Cool FIRE article in MSN Money

[JoeWras]

It all sounds great... except for renting out the house to AirBnB. I really don't want people bringing in their bedbugs to my home. I'll OMY to avoid having to rent out my home.

But, hey, that's the millennial way. Share close spaces, bugs and diseases. Whatever.

(This is where the I of my ISTJ comes out, big time.)

[Car-Guy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Totoro Somewhere between 20% and 30% of women will never have children. And I think 25% up to 35% of men.

I think 100% of men will not have children. Although modern medicine is doing some amazing things these days.

[euro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Car-Guy I think 100% of men will not have children. Although modern medicine is doing some amazing things these days.

[daylatedollarshort]

It would be more interesting to me to see articles on people that retired in their 30s several decades ago, with the same kind of inflation adjusted nest eggs, through up and down markets, and a smattering of life's ups and downs - kids, college, divorce, braces, illness, elderly relatives needing financial help, kids or grandkids with disabilities, long term care, housing market busts, etc. - and see how they are doing now and what if anything they learned in hindsight.

I know from being a project manager most managers could make plans and their projects didn't fail during the initial stages. But most were unable to plan long term projects accurately and their projects often failed because their estimates were too optimistic and they didn't allow for inevitable contingencies.

[Fedup]

Kids don't make you spend more. They help you hold on to money. I know without kids, I would have been a spendthrift. My husband wanted kids more than I wanted. But now I can't think of not having them. They are my major accomplishments.
Without kids, I wouldn't think about buying a house in a good school district, but I did with them. Those houses tend to be sought after and retain value. But we probably would be able to retire 10 years earlier. But doing what is the question. I think we retire at the right time. Not too early and not too late.

[YVRRocketSurgery]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort It would be more interesting to me to see articles on people that retired in their 30s several decades ago, with the same kind of inflation adjusted nest eggs, through up and down markets, and a smattering of life's ups and downs - kids, college, divorce, braces, illness - and see how they are doing now and what if anything they learned in hindsight.

I was thinking the same thing. However, I wonder if this early retirement extreme (retiring in your 30's or early 40's) from a working class background is more of a phenomenon of the last 15-20 years and as such, only has limited data. However, there seems to be quite a number of blog by people that retired early extreme. Most of the ones I've read, handled the 2008 market meltdown well and have managed with young kids fine but haven't encountered issues such as divorce or serious illness.

[purplesky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eta2020 Go Curry Cracker! - Spend Little, Save More, Travel the World. Go Curry Cracker!Go Curry Cracker! | Spend Little, Save More, Travel the World. Go Curry Cracker! I think that couple of software engineers retired at 38. I can not see any reason why high earning couple that lived on 2k month while working could not do it. Now they live on 4-5k a month. BTW I love their thoughts on Renting versus owning. Renters For Life - Go Curry Cracker!Go Curry Cracker!

These stories are everywhere now and they are just trying to get eyeballs on blogs and ears on podcasts.

Its just another fake millennial fantasy to retire early these days just like in the high flying 90s when you saw article after article about people retiring at age 50. Didn't happen.

Yes maybe some VERY high income couples can pull this off closer to age 40 without kids. Thats an additional 10 years of saving cash.

But this couple has a math problem. Its fake. But that MSN article will sure drive traffic to their blog.

[rodi]

I think these couples (bruno, gcc) are doing things right - they've analyzed the trade off and are flexible with their spending - willing to tighten the belt when necessary.

GCC had atypical (for US) medical expenses with the pregnancy and birth - there's a post on that. Because they did it all in Taiwan. Even with my high end, work provided health care insurance, my copays and out of pocket were higher for childbirth than theirs - and I did not do IVF. A case where location (and citizenship) is everything.

Since I am not leading a nomadic life (by choice) I find there *are* some fixed expenses with kids. My kids are 13 and 15. Health insurance is several hundred a month for them - and that's with a HDHP. Factor in out of pocket/deductible... it goes up more. The OOP has gone up as they've grown up and do more sports/activities (and get the related injuries....)

