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Old 06-07-2021, 03:04 PM   #61
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A dear cousin died last year. She was always very frugal but overly so IMO, denying herself things that would've made her life easier (like having her front yard converted into a driveway so she'd have a place to park her car in her urban neighborhood that lacked parking spots). In part this was due to some generalized anxiety on her part and (I suspect) some other psychological issues. She seemingly didn't throw anything away.

Her estate is still being settled and the executor has told me I stand to inherit a sizable sum. While it's wonderful to have been so appreciated by my cousin, I feel sad that she probably needlessly deprived herself. I'm keeping these feelings and my cousin's memory top of mind as I start ER, as sort of a touchstone. And I want to use this inheritance to establish a scholarship or something that could benefit people while I'm still alive to see the results.
Old as I am and with as many cousins, aunts, uncles, parents, in-laws, etc., I've never actually inherited anything. DW received $10K from her last uncle 3 days before he passed - not technically an inheritance. We always (VERY affectionately) called him "our rich uncle" as he was always doing stuff like that. Once, he sent every "cousin" $4K. Another time, he sent everyone 100 shares of his new company (worth about $100 at the time IIRC). I hope to be THAT kind of uncle in the future - but the remainder goes to charity.

Interesting how these things go. Both sets of parents (hers and mine) essentially came out even. How amazing is that (I guess my mom had a couple $grand in the check book with my name on it (so, maybe that was my inheritance from her.) Same happened to DWs brother - don't recall he ever shared with her, but it would have been minuscule. MIL nearly fulfilled the age old dream of bouncing the last check - but not quite. YMMV
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Die With Zero - Book
Old 06-07-2021, 03:39 PM   #62
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Die With Zero - Book

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Not everyone uses their inheritance wisely.


I have nothing against inheritances either, but there is a brutal old saying about what often happens. “Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations.”

This article attempts to show a way to overcome the phenomenon so that inheritances don’t go the way of most lottery winnings..

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dennisj...an-survive-it/
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Old 06-07-2021, 03:57 PM   #63
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The median net worth in America including house at age 75 is $255,000, which is only a few years expenses at that point with an 11 year life expectancy so the average American is already nearly there, now if people start really spending their money and not saving, should work out swimmingly!
https://www.cnbc.com/select/average-net-worth-by-age/

Interesting that while the median estate goal given to planners is 900K, the median estate is around 300K, which includes housing.
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Old 06-07-2021, 05:33 PM   #64
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Growing up we had friends with two sons. The older one was doted on as a kid and didn't amount to much as an adult (younger one studied, became a doctor, had a solid family life as best one could tell). Nice enough guy, but bounced around a lot, spent $ on cars and stuff. I recall my folks saying with some contempt that he was just waiting for his inheritance, which he apparently did get at around age 55.

My parents' disdain at that guy's "waiting for his inheritance" went to my core, so much so that although I probably could have ERd shortly after my mom died thanks to my own inheritance, I wanted to reach ER on my own merits (i.e. not taking into account the family money). My parents probably would've thought that silly - my dad especially would've wanted me to quit 'w*rk' if I was able. I'll try to reconcile with that by blowing the dough on some things and experiences that my dad encouraged me to eventually do.
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Old 06-07-2021, 06:48 PM   #65
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I've had to clean out houses for three relatives and it's not easy. If my nieces and nephews are going to have to do that for me, I'd like to make sure I leave them something for their troubles.
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Old 06-07-2021, 11:00 PM   #66
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I think it can be pretty selfish to die with $0.
Especially if a person has not prepaid their funeral/cremation.

It will fall to some relative often named as executor to pay for various expenses like funeral/cremation, cleaning out the rental house, filing the deceased tax return.
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Old 06-08-2021, 06:08 AM   #67
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Nobody is going to die with exactly $0. They’ll have at least a little, or be in debt, LOL!
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Old 06-08-2021, 06:19 AM   #68
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^^^^^There you go, Audrey. Pre-pay for the deluxe funeral, including a parade with clowns, elephants and high school band, on a credit card.
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Old 06-08-2021, 07:43 AM   #69
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Another lie "they" told us. Like money can't buy happiness. And more money, more problems.
The rich can and do hold on to it - quite often.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-REB-35714

*** paywalled link - article talks about the rich families of Florence 600 years ago still being rich. Mea Culpa***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markola View Post
I have nothing against inheritances either, but there is a brutal old saying about what often happens. “Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations.”

This article attempts to show a way to overcome the phenomenon so that inheritances don’t go the way of most lottery winnings..

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dennisj...an-survive-it/
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Die With Zero - Book
Old 06-10-2021, 01:48 PM   #70
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Die With Zero - Book

I can’t access the article but would be interested in how family wealth is preserved over 600 years! I’m going to guess that arranged marriages to others of similar stature, even cousins, and the headright system in which the oldest son inherits everything and the other siblings get nothing, are the central mechanisms.

I don’t think that would work so well in our country where divorce is allowed and laws protect all heirs equally. Both reforms tend to dissipate family wealth, as well as overextended lifestyles, debt, taxes and unfortunate business ventures. So, I can’t agree it’s a “lie”, since I’ve seen small and large fortunes go poof in my lifetime.
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Old 06-10-2021, 02:43 PM   #71
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The challenge I see with the idea of “dying with zero” is how life will be at “zero minus a few years”. In the years before running out, it will be painfully obvious that the end of the portfolio is imminent and unavoidable, and I fear this will generate unmanageable stress. It will also motivate me to dramatically reduce spending. So, instead of having a strategy that allows me to enjoy “all the money”, it will instead ensure the final years will be fearful and unhappy, and probably impoverished.

