Debit card fraud

[W2R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo From the WSJ: Quote: With debit cards, the CFPB says that “if an unauthorized transaction appears on your statement (but your card or PIN has not been lost or stolen), under federal law you will not be liable for the debit if you report it within 60 days after your account statement is sent to you.” The rules are different if the card or PIN has been lost or stolen: Report the problem within two business days and liability is limited to $50 of unauthorized charges. Then the maximum liability rises to $500. Fraud Worries: Debit vs. Credit Cards - Total Return - WSJ

Not only that, on some debit cards like mine, Mastercard will cover the $50. So, I wouldn't even have to pay that.

[W2R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Hitter happens sometimes .....I need to go to the bank today anyway to exchange my debit card for one with a chip in it - I'll ask for the agreement

You don't even HAVE the agreement? Your bank sounds like a stone loser to me.

[Sarah in SC]

All of this was worth it though, just to hear those magic words from a wife: you were right. I hope you savored the moment, for the rarity.

[MichaelB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by W2R You are absolutely wrong. You need to read the agreement for your debit card, and that will tell you what fraud coverage you have, if any. Don't go by "scare journalism".... read the contract.

+1

When the EFTA was first published credit cards enjoyed greater consumer protection regulations compared with debit cards. This has since been modified, and now FTC regulations (see here) protect debit card account holders from unauthorized transactions.

[Big_Hitter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by W2R You don't even HAVE the agreement? Your bank sounds like a stone loser to me.

I've had this (we call it a pulse card) for 15 years. We just use it to get cash out of ATMs. It's a Chase card if that helps. I tend not to read agreements anyway....

[ivinsfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by COcheesehead Skimmer. It captures the number and the pin. In Denver they show up at gas stations, light rail ticket kiosks, lots of places.

So I understand the skimmer part, I have heard about those, but I'm curious about the process used to get money from an ATM, or pay in person for a meal, when you don't have the card in your possession. I guess I just thought most skimming fraud happened on line.

[gauss]

Quote:

Originally Posted by W2R You are absolutely wrong. You need to read the agreement for your debit card, and that will tell you what fraud coverage you have, if any. Don't go by "scare journalism".... read the contract. As for chip and pin, my debit card has chip & pin if needed but can also be swiped since most places don't seem to be able to handle chip & pin yet. So, it doesn't seem to make much difference.

Good advice from W2R and I will take it one step further.

Also be aware of the Federal and State legal protections that you may have. They tend to change slower than contractual protections that can in most cases be changed at any time unilaterally.

Re Scare Journalism - Very surprised that people still think that they need LifeLock

I could see the appeal a decade or so before credit bureau security freezes were universally available, but not so much today.

-gauss

[COcheesehead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan So I understand the skimmer part, I have heard about those, but I'm curious about the process used to get money from an ATM, or pay in person for a meal, when you don't have the card in your possession. I guess I just thought most skimming fraud happened on line.

People make a card. It happened to me.

[gauss]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan So I understand the skimmer part, I have heard about those, but I'm curious about the process used to get money from an ATM, or pay in person for a meal, when you don't have the card in your possession. I guess I just thought most skimming fraud happened on line.

Take a card and re-encode the magnetic strip from the strip data skimmed from the original card. And of course don't forget to sign the card so that the merchant can verify that it is legitimate


-gauss

[razztazz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan So I understand the skimmer part, I have heard about those, but I'm curious about the process used to get money from an ATM, or pay in person for a meal, when you don't have the card in your possession. I guess I just thought most skimming fraud happened on line.

I am not knowledgeable of the actual process but there is a way these card thieves cab actually clone a copy of your card. Manufacture a physical duplicate of your card with all the information on it. It's happened to me twice and it was the card company that told me that's how the thieves did it when I reported the bogus charge.

[Sunset]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan So I understand the skimmer part, I have heard about those, but I'm curious about the process used to get money from an ATM, or pay in person for a meal, when you don't have the card in your possession. I guess I just thought most skimming fraud happened on line.

You take a blank card, embed the magnetic info on the strip on the back with a card writer.

https://www.amazon.com/Deftun-MSR605...it+card+writer

Then go off and withdraw money or buy stuff all for free...
This could be a crime, but prison has free food and health care along with dating services

[ivinsfan]

Man if only people would put that much effort into legitimate work they could probably FIRE without being a thief.

