Die With Zero - Book

[Markola]

[emoji16]

 

[harley]

Don't conflate the book title with the actual intent of the points he makes.

I sort of thought that was the purpose of a book title.

 

[Scuba]

I can see his point, but for us we have to weigh that against the advice in The Millionaire Next Door about economic outpatient care. Our adult kids are very career motivated now and making good financial decisions. I would hate to screw that up. We paid for most college costs, first cars, first apartment furnishings, and health insurance before they had jobs with comprehensive plans. I'm not sure how much else would be best for them in the long run, except for maybe help with houses. One of my best friends from back home was from one of the few mult-millionaire families in town, never had to work for anything and it kind of destroyed any motivation to finish college or engage in a career, even though her parents meant well.

I agree 100%. We don’t have children, but we have several close friends who do. The ones who subsidize their kids’ lifestyles generally have kids who are less driven and successful in their careers. The ones with kids who know they have to make it on their own after graduating from university have kids who are thriving career-wise.

Having said that, sponsoring family trips or experiences is a nice way to share wealth and spend quality time together.

 

[audreyh1]

I sort of thought that was the purpose of a book title.

The publisher picks the book title, and sometimes it doesn’t. It’s often picked to grab attention and the author is ceitized later. “End of Alzheimer’s” by Dale Bredesen is a good example - harsh blowback.

 

[Bigdawg]

I agree 100%. We don’t have children, but we have several close friends who do. The ones who subsidize their kids’ lifestyles generally have kids who are less driven and successful in their careers. The ones with kids who know they have to make it on their own after graduating from university have kids who are thriving career-wise.

Having said that, sponsoring family trips or experiences is a nice way to share wealth and spend quality time together.

DW and I try to instill the values and skills in our children that led to our success. We do occasionally help our adult children with flight upgrades, etc... but more importantly instead of giving them fish we try to teach them how to go fishing. Literally took my 25 year old DD on a 24 hour tuna hunt out of New Jersey. We talked finance most of the trip.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I agree 100%. We don’t have children, but we have several close friends who do. The ones who subsidize their kids’ lifestyles generally have kids who are less driven and successful in their careers. The ones with kids who know they have to make it on their own after graduating from university have kids who are thriving career-wise.

Having said that, sponsoring family trips or experiences is a nice way to share wealth and spend quality time together.

My friend with the very wealthy parents once told me that everyone's dream is to own a home one day, but not mine. I'm going to inherit lots of houses. Well, we're retirement age now and last time I checked both her parents were still alive. As Dr. Phil would say, "How's that working out for you?" We don't have the kind of money her parents had but it still made a big impression on us to be very careful about funding able bodied, adult kids' living expenses. The Millionaire Next Door's chapters on the dangers of economic outpatient care reinforced that concept.

The trips are probably a good idea. We've done that with weekend trips now but maybe we should plan something bigger.

 

[Danalyst]

At 71, the book inspired me to take my daughter this fall on a big trip to Bhutan. Expensive, but the memories we’ll share are worth more than leaving an inheritance. I know that I can tighten my belt when necessary if it comes to that, even to the extent of moving offshore.

 

[Flyfish1]

At 71, the book inspired me to take my daughter this fall on a big trip to Bhutan. Expensive, but the memories we’ll share are worth more than leaving an inheritance. I know that I can tighten my belt when necessary if it comes to that, even to the extent of moving offshore.

Bravo! I Believe that sums up the concept of the book very nicely.
Enjoy your trip.

 

[FIREarly]

Die with how many 0's in your account(s)

 

[RobbieB]

Three. $0.00

 

[FIREarly]

Three. $0.00

Very quick and accurate reply (not where I was going with it)... still building accounts but want to have some left to help family/non-profit(s)

Maybe The Giving Pledge will call

 

[RobbieB]

Oh yeah, me too. Have a long list of charities that we fund regularly. I'm not worried about the kids either, both work hard and are very smart.

But I'm not going to cut back now just in case something happens in the future that would cause me to cut back. If that happens then I'll deal with it then. Now is the time to deal with the present and have fun!