I’d rather have a plan that lets me spend today and at the same time ensure my future needs are also provided for. If that means leaving money behind, fine.
Don't conflate the book title with the actual intent of the points he makes. I read it and found it to be an interesting philosophy. It made me think, which I believe was the intent of the book. Check it out for free at the library and maybe it will be interesting to you.
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Old 06-10-2021, 02:45 PM   #72
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I like the idea of being able to leave money to my nephews and nieces. The concept of purposely trying to die, leaving as little as possible, doesn't really interest me that much.

I rather like the thought that my nephews and nieces will get a little extra in their bank accounts one day. Then, when they're putting it into savings, or buying something really nice for themselves and their family, they'll know it came from their Uncle Tom.

Yes, that's a nice thought.
His chapter on giving money to family is good. paraphrase: do it now while they can enjoy it and you can see the joy. OR, buy something they need, sponsor a trip, etc.
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Old 06-10-2021, 03:11 PM   #73
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His chapter on giving money to family is good. paraphrase: do it now while they can enjoy it and you can see the joy. OR, buy something they need, sponsor a trip, etc.

I can see his point, but for us we have to weigh that against the advice in The Millionaire Next Door about economic outpatient care. Our adult kids are very career motivated now and making good financial decisions. I would hate to screw that up. We paid for most college costs, first cars, first apartment furnishings, and health insurance before they had jobs with comprehensive plans. I'm not sure how much else would be best for them in the long run, except for maybe help with houses. One of my best friends from back home was from one of the few mult-millionaire families in town, never had to work for anything and it kind of destroyed any motivation to finish college or engage in a career, even though her parents meant well.
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Old 06-10-2021, 04:01 PM   #74
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I can see his point, but for us we have to weigh that against the advice in The Millionaire Next Door about economic outpatient care.
Our oldest son graduated from college in December. I had him read 3 books the year before graduation and the Millionaire Next Door was one of them. He is employed by the federal govt in a career development program and at his current grade he could make it on his own barely or be in some crazy living arrangements.

When we suggested that we would be willing to help him it really offended him as he did not want any EOC. He remembers the concept from the book and doesn't like it. After a few weeks of conversation with him CINC house an I agreed to give him a certain amount of EOC for a certain time period to be able to live in a nicer place and a safer part of town until he gets the next promotion but he has a lot of employer requirements to meet. Its all up to him. At that point he will be golden. Admittedly part of the reason is for us to have piece of mind he is ok.

It does lead us to the questions about inheritance for our kids though. They are gonna be so flush and may find it more of a deterrent than a blessing. Well see what the future holds.
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Old 06-10-2021, 06:37 PM   #75
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I can’t access the article but would be interested in how family wealth is preserved over 600 years! I’m going to guess that arranged marriages to others of similar stature, even cousins, and the headright system in which the oldest son inherits everything and the other siblings get nothing, are the central mechanisms.

I don’t think that would work so well in our country where divorce is allowed and laws protect all heirs equally. Both reforms tend to dissipate family wealth, as well as overextended lifestyles, debt, taxes and unfortunate business ventures. So, I can’t agree it’s a “lie”, since I’ve seen small and large fortunes go poof in my lifetime.
The "they" lie line was a poor attempt at humor.
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Old 06-10-2021, 07:30 PM   #76
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Old 06-10-2021, 10:57 PM   #77
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Don't conflate the book title with the actual intent of the points he makes.
I sort of thought that was the purpose of a book title.
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Old 06-11-2021, 02:44 AM   #78
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I can see his point, but for us we have to weigh that against the advice in The Millionaire Next Door about economic outpatient care. Our adult kids are very career motivated now and making good financial decisions. I would hate to screw that up. We paid for most college costs, first cars, first apartment furnishings, and health insurance before they had jobs with comprehensive plans. I'm not sure how much else would be best for them in the long run, except for maybe help with houses. One of my best friends from back home was from one of the few mult-millionaire families in town, never had to work for anything and it kind of destroyed any motivation to finish college or engage in a career, even though her parents meant well.


I agree 100%. We don’t have children, but we have several close friends who do. The ones who subsidize their kids’ lifestyles generally have kids who are less driven and successful in their careers. The ones with kids who know they have to make it on their own after graduating from university have kids who are thriving career-wise.

Having said that, sponsoring family trips or experiences is a nice way to share wealth and spend quality time together.
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Old 06-11-2021, 04:44 AM   #79
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I sort of thought that was the purpose of a book title.
The publisher picks the book title, and sometimes it doesn’t. It’s often picked to grab attention and the author is ceitized later. “End of Alzheimer’s” by Dale Bredesen is a good example - harsh blowback.
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Old 06-11-2021, 05:36 AM   #80
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I agree 100%. We don’t have children, but we have several close friends who do. The ones who subsidize their kids’ lifestyles generally have kids who are less driven and successful in their careers. The ones with kids who know they have to make it on their own after graduating from university have kids who are thriving career-wise.

Having said that, sponsoring family trips or experiences is a nice way to share wealth and spend quality time together.
DW and I try to instill the values and skills in our children that led to our success. We do occasionally help our adult children with flight upgrades, etc... but more importantly instead of giving them fish we try to teach them how to go fishing. Literally took my 25 year old DD on a 24 hour tuna hunt out of New Jersey. We talked finance most of the trip.
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