[rodi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah in SC All of this was worth it though, just to hear those magic words from a wife: you were right. I hope you savored the moment, for the rarity.

+100

[Totoro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by razztazz I am not knowledgeable of the actual process but there is a way these card thieves cab actually clone a copy of your card. Manufacture a physical duplicate of your card with all the information on it. It's happened to me twice and it was the card company that told me that's how the thieves did it when I reported the bogus charge.

They have blank cards and a writer. You can buy em in bulk. The skimmer reads the credentials off the card in several ways. One is a small device set on top of the slot where you insert the device. Done neatly, you don't even notice it. Just take a look at this one: Would You Have Spotted the Fraud? — Krebs on Security

PIN is not stored on the card, there probably is a pinhole camera hidden on the ATM. Or a device installed under the keypad registers your key presses. Or someone is looking over your shoulder. Yes, it can be that low tech ..

At least that's how they do it out here in Europe.

Mind you, this also applies to credit cards, this is not a debit card specific problem.

[Alan]

We recently opened a new US bank account and when the CHIP debit card arrived it came with instructions on how to change the PIN if desired by phone.

I called the number, went through all the hoops to change the PIN to something I'd remember and was then informed that the PIN had been successfully changed, but since it was a CHIP card the pin was not encoded into the CHIP so the card could not be used as a debit card (for purchases) outside of the USA, although it could be used as an ATM card. That suits me fine. I did test it as an ATM card at a machine where we are living in the UK, and it worked fine. (called up an account balance)

If I went to a branch of the bank that had an ATM that supported PIN services then I could have the new PIN encoded onto the CHIP.

[Bestwifeever]

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo Good question. DW asked the fraud folks at the bank how the fraud took place and was told it was probably some sort of skimmer that captured both the card number and the pin (seems far-fetched to me, but what do I know), or maybe a security breach at a retail merchant.

Try not to say "I told you so" out loud too many times

My card number and PIN were stolen via a skimming thingie the bad guys put on the ATM in my bank's lobby, in the little airlock between the outer door and the inner door. A lot of cojones needed to set that up, on bank property, under security cameras, etc. I didn't even know $1503 had been physically withdrawn at an ATM thirty miles away until my bank called and told me I would be receiving a new card--the withdrawals and the bank's replacement of the funds never showed up on our banking statements.

Now we get text and email alerts whenever we use our debit cards.

[REWahoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bestwifeever Try not to say "I told you so" out loud too many times

I didn't and won't utter those words aloud - at least not within her earshot.

[Corporateburnout]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bestwifeever Try not to say "I told you so" out loud too many times My card number and PIN were stolen via a skimming thingie the bad guys put on the ATM in my bank's lobby, in the little airlock between the outer door and the inner door.

You would think the bank lobby is the most secure place to use an ATM. We only use our debit cards at ATMs in bank lobbies.

I guess the only security with debit cards is to monitor the accounts frequently and immediately report any fraudulent activities.

[W2R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporateburnout You would think the bank lobby is the most secure place to use an ATM. We only use our debit cards at ATMs in bank lobbies.

Skimmers steal numbers from credit cards just as easily as they do from debit cards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporateburnout I guess the only security with debit cards is to monitor the accounts frequently and immediately report any fraudulent activities.

There's been a lot of documentation on this thread in various posts showing that security is not necessarily the issue for debit cards as much as it was 30 years ago, at all. For example

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelB +1 When the EFTA was first published credit cards enjoyed greater consumer protection regulations compared with debit cards. This has since been modified, and now FTC regulations (see here) protect debit card account holders from unauthorized transactions.

Beyond government requirements, the additional security you have depends on the debit card contract that you signed. For some debit cards you get the same or better security than you would have for your credit cards.

[exnavynuke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelB +1 When the EFTA was first published credit cards enjoyed greater consumer protection regulations compared with debit cards. This has since been modified, and now FTC regulations (see here) protect debit card account holders from unauthorized transactions.

While true, this doesn't give a complete picture. If you're one of the people that doesn't use credit and only uses your bank account, a thief can empty your account (potentially) with a debit card and the money is gone until you report it AND the bank gets around to giving you your money back. In the meantime, the money is effectively gone. It happened to me years ago and it was 3 days before the money was returned even though I reported the fraud the day it happened. If I were counting on that cash for anything in the meantime, it would not have been available.

With credit card fraud, I get the added safety of "they can't take my actual money".