 

[2177V]

One of my best friend had a stroke and half her body is now paralyzed. She cannot walk and she needs assistance just to go to the bathroom. A nursing home cost $6K to $8K a month. A live in nurse cost $4K to $6K a month.

Their family now realized that she has to move to another country to get affordable care for her condition. I decided to buy a luxury condo in a low cost of living country for our 2nd vacation home and for affordable health care just in case I need affordable nursing care.

Going to zero makes sense BUT you cannot predict your health situation at the end of your life. I am assuming the worst and hoping for the best. I have not read the book but it will be interesting how the book addresses a potential stroke that leaves you paralyzed.

 

[Paulz]

I like the idea of being able to leave money to my nephews and nieces. The concept of purposely trying to die, leaving as little as possible, doesn't really interest me that much.

I rather like the thought that my nephews and nieces will get a little extra in their bank accounts one day. Then, when they're putting it into savings, or buying something really nice for themselves and their family, they'll know it came from their Uncle Tom.

Yes, that's a nice thought.

I'm doing the same based on my experience. I had a aunt leave me $75k when she passed. That money allowed us to use a portion to adopt two children. Because of her she changed two children's lives and ours as well. I'll never forget her and what she did for me.....

 

[RxMan]

But I'm not going to cut back now just in case something happens in the future that would cause me to cut back. If that happens then I'll deal with it then. Now is the time to deal with the present and have fun!

My own litmus test for how I know things have gotten really bad financially would be you announcing that you’re cutting back on spending.

We all will need a higher power helping us if it ever gets that bad.

 

[Scuba]

My own litmus test for how I know things have gotten really bad financially would be you announcing that you’re cutting back on spending.



We all will need a higher power helping us if it ever gets that bad.

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

 

[Markola]

One of my best friend had a stroke and half her body is now paralyzed. She cannot walk and she needs assistance just to go to the bathroom. A nursing home cost $6K to $8K a month. A live in nurse cost $4K to $6K a month.

Their family now realized that she has to move to another country to get affordable care for her condition. I decided to buy a luxury condo in a low cost of living country for our 2nd vacation home and for affordable health care just in case I need affordable nursing care.

Going to zero makes sense BUT you cannot predict your health situation at the end of your life. I am assuming the worst and hoping for the best. I have not read the book but it will be interesting how the book addresses a potential stroke that leaves you paralyzed.

That’s a somewhat radical solution but I can appreciate the need for it. May I ask what country they chose?

 

[2177V]

That’s a somewhat radical solution but I can appreciate the need for it. May I ask what country they chose?

FYI. China for both my best friend and our planned vacation condo with an extra bedroom for a possible live-in nurse. A luxury condo in a smaller city, is only 1,000,000 RMB which is $157,000 US dollars. My wife speaks the language but I don't. However, learning a new language is a good thing in retirement.

5 years ago, my wife, while visiting relatives in China, had a severe atrial fibrillation attack and the Chinese doctors snake a remote device up her thigh and her neck into her heart to disable some heart nerves. Our USA health insurance gladly paid for this emergency procedure which only cost $5,000 US dollars. If my wife had her heart attack in USA, this procedure would easily cost 5X more. The Chinese doctors are very competent and the doctors and the government controlled the pandemic.

China (in a 3th tier smaller city) has low crime, low cost of living, no guns, high speed rail, great food, cashless system using a phone to pay everything and no need to own a car since cab fares are only $3 US dollars. Elderly people go dancing and socialize in the parks at night which you can get mugged if you do that in the USA. Good personal freedom but no political freedom and less privacy. However, political freedom and privacy becomes less important as you get older.

In the USA, you have few choices when you become elderly and frail: (1) live with your children which may not be an option. (2) live alone and isolated in your home and you are too old to drive. (3) Move into a retirement home. I decided these three options are not acceptable. What happened to our best friend was a wake-up call.

 

[target2019]

Reading the book "Die With Zero"

So far I've read through two chapters. It is not a difficult read, but is thought-provoking, and your mind will probably wander to incorporate its stored memories.

