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Old 06-17-2021, 06:50 AM   #121
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I'm really appreciating this book and discussion here. For me, Die with Zero has inspired me to take an account of all the amazing experiences I've already had, and now I'm putting together a list of things I would like to do while I'm able-bodied and motivated to do so.

I've been struggling with OMY for a couple years now, and had been planning to downshift or retire in October. But the housing market has thrown me for a loop and now I'm really confused as to how to proceed. I had a chat with my boss yesterday and they want to renew my contract for 2 more years. I'm on the fence, but based on this discussion I'm thinking that since I've got *enough* I might direct additional monies while I continue to work to bucket list stuff like going to Antarctica while saving for a bigger down payment.

Trouble is, I'll still be answering to Megacorp. I've got a decent vacation policy and WFH helps me slip away a bit, but it's a dilemma for sure. I feel stuck. Do I stop and enjoy my time, or stick around and solve my housing dilemma?
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Old 06-17-2021, 07:28 AM   #122
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I'm really appreciating this book and discussion here. For me, Die with Zero has inspired me to take an account of all the amazing experiences I've already had, and now I'm putting together a list of things I would like to do while I'm able-bodied and motivated to do so.

Trouble is, I'll still be answering to Megacorp. I've got a decent vacation policy and WFH helps me slip away a bit, but it's a dilemma for sure. I feel stuck. Do I stop and enjoy my time, or stick around and solve my housing dilemma?
I'm in a somewhat similar situation and decided to keep going as telework makes everything so easy....well....tolerable. For me, the 90 minute commute each way was my Achilles heel. We don't use cameras for our remote meetings, so while it is still work it's not oppressive. I'm committing for two years and will evaluate at the 18 month mark if I want to continue or not.
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Old 06-17-2021, 07:53 AM   #123
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Just finished reading the book. Had a lot of good points. The book reinforces my thinking of buying an immediate annuity to hedge against longevity risk. My current plan is to take about 5-10% of my liquid assets to purchase an immediate annuity around the time I start collecting social security.

Main takeaway for me was don't put off doing what I want to do. In my younger days, I'd say "it can wait till next year" but that's no longer valid and I need to think more along the lines of if I don't do it now I may never get another opportunity.
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Old 06-17-2021, 09:43 AM   #124
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I'm in a somewhat similar situation and decided to keep going as telework makes everything so easy....well....tolerable. For me, the 90 minute commute each way was my Achilles heel. We don't use cameras for our remote meetings, so while it is still work it's not oppressive. I'm committing for two years and will evaluate at the 18 month mark if I want to continue or not.
"Tolerable" is the operative word! I feel like I can handle keeping on, but do I really WANT to?? I think if it weren't for the house situation I'd bail.

Glad your commute is gone. So far mine is too though there are rumors about us being brought back in at some point.
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Old 06-17-2021, 09:57 AM   #125
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Sorry this has happened. Sounds like you are making the best of it. You’re right, we are only 60 and 62 and while we are both healthy with no chronic conditions, we’ve started to struggle with minor injuries that still impact what we can do.

We also have started to develop some health issues that have slowed down some of our activities at similar ages. I'm hoping for a full recovery for both of us. But if not, we're especially glad we FIREd and have ten years of action packed retirement behind us.
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Old 06-19-2021, 11:30 AM   #126
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I have started reading this book. It is an interesting perspective and very different from other financial books that I have read.

While the book is interesting, it doesn’t resonate with me. My default setting is frugality. However, I do like his emphasis on spending on things/experiences that will enhance your life right now. It is good to remember to do the things you can enjoy right now because the opportunity will eventually diminish. My privileged, first world whine last year was that I regretted losing a good travel year while DH and I still have health and energy. I did keep this whine to myself realizing how very fortunate I was to even consider that.
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Old 06-19-2021, 12:10 PM   #127
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We also have started to develop some health issues that have slowed down some of our activities at similar ages. I'm hoping for a full recovery for both of us. But if not, we're especially glad we FIREd and have ten years of action packed retirement behind us.
+1. Thinking back, I'm so glad I didn't listen to all those people telling me all the time, "what's your rush" or to "hold my horses, there's plenty of time" to do this or do that. Same with ER'ing... Life's is far to short!
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Old 06-19-2021, 10:37 PM   #128
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I'm really appreciating this book and discussion here. For me, Die with Zero has inspired me to take an account of all the amazing experiences I've already had, and now I'm putting together a list of things I would like to do while I'm able-bodied and motivated to do so.

