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Old 10-10-2021, 07:57 PM   #41
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I don't think that is the reason.

I believe Amazon thinks that having an Amazon card has a positive influence about shopping on Amazon. They make profit on everything you buy even paying a 1% fee to the CC issuer. Amazon's fee may even be smaller as there are not many Billion dollar sales in other companies. So Amazon would want to give a CC to just about anyone.

All other CC companies give me credit cards when asked, and they ALL pay me to take the CC. None make money off me as I pay all mine in full and have zero debts.

I sometimes am amazed they all do it for decades, giving me money, but then I talk to relatives & friends and realize they are all paying interest, and indirectly paying for me


I agree to some extent but isn’t Chase Bank the approver and issuer? They are the ones actually extending credit so I’d be surprised if Amazon has a vote.
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Old 10-10-2021, 08:01 PM   #42
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^^^^^. This
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Old 10-10-2021, 10:48 PM   #43
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I agree to some extent but isn’t Chase Bank the approver and issuer? They are the ones actually extending credit so I’d be surprised if Amazon has a vote.
True.

I was responding to the red herring of Amazon denying it.
Chase is one bank I'm careful with on CC as they have the 5/24 rule across the board , and some special rules for Sapphire CC.

Thanks for pointing that out.
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Old 10-10-2021, 10:59 PM   #44
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Lately, my Bank of America CC application has been denied. My score is 804, no debt but 28 accounts with 15 years length of service and just 2% revolving utilization. It looks like my problem is that I have multiple credit cards but no desire to buy anything
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Old 10-10-2021, 11:25 PM   #45
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Makes sense. It’s a credit score, not a Dunn and Bradstreet rating.
True, but perhaps it should be.

My brother's view is "I've done a great job, look at my bullet proof credit rating" and yet for a long time he was one illness away from financial disaster and he's limping towards retirement trying to undo the damage of the long term behaviours that have given him this gold plated rating.

Its yet another example of the financial industry sending self-serving signals to people. An entire sub-industry now exists to help manage this score and optimize your ability to be a good debtor.

One can say that's the job of the financial industry -- to maximize its profits -- but its very damaging to people/society and is one more reason I despise the finance industry.
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Old 10-11-2021, 09:51 AM   #46
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True, but perhaps it should be.



My brother's view is "I've done a great job, look at my bullet proof credit rating" and yet for a long time he was one illness away from financial disaster and he's limping towards retirement trying to undo the damage of the long term behaviours that have given him this gold plated rating.



Its yet another example of the financial industry sending self-serving signals to people. An entire sub-industry now exists to help manage this score and optimize your ability to be a good debtor.



One can say that's the job of the financial industry -- to maximize its profits -- but its very damaging to people/society and is one more reason I despise the finance industry.


Credit history is a reasonable metric. Credit scores are just a fabrication.

How can my ability to repay be scored with no inputs to represent my income or assets?

IMO, it’s all about generating revenue from giga bytes of garbage data clogging their servers.
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Old 10-11-2021, 10:21 AM   #47
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True, but perhaps it should be.

My brother's view is "I've done a great job, look at my bullet proof credit rating" and yet for a long time he was one illness away from financial disaster and he's limping towards retirement trying to undo the damage of the long term behaviours that have given him this gold plated rating.

Its yet another example of the financial industry sending self-serving signals to people. An entire sub-industry now exists to help manage this score and optimize your ability to be a good debtor.

One can say that's the job of the financial industry -- to maximize its profits -- but its very damaging to people/society and is one more reason I despise the finance industry.
To be fair to the financial industry many other industries also try to maximize profits.

Look at the food industry, lots of advertisements showing fun laughing thin people eating huge calorie meals, a full days worth of calories per meal.

I cannot tell you how often at the restaurant the waitress will ask this Chubby fellow if I'd like some booze or a desert with my lunch. She is not asking me out of concern for anything other than to maximize the sale.

Bottom line is People are responsible for their actions.
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Old 10-15-2021, 12:04 AM   #48
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...so it seems counter-intuitive that not having open installment debt is considered a negative.
On one level it is counterintuitive. But for some people credit is like a drug. Not currently being an addict because you have not used drugs does not predict what will happen when you start using. A person who has demonstrated responsible use is lower risk that someone who has never used and could get hooked.
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Old 10-15-2021, 02:43 PM   #49
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Banks are not (too) evil, they are just risk adverse. The OP is risky because they haven't demonstrated that they can manage debt in the past. If you want to get credit in the future, it is best to get a smaller loan and pay it off to demonstrate that. Banks don't care about your assets much either, just cash flow. If you have a large amount of money in a bank account you could possibly remove it before the bank could seize it as collateral. Real estate is better collateral because it is difficult for a debtor to quickly liquidate it.
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Old 10-15-2021, 03:40 PM   #50
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We have not had a mortgage in over 20 years and no car payments since ~2005 (0%offer). I do have over $90K in available credit card limits over 4 cards, which of course we use frequently, and payoff monthly.

Situation: I opened (online) a money market account at my credit union to transfer excess funds ($250K) out of our checking account to make a "little" more interest. Apparently this triggered the credit union to run a credit check (without my knowledge) to see what other products/services they might offer us. I get a letter from them saying that I was denied any other offers because of "insufficient credit history", and mentioning there was no mortgage history.

Last week, something very similar happened with my husband!

Questions: Has this happened to any of you? What did/can you/I do to address this? Would opening a HELOC without drawing on it work, or would we have to actually take on debt?

