Dave Ramsey approach

[frayne]

I agree with 95% of what DR preaches, the exception being is his position on preferring managed mutual funds as opposed to index funds.

 

[beernutzbob]

Funds that he runs / profits from?
Would love to hear more about how his pyramid works.

You are not aware of the ELP scam? ELPs pay Dave and Dave in turn strongly recommends that his listeners buy front loaded mutual funds from ELPs.

 

[RobbieB]

That's not a pyramid, just the usual kickback deal.

 

[ERD50]

I agree with 95% of what DR preaches, the exception being is his position on preferring managed mutual funds as opposed to index funds.

OK, but that leads me to: Why does he do that? Why does he lie to his audience about market returns?

You are not aware of the ELP scam? ELPs pay Dave and Dave in turn strongly recommends that his listeners buy front loaded mutual funds from ELPs.

He's not helping these people if he's recommending load funds. Kind of a wolf in sheep's clothing, or something.

Maybe it wouldn't bother me so much, and I could just write it off as "a guy's gotta make a buck", but when people treat him like some kind of Saint/Guru, and when DR uses all these religious references, it just bugs me. I stop giving the benefit of the doubt at a point. Fool me once...

-ERD50

 

[RobbieB]

Rancher has to fleece the flock to get paid. Preacher passes the collection plate. Go big, national scale!

 

[harley]

You are not aware of the ELP scam? ELPs pay Dave and Dave in turn strongly recommends that his listeners buy front loaded mutual funds from ELPs.

I guess he's a Lucky Man.

 

[beernutzbob]

That's not a pyramid, just the usual kickback deal.

Apologies for mischaracterizing the scam.

 

[olyveoil]

You are not aware of the ELP scam? ELPs pay Dave and Dave in turn strongly recommends that his listeners buy front loaded mutual funds from ELPs.

You understand what a pyramid scheme is?
Strongly recommends? how awful!
He also has ELP's for term life insurance. I have used them. They are the same as select quote, etc. how terribly awful of Dave R!

 

[Aerides]

It's very clear that DR is a polarizing figure.

It's equally clear that no one's firmly-held opinion of him is going to be swayed by this thread.

It is important though, that anyone just now learning about him and considering following his guidance, do their own research into the products and investments he promotes, as we should with any adviser, as one size has never really been a good fit for all.

 

[mrfeh]

Maybe it wouldn't bother me so much, and I could just write it off as "a guy's gotta make a buck", but when people treat him like some kind of Saint/Guru, and when DR uses all these religious references, it just bugs me. I stop giving the benefit of the doubt at a point. Fool me once...

-ERD50

+1

He's profiting as a result of giving bad advice to people that trust him. That's pretty despicable.

 

[beernutzbob]

You understand what a pyramid scheme is?
Strongly recommends? how awful!
He also has ELP's for term life insurance. I have used them. They are the same as select quote, etc. how terribly awful of Dave R!

What's your favorite flavor of koolaid?

 

[Gumby]

Moderator Note: Everyone settle down. Read the Community Rules about personal attacks. Address the point, not the person making it.

 

[imnontrad]

Giving people a reason and a path to get out of debt - GREAT
Investment advice - Uhhh, no. He recommends actively managed funds with an up front fee and a financial planner that charges commission/AUM.
I once went to one of his "approved realtors". Honestly one of the worst realtors I ever had.

 

[Joyjoy757]

Hi there and welcome. I think the DR approach has it’s place. When listening to him on the radio, mostly young people call in for advice.
When my husband passed unexpectedly, (he was a Pacific Islander, too), I was beside myself and scrambled. I needed help trying to find which way was up. DRs books helped me with prioritizing the bills and paying off the CCs I didnt even know existed. Panic. Anxiety. SO, I am thankful for his books. He doesn’t think that ANY debt is good and you should pay cash for everything and if you cant afford it on cash, you dont get it. It took me 5 years to see any light. I’ve paid off my house and bought my car with cash. I am not one of the rich people here. Not even close. I am here for the great advice from these fine folks about retirement. They’ve all been very helpful.

 

[Maidensong]

Dating Myself

I enjoy listening to Dave Ramsey if we're on a road trip because it makes me feel virtuous about how we've handled our money. It's nice to own what you own. He's also helped our grown kids learn to be more responsible with their money. And learning not to amass a lot of debt is one of the ways you graduate to a forum like this where you can get ideas about what to do with your surplus!

But the DH and I actually figured out our finances using one of Dave Ramsey's predecessors, Larry Burkett's envelope system back in the dark ages before there was such a thing a apps. (Or cell phones for that matter!) It was a different way of thinking about and controlling our spending so we could enjoy the peace that comes from living below our means. And over the years, our means changed...

 

[QuinnB]

Count me as another Ramsey approach user. Debt free, and when we became so it felt so good, so liberating. I like to listen to his radio show as well. I enjoy where his guests do the 3-2-1 countdown and scream "we're debt free!"

 

[FIREarly]

From the little amount of time I listened to Dave Ramsey I found his target audience to be people who have little understanding of finances and who get themselves into credit card debt by living above their means, and then look to him for advice on how to get out of the mess they got themselves in.

This forum is focused on early retirement, which generally happens by not doing the above. Most of the members on this forum got here by being responsible with their finances, and so they find Dave’s advice silly and nonsensical, similar to the random stuff that Suze Orman says.

If you have specific questions about your own finances you would be better off posting an introduction and then asking any questions you may have.

+1
This forum also includes people who want to retire early and need semi-online-mentors (might be to strong of word) to help us (me) spend better.

DW tells me I don't have a "money mindset" bc I try to not spend money. Do not want to diverge this forum topic.

