Die With Zero - Book

[ER Eddie]

I ordered the book, even though I said I knew it all already. It won't hurt to hear it again, from someone else, from different angles, in different words. It's an important idea.

I found the discussion here thought-provoking. As part of it, I'm considering moving. I'd scrapped the idea several times before, but now I'm resurrecting it. Back from the dead... Planning a trip to scout locations in NW Arkansas. Terrible time to buy property, but what the hell. You only reincarnate a couple hundred times.

[Chuckanut]

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Originally Posted by Danalyst At 71, the book inspired me to take my daughter this fall on a big trip to Bhutan. Expensive, but the memories we’ll share are worth more than leaving an inheritance. I know that I can tighten my belt when necessary if it comes to that, even to the extent of moving offshore.

I took my oldest to Europe with me a few years ago. It was one of the best trips ever. I want to take the youngest also, but she wants to wait until the grandkid will be old enough to remember it. She says age 10. I am hoping for 8 years old.

My biggest problem with spending more is that I don't want to spend more for the sake of spending more. That would not be very satisfactory. I will probably do the travel route for a few more years, booking a singles room/cabin. Maybe I will meet Miss Traveler and find a somewhat adventuresome woman who wants a retired gentleman of modest but independent means for a partner.

[sengsational]

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Originally Posted by Koolau I've been reading in fits and starts (due to 'glorious' travel.) Has there been a discussion of long-term-care? One of my few "black swans" that I keep an eye on. DW and I are both developing some chronic issues that may eventually mean LTC. Other than that, inflation and the bogey man, I'm not too worried going forward. YMMV

He suggests LTCI. He suggests a lot of insurance type actions, like fixed life annuities. Without those, the idea goes, you'd have to have reserves that would only get spent in the worst case scenario, thus likely dieing with greater than zero. Not saying I agree, but that's what I understood.

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Originally Posted by ER Eddie I ordered the book, even though I said I knew it all already. It won't hurt to hear it again, from someone else, from different angles, in different words.

I think you'll be glad you did. You might not find some exactly example of worthwhile new experiences, but it might get you thinking anew about those kinds of things.

[BoodaGazelle]

Don't take on new debt. Even temporarily. Sell the rental units or whatever.

Just my two cents.

[FIYes]

Finished the book and in a way I found it somewhat negative. I agree with the reminder that life is short and it is important to use your money while can.

However, rather than inspire me, this book depressed me. I felt that the author seemed to think that it was all over by 60 with very few enjoyable experiences to be had. As a senior citizen I still find many enjoyable experiences. Also, no need to tell me that I should have gone on adventures in my twenties and thirties, that ship has sailed.

[target2019]

I'm still on the middle chapter "Balance Your Life." There are a number of illustrations which quickly explain what the author means by balance. It's not that these are new ideas, but the way balance is discussed, along with the graphics, gets one thinking. Many of the graphics are included with this synopsis:
https://blog.investingnote.com/learn...ero-guestpost/

What is happening to me as I read the book in spurts is that my mind wanders to shared family experiences in the past 35 years, and how significant or not I now think they happen to be. So in a way the $15 book has enabled immeasurable satisfaction by jarring many memories.

[ER Eddie]

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Originally Posted by FIYes I felt that the author seemed to think that it was all over by 60

Damn, I've only got 6 weeks to live it up.

[teejayevans]

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Originally Posted by FIYes Finished the book and in a way I found it somewhat negative. I agree with the reminder that life is short and it is important to use your money while can. However, rather than inspire me, this book depressed me. I felt that the author seemed to think that it was all over by 60 with very few enjoyable experiences to be had. As a senior citizen I still find many enjoyable experiences. Also, no need to tell me that I should have gone on adventures in my twenties and thirties, that ship has sailed.

Thanks for the review…that’s all needed to know.

[NW-Bound]

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Originally Posted by ER Eddie Damn, I've only got 6 weeks to live it up.

You are a youngster. I am several years past my prime. I am burnt toast.

[ER Eddie]

The author is 52. He's a hedge fund manager, film producer, and poker player. He's got a bazillion dollars.

I wouldn't consider him expert on anything -- certainly not on what it's like to be 60.

[daylatedollarshort]

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Originally Posted by ER Eddie The author is 52. He's a hedge fund manager, film producer, and poker player. He's got a bazillion dollars. I wouldn't consider him expert on anything -- certainly not on what it's like to be 60.

Correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't read the book, but it doesn't seem to be a research based book, just someone's opinion who doesn't seem like they would even relate to those living a middle class / upper middle class lifestyle in retirement, which is where I'm at.

Many of the people in our senior clubs are pretty active and traveling into their early 80s, but they do seem to slow down after that.

[ER Eddie]

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Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort Correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't read the book, but it doesn't seem to be a research based book, just someone's opinion who doesn't seem like they would even relate to those living a middle class / upper middle class lifestyle in retirement, which is where I'm at.