Who would have thought being debt free was a bad thing!
I had this happen two years ago. I was thinking about financing a new truck, just because I hadn’t financed anything for a long time. My credit score came back 815, but financing was denied because I hadn’t had a mortgage nor a big ticket item like a car financed for over 20 years. I just said “fine, give me the $1000 financing incentive and I’ll just write a check”. They balked…I got up and headed for the door, and then they said ok, ok, ok…you win”.
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Old 10-15-2021, 03:59 PM   #51
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Run a HELOC against your house to show a 'mortgage'. At least my bank reports it as a mortgage to the credit companies. I borrowed the minimum allowed when opening it, paid it off over 6 months so it would count for credit purposes. Worked like a charm, and got a free appraisal out of it too. A note, when borrowing the minimum against the HELOC (say 5k), pay off 4.9k two days later, then make small payments for the next 6 months so you have almost no interest expense.
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Old 10-15-2021, 04:19 PM   #52
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I just received an email CC offer from my kids college.
In it is this,
"Then, enjoy a low variable rate of 15.24% - 25.24% APR* for all purchases and balance transfers after your 12-month introductory-rate period.*"
Do they not understand what low means?
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Old 10-15-2021, 05:54 PM   #53
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I have been a landlord for many years and if I had two tenant applications with one application with “no credit history” and one with a “credit history” I usually select the one application with the “less financial risk”…which is legal according to my attorney. Unfortunately the application with a credit history of paying past debts demonstrate less financial risk to me.
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Old 10-15-2021, 06:48 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Alex The Great
Lately, my Bank of America CC application has been denied. My score is 858 out of 900, no debt but 28 accounts with 15 years length of service and just 2% revolving utilization. It looks like my problem is that I have multiple credit cards but no desire to buy anything
I accidentally let a Citi card, my AT&T Universal Card, not be used for a year so they closed it this month with no notice. It had some 30 years of use but that didn't matter. I asked for it to be re-opened and they denied it because my credit utilization is too high.

My credit score from Citi's site shows 858 out of 900, 20 accounts, 32 years of credit history, and I have 2% credit utilization.

F Citi. I hate that bank. Every time they bought a card I had they f'd it up. I darn near dropped my Costco card when they changed to Citi and I was laughing my head off about how bad Citi f'd up the transition to Citi with Costco.

Some things never change. And the morons just sent me a pre-approved card app today.

F Citi.
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Old 10-15-2021, 06:50 PM   #55
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I accidentally let a Citi card, my AT&T Universal Card, not be used for a year so they closed it this month with no notice. It had some 30 years of use but that didn't matter. I asked for it to be re-opened and they denied it because my credit utilization is too high.

My credit score from Citi's site shows 858 out of 900, 20 accounts, 32 years of credit history, and I have 2% credit utilization.

F Citi. I hate that bank. Every time they bought a card I had they f'd it up. I darn near dropped my Costco card when they changed to Citi and I was laughing my head off about how bad Citi f'd up the transition to Citi with Costco.

Some things never change. And the morons just sent me a pre-approved card app today.

F Citi.

I'm beginning to think this stuff is double speak for we can't make much money off you go away and leave us alone.
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Old 10-15-2021, 07:09 PM   #56
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I'm beginning to think this stuff is double speak for we can't make much money off you go away and leave us alone.
And..."You have too many accounts with balances" but if you don't use an account they will close it without notice, thus lowering your available credit and raising your credit utilization percentage.
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Old 10-15-2021, 08:02 PM   #57
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How can my ability to repay be scored with no inputs to represent my income or assets
It is scored that way because you're unwilling to have your assets pledged as collateral to secure the loan. CC's are unsecured loans. If you want your income and assets to be considered, pledge them as collateral to obtain a loan. It's strictly up to you, but you're wrong to mix secured and unsecured loans.
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Old 10-15-2021, 08:38 PM   #58
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It is scored that way because you're unwilling to have your assets pledged as collateral to secure the loan. CC's are unsecured loans. If you want your income and assets to be considered, pledge them as collateral to obtain a loan. It's strictly up to you, but you're wrong to mix secured and unsecured loans.


How do you know I am unwilling to pledge assets? I think it’s scored that way because they only have access to payment history. I’ve never seen anything to suggest pledging assets would affect a credit score.
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Old 10-15-2021, 08:48 PM   #59
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How do you know I am unwilling to pledge assets? I think it’s scored that way because they only have access to payment history. I’ve never seen anything to suggest pledging assets would affect a credit score.
Can you give some example of where you wanted to borrow money and pledged assets as collateral to secure the loan? Or are you looking to gain access to unsecured credit? Such as CC's? That's where credit scores are aimed.

Lenders only have access to information regarding your assets if you provide it. And they only care what those assets are if you are willing to pledge them as collateral.

You're right, pledging assets doesn't affect a credit score. But pledging assets as collateral would give you access to loans otherwise unavailable.

Unpledged assets don't, and shouldn't, have any impact on credit scores and unsecured loans. They're two different things jazz. You're really trying to mix oil and water.
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Old 10-15-2021, 08:50 PM   #60
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I often wonder how long it is going to take for people to understand that you need to have some debt, some credit history, to play the game. It is like the ante in poker. Without the ante you can't play the game. Saying you are debt free and paid off your home years ago, and although you use a credit card, you pay it off early, is a negative. The banks and credit companies don't care about that. You are a sponge to them. They can't make money off you when you want a free lunch. So pay up the ante.
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