I've also reached the point where grocery bills are going up. Teenage boys eat a lot. Between inflation and ravenous teenagers - we're spending $40/week more than we were last year.

Travel is more expensive - especially if you travel by air. Airfare for our "trip of a lifetime" last summer was huge. We rented larger apartments (9 weeks of travel, we needed *some* privacy and space from our teenagers.). But - they were able to get student discounts, or free entry, to many of the sites we visited. And some of the train fares (about 20% of them) were reduced price. Another factor of having school age kids and how it impacts the travel budget - we're forced into high season. Looking forward to them being in college and having the freedom to do shoulder season/last minute bargain traveling.

Folks who hang out here know that it is possible to live frugally, but still have a great lifestyle... and save lots of money in the process.. It's possible to do that with kids, as well... but the savings might not be *quite* as great.

[purplesky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Totoro If you are a high earning engineer couple in the USA, it happens every day. Or an investment banker, or management consulting. That's what, 1% of the workforce? I did it in a much higher tax environment, as a single not-so-frugal person. A few others here did it as well. It's not realistic for the other 99%. Starbucks might save your life but it won't get you retired early.

It takes money to make money. According to the article I didn't get the impression they made Google engineer or investment banker type incomes for any extended period of time.

The guy was unemployed for a stretch and was inspired to never ever work again.

I love their idea. But its just not reality for middle-class earners in 2016.

So I guess their parents or Canada paid for their college. That would have helped their savings path but the math does not work.

And the Roth IRA conversion ladder was a real laugher.

Its like a fake Facebook profile.

All the money websites get eyeballs with these retire early fantasy stories.

[MichaelB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplesky This is fake crap.

Can't agree with you there. If there's one thing about crap, it's never fake. Always real.

[purplesky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelB Can't agree with you there. If there's one thing about crap, it's never fake. Always real.

A sucker is born every minute on the internet.

[RobbieB]

Sorry, but fake crap will always be around and will always be sold.

You can also get fake puke and blood too -

[rodi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplesky And the Roth IRA conversion ladder was a real laugher.

Why is that real laughter? You can withdraw Roth principle (not the growth) after 5 years. So converting a chunk of IRA to ROTH every year - lets you start accessing the previously IRA/401k money after 5 years. Do it every year - you have a ladder.

why is that funny?

[photoguy]

I think the couple in the OP's article is a good example of how living in HCOL area can be advantageous to ER.

Their trajectory wasn't that much different from my own. I started work later (didn't enter the workforce until nearly 30), but we still finished in a little more than 10 years. Roughly similar income. We also sold our home in bay area as it wasn't feasible to FIRE otherwise.

By US standards as a whole, they are making a ton of money, but 200k is not unusual for dual income couple in the bay area. It might even be considered low.

Math wise, our yearly spend was roughly 70-80k (not including income taxes but including property tax) and we saved everything else. We benefited immensely from the meltdown as our income continued to increase and we continued to shovel money into the markets.

I was unemployed for a few stretches (layoff + leave of absence). But this turned out to be financially advantageous as I got severance and signing bonus from my new employer.

If they went to school in Canada, they probably paid similar tuition to a US state undergrad program. The big advantage with being Canadian, in terms of FIRE, is that they can cut long-tail risk in medical expenses by having the option to return Canada.

Obviously very few people retire at their age. But definitely achievable for dinks in good careers.

[purplesky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodi Why is that real laughter? You can withdraw Roth principle (not the growth) after 5 years. So converting a chunk of IRA to ROTH every year - lets you start accessing the previously IRA/401k money after 5 years. Do it every year - you have a ladder. why is that funny?

Oh It can be done. But since this is a fantasy story about 2 very young people who supposedly saved 1 million(minus $270k for the new house) and supposedly retired it is funny that they somehow avoided penalties and were able to get to their money without tax issues at age 30. Paint a perfect picture.

I take issue with the main stream media selling the millennial generation that

this retire by age 30 fantasy is even close to realistic. It is ridiculous.