I haven't read the book either -- it better hurry up and get here; I've only got 6 weeks before I can't do anything besides play shuffleboard -- but I get that impression too. Economically, he's in the stratosphere. I read he made a lot of dough off Goldman Sachs in the 2008 recession.

He's a high-stakes poker player and hedge fund manager, which to me suggests he is a high-risk, excitement-driven type person, who places a lot of value on money. I wonder if part of the reason he wrote the book is to remind himself and other people like him that there is more to life than just piling up money. Given the excitement/risk-oriented personality I think he has, I expect a "grab the gusto" type message.

[levindb]

Just finished the book...my thoughts:

1. I agree with his concepts that you should give with a warm hand (alive) rather than a cold hand (dead).
2. I agree that experiences can be more rewarding than things.

3. I disagree that your prime years are 45-60 and you go downhill rapidly after that. I believe you can spend time and/or money to help maintain your good health, and people should do that. My wife and I did a mini triathlon last year in the Everglades, but I also see quite a few of my peers who cannot walk up a flight of stairs. I am 71 right now, and we kayak, bike, or hike on a daily basis. We also do Bikram Yoga 4 days each week. (google it)

I think the author focuses too much on Net Worth and not enough on Cash Flow. If you have SS and Pension income, for example, you may not need much of a nest egg later in life...but he really does not mention sources of income much.

His focus on DOING THINGS is spot on for this community. Once we stop doing things, I believe we can deteriorate quickly. Each of us should spend time putting together a time oriented bucket list as he suggests. Give your retirement and your life some purpose.

[RobbieB]

I'mma gonna go visit my boat guy next week!

The market made me more dough last month than ever, a new high! So, off to Stockton and a visit with boat dude and stop by the marina on the way home to see about a slip.

Get this money hole in the water fired up before it's fall striper season -

[FANOFJESUS]

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Originally Posted by RobbieB I'mma gonna go visit my boat guy next week! The market made me more dough last month than ever, a new high! So, off to Stockton and a visit with boat dude and stop by the marina on the way home to see about a slip. Get this money hole in the water fired up before it's fall striper season -

How much do you think the boat will cost?

[RobbieB]

Around 10 grand, I buy old boats in good shape with reliable motors. Nothing shiny and new, but it won't leave me stranded on the river. My boat guy and I go back decades, lotta good times down the river.

The slip will be another say $150/month and my boat guy does all the pull in/out service because I don't do trailers.

[rodi]

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Originally Posted by ER Eddie Damn, I've only got 6 weeks to live it up.

I'm better off than you - I've got 9 weeks to live it up.

[RobbieB]

I'm 6 years past living it up. But I'mma gonna get me another boat -

[FANOFJESUS]

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Originally Posted by RobbieB Around 10 grand, I buy old boats in good shape with reliable motors. Nothing shiny and new, but it won't leave me stranded on the river. My boat guy and I go back decades, lotta good times down the river. The slip will be another say $150/month and my boat guy does all the pull in/out service because I don't do trailers.

OK so not a big deal not a blow the dough thread.

[ER Eddie]

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Originally Posted by levindb 3. I disagree that your prime years are 45-60 and you go downhill rapidly after that. I believe you can spend time and/or money to help maintain your good health, and people should do that. My wife and I did a mini triathlon last year in the Everglades, but I also see quite a few of my peers who cannot walk up a flight of stairs. I am 71 right now, and we kayak, bike, or hike on a daily basis. We also do Bikram Yoga 4 days each week. (google it)

That's great, man, good to hear. I'm 59 and not half that active. Good for you.

I think generalizations based on age are dangerous to our psyches. There is good research showing that if people believe they will deteriorate as they get older, that belief becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. And conversely, if they don't believe that, it doesn't happen. So our beliefs about aging (internalized agism?) play an important role in our fate.

I'm much healthier now than I was a decade ago. I know there will be a point where things began to fall off (hopefully not literally), but my sense is, that won't happen for a decade or more.

People always throw out averages (e.g., average age when you "decline"), but it's important to remember averages are gross oversimplifications of reality. They conceal huge variability in individual outcomes.

Also, I think "decline" depends very much on the activity we're talking about. I probably won't be doing high-difficulty mountain bike trails when I'm 70, for instance, but I don't care, because I'm not interested in that, even now. Can I walk around the block? Can I lift a 50 pound sack? Can I ride my bike? Can I hike a moderate trail? That's all I need to do.

The other stuff I'm interested in (e.g., reading and writing) is more a question of intellectual fortitude, not physical. Everything seems to get framed in physical terms. That's important, no doubt, but I'm more concerned about cognitive decline than physical. If I'm hobbling a little when I'm 80, that's fine. If I can't read or write, I'm going to be disturbed.

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Originally Posted by rodi I'm better off than you - I've got 9 weeks to live it up.

I'll save you a spot on the shuffleboard court.