I've been struggling with OMY for a couple years now, and had been planning to downshift or retire in October. But the housing market has thrown me for a loop and now I'm really confused as to how to proceed. I had a chat with my boss yesterday and they want to renew my contract for 2 more years. I'm on the fence, but based on this discussion I'm thinking that since I've got *enough* I might direct additional monies while I continue to work to bucket list stuff like going to Antarctica while saving for a bigger down payment.

Trouble is, I'll still be answering to Megacorp. I've got a decent vacation policy and WFH helps me slip away a bit, but it's a dilemma for sure. I feel stuck. Do I stop and enjoy my time, or stick around and solve my housing dilemma?


My experience may or may not resonate with you. When I turned in my resignation to RE, my boss asked me what it would take for me to stay for several more months. I thought about it, and realized that no matter what terms I was offered, nothing was enough. I wouldn’t have turned in my notice if I didn’t feel we had more than enough to fund our desired retirement, so there wasn’t any amount of money that could motivate me to give up the time to be free with DH and pursue our ER dreams together.

If additional funds would materially impact your retirement standard of living, that’s a different story. In that case, I completely understand the OMY syndrome.
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Old 06-20-2021, 07:45 AM   #129
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I'm currently reading the book. I have no kids and my brother's kids will be fine as he's done well for himself so it's in my interest to spend more now while I'm still able to enjoy it rather then leaving money to distant relatives.

This topic also came up with a friend of mine a few months ago. He's 59 and owns a successful business, a paid off house, a cottage, and a few nice toys. Neither him or his wife have kids or nieces and nephews and they're starting to think about spending sooner rather than later.
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Old 07-04-2021, 01:51 PM   #130
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This sounds like a book I'd like to read, but I've also been listening a lot to the Retirement and IRA podcast with Chris and Jim, and their process is all about planning for your essentials in retirement (housing, health care, food, etc) plus any estate/inheritance requirements you might have and then coming up with the "fun number," which is the money you have left to do with what you wish. They also talk about the Go Go years vs the No Go years, and how it's better to front-load your fun spending because at some point you're not going to be able to do the same things.

DH died at 55 (and soon I will hit that) and we did a whole lot of traveling and dining out before he died, thankfully. With no kids I now have more than enough money, and I don't really want nieces and nephews to suddenly become rich when their aunt dies. I'm still working, but after a lovely two-week vacation I'm starting to think the time has come to have The Talk with my boss. It's just not money I need.
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Old 07-04-2021, 03:42 PM   #131
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Interesting discussion. I think I'll pass on the book. I've read the amazon reviews and the comments here, and I don't see him saying anything I don't already know. Yes, we're all going to die, and we shouldn't live life on auto-pilot. Yes, experiences can be a source of happiness. Yes, it's important to enjoy your money while you can. You shouldn't just live to amass wealth. You shouldn't live like a Scrooge. All true, but nothing that comes as a surprise to me.

I appreciate the discussion, though. It's always good to be reminded. I am two years into retirement, and I've been watching my portfolio continue to balloon despite my withdrawals. If this continues, I'll die with a truckload of money in the bank. On the one hand, I'm okay with that -- it'll go to charities where it will do a lot of good, and to some relatives. I'm not going to be in the afterlife, kicking myself for not taking an Alaskan cruise. I'll probably have better things to do.

On the other hand, I would like to enjoy my money more, while I can. I know that in order to do that, I'll have to make some adjustments.

I seem to have two barriers. One is my lifelong habit of simple living, which is not just a habit; it's a set of values and philosophy. It's not so easy to just shift into a "spend = happiness" mindset.

The second is my personality, which is very introverted and sort of intellectual. Most of the interesting stuff happens on the inside for me, not in external activities or circumstances. When I hear the standard stories in this area -- people travelling, taking big vacations, buying vehicles, getting their house remodeled, etc. -- it doesn't resonate. I'm not particularly interested in those things. So even if I want to spend more money, I find it challenging to come up with things that I enjoy and find meaningful, and which also cost money. It's a short list. Most of the things that I find satisfying don't cost much.

I could probably loosen the purse strings a little and enjoy things more, though. It's always good to be reminded.