Ready has a very good post and I use this forum to help learn from people with more experience/better knowledge on the topic. Also, I hope to provide help in return too.

 

[FIREarly]

Thinking about it, my Godfather paid off this mortgage in a HIGH COL and it seems like they're doing well and go on trips every now and then. His DW doesn't work and they have 2 kids (one in college and going to grad school).

From a basic level, it sounds like they're doing the Ramsey Approach by paying off their mortgage quickly... know there is more to it than that.

I like earning points on credit cards that are paid off every month. Wish the monthly credit card bills were lower buy that is EU error.

 

[HarveyS]

I'm in the "he does more good than harm" camp. No, I don't agree with all that he says. And some of his new "personalities", brought on to expand the audience reach I presume, are not my favorites.

In 10 years of listening I have never heard him recommend a specific fund. He preaches 4 types of funds, all generic. Yes, he prefers actively managed funds. No, I do not. Yes, he despises CCs. No, I do not. At the same time, I can see how spending on a CC has been shown to be higher than spending cash/debit. I spend on CCs, and spend more than if I was spending cash, but I can afford it. I counsel my children (23 and 19), not to freely use CCs, but to have for an emergency. When they get jobs and have significant income, then they can use CCs more freely.

In the greater scheme of things, it is better to have someone investing in any fund than running up debt they cannot afford. It is better to not have a car worth 50% of your annual income. It is better to buy a house you can afford, than to buy at what the bank will lend you.

The ELP program is a form of paid advertising for the ELP. Just like an ad in the paper. The consumer still needs to vet the provider. I see this as any other ad or referral. A friend from the neighborhood recommends a realtor. Do you interview or just sign on blindly? Same thing with ELPs.

Yes, I think he is aggressive in his investment returns estimates. But encouraging people to pay off debt, invest and save is a good thing.

And, it's all at no cost. The radio show and podcasts are free. Books are available at libraries all over the country.

 

[racy]

Rancher has to fleece the flock to get paid. Preacher passes the collection plate. Go big, national scale!

For fun, Google images of DR's home.

 

[Aerides]

I'm in the "he does more good than harm" camp.

For those in financial worries who need his help, younger folks and those loaded with unsecured debt, I would agree.

The ELP program is a form of paid advertising for the ELP. Just like an ad in the paper. The consumer still needs to vet the provider. I see this as any other ad or referral. A friend from the neighborhood recommends a realtor. Do you interview or just sign on blindly? Same thing with ELPs...
And, it's all at no cost. The radio show and podcasts are free. Books are available at libraries all over the country.

The radio show and podcast are the ads. It's all a circle. Listen to the shows, get the books (buy or borrow), go to his website, sign on for more help, more apps, more pros. If there was no product to sell there would be no show. You can't hear more than 3 calls in a row before there is a recommendation of one of the features on his site - often to his "trusted" advisors in RE or FP.

He is an entertainer first and foremost, with a brand and product.

 

[Lienlord]

I'm a fan, if not a current follower of DR. I agree with many that say his advice has an audience. The fact he's a Christian, and weaves many evangelical principles (salvation, tithing, church) into his message probably causes some to dismiss him out of hand.

Is his debt/CC advice extreme? Yes, but most that turn to him are already in extreme situations. He treats debt & CC's like AA deals treats alcohol; if you already have a problem with it, no amount is going to be good for you!

When it comes to budgeting, most of us don't need his simplistic advice. But then again, Olympic athletes (us) don't need Weight Watchers or follow their diets; we're in great shape compared to the majority around us! LOL

When it comes to investing, I'd put him in the same category as Edward Jones. My brother uses them, and loves his advisor. I'd never consider them (for the many reasons discussed here); there are better ways if you're willing to do the research. But my brother isn't willing, and likes having his hand held and told everything is under control! His progress may be slower than mine, but still better than doing nothing.

It's like General Patton said, "A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan executed next week!"

 

[frayne]

I'm a fan, if not a current follower of DR. I agree with many that say his advice has an audience. The fact he's a Christian, and weaves many evangelical principles (salvation, tithing, church) into his message probably causes some to dismiss him out of hand.

Is his debt/CC advice extreme? Yes, but most that turn to him are already in extreme situations. He treats debt & CC's like AA deals treats alcohol; if you already have a problem with it, no amount is going to be good for you!

When it comes to budgeting, most of us don't need his simplistic advice. But then again, Olympic athletes (us) don't need Weight Watchers or follow their diets; we're in great shape compared to the majority around us! LOL

When it comes to investing, I'd put him in the same category as Edward Jones. My brother uses them, and loves his advisor. I'd never consider them (for the many reasons discussed here); there are better ways if you're willing to do the research. But my brother isn't willing, and likes having his hand held and told everything is under control! His progress may be slower than mine, but it will still better than doing nothing.

It's like General Patton said, "A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan executed next week!"

+1

 

[PatrickA5]

When I was in my early 30's, I was unemployed, probably $30K in credit card debt, using cash advances from one card to make minimum payments on the other cards. That's the point where I (we) started taking finances seriously. I finally found a job and we started putting every penny towards getting out of debt. Took about 3 years. My famous line that I'd tell my kids was "Credit Cards are Evil". Even though these days I use CC's for everything, I think DR's advice on credit card debt is spot on for a lot of people. He didn't come around until after I was out of debt, but I did read his book (along with many others) and felt some of his advice was pretty good.

True, his investing advice sucks, but for the vast majority of his audience investing is the last thing they're worried about.

 

[FANOFJESUS]

For fun, Google images of DR's home.

Wow quite a home. He just sold it. Looks like he is moving.

Other than loaded funds I like the guy. To be fair I wish loaded funds were my worst investing mistake.