Chapter 1 - Optimize Your Life

Death wakes people up, and the closer it gets, the more awake and aware we become. When the end is near, we suddenly start thinking, What the hell am I doing? Why did I wait this long? Until then, most of us go through life as if we had all the time in the world.

 

[levindb]

I plan for my last check to bounce at my age 105.

If I don't make it that long, there will be $$ left for others. My wife's mother lived to her late 90"s and her mother lived to age 101...so the plan to have money later in life is not unrealistic. Our goal is to not be a burden to the children.

My children will be in their 70's/80's at that time...will they need more money then? The grandchildren will be 40's/50's...and they are all under 14 right now.

I think it more important to teach the younger generations to take care of themselves financially and medically...rather than for us to stay at home so we will be able to give more when we pass.

I want fresh diapers EVERY DAY when I get old!!!!

 

[sengsational]

I'm about half-way through the book. He's obviously talked to a lot of people about this idea, and has counter arguments to most of what people say when they hear about a plan to spend down severely. He mentions two things that "make sense" but not everyone is comfortable with: long term care insurance and life annuities. I think moving to another country is a better option if you need 7/24 nursing, like the China example, above. Buying an immediate annuity is one way to make sure you die with zero, and have money to spend until the end. Might not be financially "optimal", but then again, neither is leaving a huge pile on the table when you go.

Based on reading this book, I asked my (two) kids to come-up with a family gathering vacation plan, at no cost to them, that's so compelling, everyone will want to come. So a six person family gathering that's so cool, they, and the boy friends, will all buy-in. I hope they can get something specific that I can just book it. It's actually easier because I have two years worth of vacation budget to spend, not having done anything last year.

 

[audreyh1]

Based on reading this book, I asked my (two) kids to come-up with a family gathering vacation plan, at no cost to them, that's so compelling, everyone will want to come. So a six person family gathering that's so cool, they, and the boy friends, will all buy-in. I hope they can get something specific that I can just book it. It's actually easier because I have two years worth of vacation budget to spend, not having done anything last year.

Great idea!

 

[pdxgal]

FYI.
In the USA, you have few choices when you become elderly and frail: (1) live with your children which may not be an option. (2) live alone and isolated in your home and you are too old to drive. (3) Move into a retirement home. I decided these three options are not acceptable. What happened to our best friend was a wake-up call.

+1. Moving to another country for care sounds great in theory but could be difficult to do in reality AFTER one has a medical crisis. Having a place ready to go to like VCHAN2177 would help but still could be quite daunting. The air travel and day-to-day communication once at the destination could be tough. You'd probably need a spouse or friend to help out. My mom had a heart attack, after which she had to move into assisted living. She was so frail that travel just around town was very, very difficult and required another person.

In France a while back some single older women built a communal living situation they dubbed "Baba Yaga" house (named after a wise crone of folklore). They got funding from the government, after creating a business plan that showed such a living arrangement would save the government money, vs. their each living alone. Their success has inspired the creation of similar co-housing in other cities. Kind of like "Golden Girls" on a bit larger scale. This is what I'm thinking about joining or creating as I look to my long-term future.

 

[Dog]

Interesting topic and one I’ve been thinking about more frequently. DH has Ventricular Tachycardia that has been getting worse the past two years and has severely impacted what he can do. Thankfully, he can still golf, but the heavy meds have impacted his game. We had dreams of a very active retirement including buying a boat for trips up in the San Juan and Vancouver islands, hiking, biking and travel. That has changed significantly. He can manage brief trips, but is now uncomfortable being out of country or further than the Southwest due to flare ups (Defib activating). He has always been very healthy and active, so this was unexpected (we are both 63). So, the plan is to upgrade what travel we can do and allow for more luxuries around home.
We have several friends that are experiencing unexpected health issues severely impacting their lifestyle. So it is not that uncommon.
I just reserved the book at my local library.

 

[braumeister]

So, the plan is to upgrade what travel we can do and allow for more luxuries around home.
We have several friends that are experiencing unexpected health issues severely impacting their lifestyle. So it is not that uncommon.

Exactly the right thing to do IMO.
And no, not uncommon at all.
Best of luck.