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Old 01-12-2017, 06:37 AM   #21
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My buddy certainly wasn't blindsided, he willfully chose to ignore his spouse. working thru the issues with "wow, I messed up big time" is what is crushing him. In fact she actually gave him two years warning and he still didn't do anything.
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Old 01-12-2017, 06:50 AM   #22
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OK, I assumed he felt blindsided. Now that you have explained further, I have even less sympathy! He is probably on the old people's dating sites already, looking for the proverbial nurse-with-a-purse.

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My buddy certainly wasn't blindsided, he willfully chose to ignore his spouse. working thru the issues with "wow, I messed up big time" is what is crushing him. In fact she actually gave him two years warning and he still didn't do anything.
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Old 01-12-2017, 06:57 AM   #23
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Yes, his behavior is the cause of his current suffering, but I still have empathy for him.

He and I were similar in that I think we both figured RE/FIRE would solve most problems and that is just flat out wrong. I should have put as much effort into my relationship(s) as I did FIRE if not more. Painful lesson - money can't solve all problems.
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:30 AM   #24
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No doubt the financials are an important aspect of divorce. But in the end it will often be the emotional factors that are the most important. I am still haunted by my 8 year old daughter holding on to me that night I left and telling me how much she loved me. Luckily our relationship survived and things have worked out very well, but for many it ends badly.
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:10 AM   #25
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Been there done that, set me back 10 yrs financially and like Ha I didn't want the divorce. I was still madly in love with her but she said 'I love you but not in love with you'. Then she hired a lawyer with a reputation and tried to take me to the cleaners. Even in my emotional state I was in on advice from close friends I fought back rather than rolling over and ended up with a 50/50 custody as well as 50/50 on the assets too. This happened when I was in my early 30s. Now that I look back I'm glad I fought back or I would've regretted not doing so even though it cost me a lot of money.

Now the current gf is getting antsy after 5+ yrs and wants us to tie the knot, I'm perfectly fine with being bf/gf forever but she wants 'to be married'. Financially we're pretty far apart even though she doesn't have any debt but very little savings. I'll be getting a pre-nup but that doesn't mean the future assets (since I'm in the accumulation phase) will necessarily be considered mine vs. community property. I hear pre-nups can be side-stepped fairly easily.
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:55 AM   #26
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Been there done that, set me back 10 yrs financially and like Ha I didn't want the divorce. I was still madly in love with her but she said 'I love you but not in love with you'. Then she hired a lawyer with a reputation and tried to take me to the cleaners. Even in my emotional state I was in on advice from close friends I fought back rather than rolling over and ended up with a 50/50 custody as well as 50/50 on the assets too. This happened when I was in my early 30s. Now that I look back I'm glad I fought back or I would've regretted not doing so even though it cost me a lot of money.

Now the current gf is getting antsy after 5+ yrs and wants us to tie the knot, I'm perfectly fine with being bf/gf forever but she wants 'to be married'. Financially we're pretty far apart even though she doesn't have any debt but very little savings. I'll be getting a pre-nup but that doesn't mean the future assets (since I'm in the accumulation phase) will necessarily be considered mine vs. community property. I hear pre-nups can be side-stepped fairly easily.
I have heard that about pre-nups, too. Be careful! Would she be satisfied if the two of you just lived together instead, maybe? I hope you can figure out a way to not repeat what you went through in your early 30's.

Frank is a widower, and I am a divorcee, so neither of us wants to ever marry again. BTDT.
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:06 AM   #27
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I'll be getting a pre-nup...
It might be better to say, "We'll be getting a pre-nup..." because both you and your gf will sign the agreement. Your gf will need to understand exactly what she's giving up by signing. Not very romantic, to put it mildly. 😐
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:33 AM   #28
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No doubt the financials are an important aspect of divorce. But in the end it will often be the emotional factors that are the most important. I am still haunted by my 8 year old daughter holding on to me that night I left and telling me how much she loved me. Luckily our relationship survived and things have worked out very well, but for many it ends badly.
In my case it was equitable 50-50 but my boys sided with her. I let them sh*t all over me for 2 years and just kept saying I am here for you. Eventually they came around. I put off ER for 10 years but met another divorcee and we were able to retire after 5 years. That was almost 22 years ago. Now the relationship with grandkids (5) makes it all worth it.

Like W2R, we have a partnership agreement and have no need to marry. Although we do cohabit. But sometimes I think W2R is right. Most conflicts seem to arise from occupying the same space.
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:35 AM   #29
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I've watched marriages end, and it's always painful. Even the amicable divorces still hurt like stink. The venomous ones might as well be fatal.

Before we got hitched, I told DW that the only way out of this marriage was in a wooden box, and that it didn't matter in the least which one of us was in it. I am not so selfish that I wouldn't gladly take the hit. But if she thought divorce was on the table, then the marriage was off it. She agreed.

