the best decision, here is why:
Old 11-07-2017, 08:53 PM   #247
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Collecting Social Security at age 62 is the best decision, here is why:

WEP and GPO and family longevity history means 64 1/2 for me.
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Old 11-07-2017, 09:02 PM   #248
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Just pulled the trigger to start collecting at 64 1/2. DW is impacted by WEP and GPO, so o nly way
Yep, that's my case too. DW will never see a penny of my SS due to GPO. Therefore to provide her with some financial protection, I started my SS at 62 and invested the money each month. It worked out well. A reasonable WR from that pot yields more than the delta between my current SS and what I would have received had I delayed until 70.

GPO really changes the picture for a married couple. There are several others here on the FIRE board in a similar situation and have mentioned similar strategies.
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Old 11-08-2017, 12:54 AM   #249
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We'll probably take at least the larger of the two at 62 for income stream diversification and because we think benefits may be cut, taxed more or there may be asset / income testing in the future that might impact us.
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Old 11-08-2017, 03:25 AM   #250
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odds are if it wasn't grandfathered up to a certain age like the last changes it will be done to those already collecting too
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Old 11-08-2017, 05:36 AM   #251
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The OP states "...The last few years were hell. My bosses had done everything that they could to make my life miserable and get me to quit..."

Thought I'd share my experience.
I had an employment contract stipulating that if I were terminated under certain conditions I'd get a hefty pay-out but if I quit I'd get nothing.

One night I received a 1AM email (intended for someone else) from someone on how they might get me to quit using certain strategies and obviously saving the company some money.

Considering the time of day, I'd guess it was a 'drunk email'. Seems that instead of putting my name in the "Subject" line, it was put in the "To" line, autofill took it from there and I got the message instead of the intended recipient.

I never let on. They paid me.
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:36 AM   #252
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WEP and GPO and family longevity history means 64 1/2 for me.

I found WEP on the acronyms page, but not GPO...

What is GPO, and how do WEP and GPO effect your decision?
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:39 AM   #253
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GPO = Government Pension Offset

https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/gpo-calc.html
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Old 11-08-2017, 07:05 AM   #254
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WEP and GPO and family longevity history means 64 1/2 for me.
We will be whacked by the double-sided GPO/WEP club as well and it looks like DW's entire SS benefit will disappear.

So are you thinking you need to take it early to invest it? Is there something about 64.5 in particular that works for you?
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Old 11-08-2017, 07:13 AM   #255
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Therefore to provide her with some financial protection, I started my SS at 62 and invested the money each month. It worked out well. A reasonable WR from that pot yields more than the delta between my current SS and what I would have received had I delayed until 70.
Are you saying you are outearning SS? I'm probably being thick, but I am not quite following your strategy.
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:36 AM   #256
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Yep, that's my case too. DW will never see a penny of my SS due to GPO. Therefore to provide her with some financial protection, I started my SS at 62 and invested the money each month. It worked out well.
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Are you saying you are outearning SS? I'm probably being thick, but I am not quite following your strategy.
I think this is what most/many of us who take SS early do in a roundabout way. In my case, instead of reinvesting my SS, I spend it and the same amount that I DON'T have to withdraw continues to earn returns.
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Old 11-08-2017, 05:01 PM   #257
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I think this is what most/many of us who take SS early do in a roundabout way. In my case, instead of reinvesting my SS, I spend it and the same amount that I DON'T have to withdraw continues to earn returns.


This.
Family history doesn’t predict life far into the 80s for me, so odds against break even point. Why 64 1/2 for me? Took me 2 1/2 years to admit to myself I was old enough to collect SS, I guess ;-)
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Old 11-10-2017, 07:36 AM   #258
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SS will go according to the way the law is written with the 23% haircut. The politicians will just stand back and let it happen. The voters won't have a say. It's already been said.
Seriously? ... You don't think they'll be any politicians running that will want to get elected based on 'changing the law'....
You want to see an issue that will unite the Far Right and the Far Left (Especially those 50 and older (The ones that vote)
It will become like raising the debt ceiling, where congress gets out their "rubber stamp".

Politicians have already proven that they don't care about the debt.... The "conservatives' in the House have just proposed increasing the debt by 1.7 Trillion over the next 10 years for an unnecessary tax cut.
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Old 11-10-2017, 07:45 AM   #259
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SS will go according to the way the law is written with the 23% haircut. The politicians will just stand back and let it happen. The voters won't have a say. It's already been said. So put that into your plan and consider what that will mean to a 17 year older you.
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There is nothing to vote on, It's already law
I"m not following this. Are you saying that we're in for a 23% reduction in SS? Or is this for future recipients?
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Old 11-10-2017, 08:22 AM   #260
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SS is a voter guaranteed. Too many retirees collecting that vote. I can not imagine a politician getting elected or re elected that did anything to limit SS for the 65+ crowd.
You are not seeing the tsunami of baby boomers taking SS in the next 10 years. The number of people on SS, medicare, and disability will approximately double in the next 10 years. Coupled with increasing interest rates on ballooning debt you need to imagine what the national budget will look like in 2027-2035.
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