There is a minimalist and frugal lifestyle movement that is wonderful for people
and I am frugal myself.

But its smoke and mirrors. This couple is not retired. Its called we have a blog and want blog traffic before we go back to work.

[frayne]

Good for them, smart kids with a plan and the discipline to execute it. They realized early the insanity of acquiring things you don't need with money you don't have to impress people you don't like, also known as the American Dream to many.

[teej1985]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplesky Oh It can be done. But since this is a fantasy story about 2 very young people who supposedly saved 1 million(minus $270k for the new house) and supposedly retired it is funny that they somehow avoided penalties and were able to get to their money without tax issues at age 30. Paint a perfect picture. I take issue with the main stream media selling the millennial generation that this retire by age 30 fantasy is even close to realistic. It is ridiculous. There is a minimalist and frugal lifestyle movement that is wonderful for people and I am frugal myself. But its smoke and mirrors. This couple is not retired. Its called we have a blog and want blog traffic before we go back to work.

Sounds like you are being the internet retirement police to me. Their new 'job' is running their blog, sure. But they don't have to answer to anybody except their readers. There's no shame in that and it is something that anyone can do...if they are willing to take the risk, if they write well, and they have something interesting to say. Doesn't hurt to have the head start of a well compensated dual income traditional career....

[purplesky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by teej1985 Sounds like you are being the internet retirement police to me. Their new 'job' is running their blog, sure. But they don't have to answer to anybody except their readers. There's no shame in that and it is something that anyone can do...if they are willing to take the risk, if they write well, and they have something interesting to say. Doesn't hurt to have the head start of a well compensated dual income traditional career....

Shame on the media for selling this retire early fantasy to the millennial generation. Its just like a get rich quick mentality.

I have a millennial in college now and his response to the article is "why give up high paying careers when you could really build true real wealth" working longer. They stopped way short of true portfolio security at an early age.

I don't have a problem with this couple at all. More power to them. But they are not retired so don't tell me they are.

My original point is that this whole idea of retiring at age 30 is a joke and its a headline to get people to click on a story.

Its interesting how defensive people are getting on here because I am calling out how ridiculous this is.

I sure hope mom and dad didn't pay for those college degrees because that sure was a waste of money.
How long did it take mom and dad to earn that money to pay for their college.

If my kid gave up a career at age 30 in chemical engineering to drive to Costa Rica in a 4 runner and sit on their butt and then hangout in a craft brewery with other non working hipsters I would want my cut of the 1 million.

[rodi]

purplesky - I wonder why their choices bother you so much. They don't sugar coat the challenges (having to live SUPER frugally - not buy into commercialism, etc.) But they point out there ARE choices. Not everyone needs 2 cars, a cuisinart, a juicer, jetski's, etc... You can *choose* to spend less and gain more free time.

I have no problem with the message. I wonder why you do? That's not snark - that's true curiousity - why does their discussion of the choices they made upset you so much?

[bclover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplesky I am really getting sick of these "millennial saved big money and retired early stories." So 2 middle class income earners supposedly stashed 1 million away and are now retired. Yes sure. Happens every day in America. Seriously. The math does not work. Sorry, just not buying another early 30's millennial retired early story on the internet. So they spent $270k on a house. WOW! And its near cool craft breweries and awesome art galleries. How neat! Also, they are going to rent out their new house on AirBnB and travel in the summer. Do not buy into this early retirement fantasy that is being sold to the millennial generation. This is fake crap.

I simply don't understand these articles. So what!!! what are they trying to prove? what that they are some how superior because they have a 15 year old car and sleeping in it??

Me, I have more respect for my neighbor. Had two kids and when tragedy stuck her family adopted 3 more. She is a stay at home mom and they sacrifice knowing they will probably not retire early.

I have no problem with their choices. but neither do I feel the need to have a article on them as if they are the "poster kids' for good decisions.

So for me this story wasn't "cool", it was a serious, "must be a slow news day"