Incentives work. Now in year 37 of nuptial ecstasy. (Maybe only 36. 1988 wasn't that great.)
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:44 AM   #30
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From 2015 - my post #96

http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...e-77462-5.html

(Been divorced once, widowed once, and am now happily married in the best relationship I've ever had.)
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Old 01-12-2017, 11:01 AM   #31
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In my case it was equitable 50-50 but my boys sided with her. I let them sh*t all over me for 2 years and just kept saying I am here for you. Eventually they came around. I put off ER for 10 years but met another divorcee and we were able to retire after 5 years. That was almost 22 years ago. Now the relationship with grandkids (5) makes it all worth it.
I'm glad it worked out so well for you. In my case my X did everything she could to sabotage my new relationship. Given this, it was a real challenge to maintain my relationship with my daughter. Called her every day and made sure we could spend time together. Movies, the Science Center, Museums, Canada's Wonderland, etc. Has paid off handsomely. My current wife (22 years) and daughter now have a very close relationship. Daughter and I have an unusually good relationship I think.

I have always thought that managing my way through this emotional morass was the most difficult yet important thing I have ever done.
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Old 01-12-2017, 11:33 AM   #32
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I heard a saying once when you get divorced he gets 1/3 she gets 1/3 and the lawyers get 1/3. I don't know how true it is but it sounds about right.
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Old 01-12-2017, 11:39 AM   #33
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All good points on the prenup. Honestly, I sometimes wish I was capable of just being single and still be happy but I just can't be without a female partner in my life and be content. I tried it after my divorce but after about 9-10 months of aimless motorcycling all over the west and other activities it got old pretty fast.
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Old 01-12-2017, 11:41 AM   #34
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Not to change the subject, but there can be a generational aspect to the divorce problem too.


DW and I seem to be doing fine. Married almost 47 yrs and FIRED 10 yrs (me )and 15 yrs (her). And our son (only child) has been married to a gal we love (and who shows affection and respect towards us) for 19 yrs and has 3 great kids.


Nevertheless, while doing estate planning, we put in place protections for our son and the grandkids so that if our son and DIL divorce (who knows?), they are substantially protected in terms of not having to share our assets with DIL. This was easy to do in the case that they divorce while we are still alive. A bit more complicated if they divorce after our deaths.
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:06 PM   #35
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Divorce is certainly bad for the financial health unless one has a spouse who is a hopeless Spenderella, Prince Highlivin, drug addict or mentally unfit. Then the ongoing drain may be worse that a divorce that cuts one's losses.
That was my case, a hopeless spendarina. She couldn't stand to see a dollar in the bank and thought the solution to every "I wanna..." was charge it or take out a loan. That period of time was the only time I've ever bounced a check, been late on a rent payment, been late on a house payment, received a telephone call about an overdue bill, or had to routinely "play the float" to pay basic utilities. I expected to be "house poor" for the first couple of years, everyone else I knew was at that stage of life, but after four years it was getting old and I was way tired of the paycheck-to-paycheck lifestyle.

It was over when she wanted to take out a loan to go on a trip. Where I come from trips are optional luxuries, firmly in the category of "If you can't pay cash you can't afford it". End of discussion and not negotiable. Rock, meet Hard Place.

I do have to give her credit for not trying to make it worse. That divorce was one of the more amicable I've ever heard of, none of the "revenge-seeking" behavior seen so often. No cleaning out of bank accounts, running up a joint credit card or stuff like that.

But really, five years later I was much better off financially.
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:15 PM   #36
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Marriage is grand, divorce is at least a hundred grand.

My ex made me a millionaire- I used to have 2 million.
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:31 PM   #37
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Now the current gf is getting antsy after 5+ yrs and wants us to tie the knot, I'm perfectly fine with being bf/gf forever but she wants 'to be married'. Financially we're pretty far apart even though she doesn't have any debt but very little savings. I'll be getting a pre-nup but that doesn't mean the future assets (since I'm in the accumulation phase) will necessarily be considered mine vs. community property. I hear pre-nups can be side-stepped fairly easily.
Get engaged that will hold her off for a few years !
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Old 01-12-2017, 01:23 PM   #38
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In my case it was equitable 50-50 but my boys sided with her. I let them sh*t all over me for 2 years and just kept saying I am here for you. Eventually they came around.
A friend of mine had a similar problem. His ex-wife told a lot of stories about how he abused her, used drugs, mistreated the children, etc. etc. etc...... He took a lot of grief from her side of the family and even some from his side of the family.

When his oldest son turned 18 he sat dad down and told him the truth - their three kids lived in fear whenever dad was gone for a long workday or overnight. Mom was erratic at best and irrational at other times. The day she left him and the kids, was one of the best days of the kid's life. It took years, but finally that truth got through to the rest of the family, mostly thanks to the oldest son who would no longer let bad-mouthing of his father pass without a comment.
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Old 01-12-2017, 01:32 PM   #39
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Another friend of mine got divorced back in the early 1990's.

He told me, "I am not getting married again. Next time, I will just find a woman I don't like and give her my house." :-)
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Old 01-12-2017, 01:35 PM   #40
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I have only been married once. Never divorced. I would say that one marriage is enough for any man in this day and age. If something happened to my wife, the risk is too great to even think about another marriage. I have one friend that has gotten divorced three times. And married three times...all to the same woman.
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