Maybe I'll become a Sugar Daddy.
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Old 07-04-2021, 09:28 PM   #132
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I seem to have two barriers. One is my lifelong habit of simple living, which is not just a habit; it's a set of values and philosophy. It's not so easy to just shift into a "spend = happiness" mindset.
I feel the same way and I can't spend just to spend. But I've taken a few small steps:

- I bought a second acoustic guitar to leave at the cabin rather than carry the only one I have back and forth.
- I'm expanding the deck at the cabin. It's a decent size but we want it a little bigger.
- I bought a new set of cordless tools

Those are all small purchases that technically aren't necessary or very expensive but I'll get enjoyment from them. I won't waste money just to spend it but I won't be around forever so I may as well make use of some of the money now.
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Old 07-04-2021, 10:32 PM   #133
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I'm doing the same based on my experience. I had a aunt leave me $75k when she passed. That money allowed us to use a portion to adopt two children. Because of her she changed two children's lives and ours as well. I'll never forget her and what she did for me.....
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I doubt that I could think of a better way to spend part of an inheritance if I tried. I'd be absolutely thrilled if any money I left behind was used in that way. You've made my evening with that story!
+1

What is less than what people spend on a car that depreciates down to nothing in a few years can change someone else's life.

Don't we all hope our donation/gift/inheritance be used so effectively?
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Old 07-05-2021, 08:42 AM   #134
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ERE, I had the same thoughts about 'nothing new', and after reading it there really was not much new... maybe a spin on an existing idea or two. But reading it strengthened the argument and generated momentum in the direction of gaining life experiences. The default is to keep doing the same thing, and when you have a stash and only so many years, it's easy to keep doing your standard thing. Getting a little energy from reading the book was a good thing, I think.
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Old 07-05-2021, 09:20 AM   #135
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I've been reading in fits and starts (due to 'glorious' travel.) Has there been a discussion of long-term-care? One of my few "black swans" that I keep an eye on. DW and I are both developing some chronic issues that may eventually mean LTC. Other than that, inflation and the bogey man, I'm not too worried going forward. YMMV
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Old 07-05-2021, 03:27 PM   #136
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I seem to have two barriers. One is my lifelong habit of simple living, which is not just a habit; it's a set of values and philosophy. It's not so easy to just shift into a "spend = happiness" mindset.

The second is my personality, which is very introverted and sort of intellectual. Most of the interesting stuff happens on the inside for me, not in external activities or circumstances. When I hear the standard stories in this area -- people travelling, taking big vacations, buying vehicles, getting their house remodeled, etc. -- it doesn't resonate. I'm not particularly interested in those things. So even if I want to spend more money, I find it challenging to come up with things that I enjoy and find meaningful, and which also cost money. It's a short list. Most of the things that I find satisfying don't cost much.

I could probably loosen the purse strings a little and enjoy things more, though.


I can so relate to this. It’s hard for me to find anything that costs lots a money that I really like. I also have done the cheaper alternative to many things for so long it seems unnecessary to spend the money. For example I like to read, but while I occasionally buy a book most I download from the library. Or I could easily afford to dry clothes in the dryer, but I enjoy hanging them out…which I did this morning 😁. People around me tend to read those things negatively and feel I should live a little, but I like my quiet interverted life.

I am also long divorced, no kids. I have several nieces, but I don’t feel any huge obligation to them. Actually I’m not sure they should inherit a lot, for there own goods. This poses a big Dilemma to me. Wish I could come up with an answer
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Old 07-05-2021, 04:38 PM   #137
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ERE, I had the same thoughts about 'nothing new', and after reading it there really was not much new... maybe a spin on an existing idea or two. But reading it strengthened the argument and generated momentum in the direction of gaining life experiences. The default is to keep doing the same thing, and when you have a stash and only so many years, it's easy to keep doing your standard thing. Getting a little energy from reading the book was a good thing, I think.
Yes. I see how a reminder of these basic truths can be helpful. It's easy to get into habits that dull your sense of life. Reading the thread has served that purpose for me -- it's jump-started my pondering. Thank you to those who've participated.

I've realized two things so far.

First is that I need to identify the experiences that I value, because when I listen to activities listed by others (e.g., big vacations, home additions, expensive restaurants, vehicles, etc.), they don't interest or inspire me. I need to spend time identifying the experiences that are meaningful and satisfying to me.

I'm fortunate that I've kept a journal since age 18, and from that journal, I've distilled a 40-some page document that describes my best moments from each year. It's a wonderful way to re-vivify events that would otherwise be forgotten. I've often thought that if my house were to catch on fire, this would be one of the first things I'd rescue. I've been re-reading that document this afternoon, as a way of helping me identify what sort of experiences matter to me. Literature, ideas, nature, music, and love standout (although the "love" part is a little iffy, since the entries I'm reading at the moment are from my 20's, when I was full of hormones).

The second thing I realized is that the word "happiness" seems too pale to describe the sorts of experiences I'm thinking of. I have trouble finding the words, but to me, "meaningful," "deep," "powerful," or "enriching" get at it better. "Happiness" (even in its "eudamonia" forms) sounds pretty much equivalent to pleasant feelings. Those are good, of course, but to me, life is about more than pleasant feelings. Some of my best experiences have not been "happy happy joy joy" moments, but filled with complex feelings and ideas.

I hope that didn't sound pretentious. I'm just trying to make the point that, for me, the "experience" question is a tricky one.

I know you have an interest in stoicism. That's another example. I got more satisfaction from reading Seneca's Letters to a Stoic than I would from a dozen cruises. That is the sort of "experience" I'm thinking of. Well, that's the rational half, anyway. There is also a more artistic/experiential/spiritual half. But I'm rattling on...

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I can so relate to this. It’s hard for me to find anything that costs lots a money that I really like. I also have done the cheaper alternative to many things for so long it seems unnecessary to spend the money. For example I like to read, but while I occasionally buy a book most I download from the library. Or I could easily afford to dry clothes in the dryer, but I enjoy hanging them out…which I did this morning ��. People around me tend to read those things negatively and feel I should live a little, but I like my quiet interverted life.
Yeah, it's tough to reverse a lifelong course of simple living. To be honest, I don't want to. One of the secrets of contentment is to not let your "wants" expand. So why expand them?

To me, though, simple living (simplicity, minimalism) is not about saving money. I buy books all the time. I throw many of them away half-read. I waste money on dumb stuff all the time, and I don't sweat it. To me, simple living is less about saving money and more about unplugging from a materialistic society that programs people to think in terms of consuming and buying. It is about getting out of a materialist/consumer mindset and freeing up time for what really matters.

Even so, regardless of how many books or music CDs I buy, or how many off-the-wall purchases I make, I don't make a dent in my savings. It's all small potatoes, and my portfolio is growing by leaps and bounds. Which is a good problem to have.

The only big-ticket items I can think of are 1) a newer home in a nicer neighborhood, and 2) a truck and camper rig that would enable me to do some camping. I haven't pulled the trigger on either of those yet, though.
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Old 07-05-2021, 06:48 PM   #138
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To me, simple living is less about saving money and more about unplugging from a materialistic society that programs people to think in terms of consuming and buying. It is about getting out of a materialist/consumer mindset and freeing up time for what really matters.

We also try to unplug from being consumers, especially corporate consumers. We needed a new book case recently and found an all wood book case at a Habitat for Humanity store for $20. The same book case is on Amazon for $240. The saving money part is nice, but for us it is also about keeping good condition, non-toxic furniture out of landfills and having the money go to a local charity charity.
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Old 07-07-2021, 12:46 PM   #139
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I agree with what many have said...if you enjoy things that just happen to be free or inexpensive it can be hard to spend money.

- I play in a few bands and my gear is paid for so it costs nothing. In fact, most years I make a profit from gigging.
- I like reading but books are cheap or free from the library.
- I golf but green fees rarely exceed $1000 each year.
- We enjoy cooking but you have to eat anyway.
- We like to relax on the deck but after the initial cost of a deck, fire table, and gazebo ($3000) it costs nothing other than a tank of propane every now and then.
- We go away for a couple months each winter but that only costs $4000 - $5000.
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Old 07-07-2021, 02:27 PM   #140
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I agree with what many have said...if you enjoy things that just happen to be free or inexpensive it can be hard to spend money.

- I play in a few bands and my gear is paid for so it costs nothing. In fact, most years I make a profit from gigging.
- I like reading but books are cheap or free from the library.
- I golf but green fees rarely exceed $1000 each year.
- We enjoy cooking but you have to eat anyway.
- We like to relax on the deck but after the initial cost of a deck, fire table, and gazebo ($3000) it costs nothing other than a tank of propane every now and then.
- We go away for a couple months each winter but that only costs $4000 - $5000.
The author has a longer chapter on finding the right balance between more spending for expanded experiences.
- You could find a way to donate to music development in schools. Wife's niece is a music teacher and asks for public funding of instruments for the students. We help out there.
- High school golf team would likely appreciate help from enthusiasts in the community.

I'll leave the rest to your imagination. We're gonna focus more on creating experience for ourselves and others.
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