Do I need a trust / will

[Cobra9777]

I recently calculated that 98% of our net worth is in assets that are either jointly owned with TOD to our 2 kids, or individually owned with spouse as primary beneficiary and kids as 50/50 contingent beneficiaries (and per stirpes). Even our real estate is jointly owned with TOD to the kids. If one of us dies, the survivor gets everything. If we both die at the same time, the kids get everything 50/50, and only the cars and household goods (the other 2%) would potentially go through probate. We also have a will, including living will and durable POA, that we did on legalzoom for less than $200 IIRC.

Our situation is very straightforward... adult children, no prior marriages, no complicated assets or scenarios, and assets that can all be titled with TOD/POD and beneficiaries, and unlikely to exceed estate tax threshold. We spoke with two "reputable" estate attorneys (the ones who are past the stage of offering free steak dinners) and they both spent the entire meeting talking about trusts even after I explained all of the above. So I concluded that, like most other things, DIY makes the most sense for us. YMMV.

[Souschef]

All our accounts are TOD or successor beneficiaries. We also have just gotten POAs and a pour over will.

[Bamaman]

If your business is relatively simple, Willmaker is a program that'll do a simple will, living will, etc. The book that comes with it is worth the money alone--on the subject.

Everyone needs a will.

And having someone on your checking/savings acccounts are not enough. You've also got to have beneficiaries on life insurance policies and 401K's--AND secondary beneficiaries in case you and your wife are in a car wreck.

After my father died, everything rolled over to my mother. When my mother died, we only had to go through probate because she had real estate.

My aunt died, and we'd already liquidated real estate. The only reason we had to probate her will was because she had a percentage ownership in a little real estate corporation that owned an office building. We like to have never got her partners in the building to shell out the $ out of their pockets to buy our "our" stock/ownership.

I just prefer to keep all my business simple--and the estate process very simple.

[brett]

We are in the process of renewing our wills. Incredibly, it was 10 years since we did the last one. Time flies by.

We work with a lawyer who specializes in estates. The cost is small considering that we know it is done correctly, it reflects our current wishes and trust, and that it will make our passing much easier on our executor.

[tmm99]

We don't have a will yet. I tried one online that walks you through (just to see) and I realized that it would be an easy process, except for one big road block - Choosing an executor. We do not have anybody we can trust to be our executor in case both of us go at the same time.

[meierlde]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmm99 We don't have a will yet. I tried one online that walks you through (just to see) and I realized that it would be an easy process, except for one big road block - Choosing an executor. We do not have anybody we can trust to be our executor in case both of us go at the same time.

If you don't have a relative a bank will be glad to do the job for a fee. Your Lawyer should be able to recommend one, or just specify a trust department with some qualifications. Note that any will should leave this as a last resort in any case since the chosen executor may choose not to serve as executor, or be unable to serve.

[Walt34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolius Be aware that attorney's fees for seeing a will through probate can be expensive. If your estate is worth, for example, $1 Million, fees will be around $15K. Not to mention that probate processes can be slow, onerous and complex, especially if there are children from a previous marriage, or ex-spouses.

I guess "expensive" is a relative term. On a $1 million estate that is 1.5% of the estate. Doesn't sound expensive to me and it is probably a lot of work for an estate that size.

State laws on wills is highly state-specific and a will is not a place I would choose to go the cheap route. Sure, if your estate is simple a blank form found on the Internet may work, but a judge may also rule it invalid because some required language is missing. If that happens then the state laws on dying intestate (without a will) go into effect and you will probably not like what happens then. Ex-spouses, relatives you despise, and the like all start to come into the picture.

[tmm99]

Quote:

Originally Posted by meierlde If you don't have a relative a bank will be glad to do the job for a fee. Your Lawyer should be able to recommend one, or just specify a trust department with some qualifications. Note that any will should leave this as a last resort in any case since the chosen executor may choose not to serve as executor, or be unable to serve.

Thank you. I read that you could get a trust company to do the work, and around here, they seem to charge around 2.5%-4% of your asset, and they will not take the job if your asset is less than 1M, etc (although the exact number and the percentage fee seems to vary greatly.). We have enough to qualify now, but I wonder how much money will be left by the time we go.. Well, if we don't have much left, that would kind of solve the whole problem, wouldn't it

[kcowan]

Our wills have a provision to take care of our cats. The last one died a year ago at age 18. I guess it is time to revisit once again.

Time flies!

[OldShooter]

With kids, expecially, you are crazy to not have a will. If one of you dies, your state law for intestates may well give part of your assets to the kids, with someone as trustee. If you both die the kids probably get the estate and the court will pick a trustee for them who will then manage their (formerly your) money. That will probably cost at least two hundred basis points plus mutual fund management fees. The kids will probably get 100% of the money at the ripe and mature age of 18. Do you want any of that? If not, you probably need a trust to manage for the kids. It's not uncommon for a trust to distribute assets based on age, part at 25, 35, and 45 for example. In the mean time the trustee can be empowered however you like; support them completely, pay only for educational expenses, pay for some expenses, etc. And you can name the trustee, someone you trust. (Note that the trustee job is different than the executor job.)

As mentioned, getting a stranger (like a bank) to manage the trust depends on its size. Small trusts, if accepted at all, might be managed by a bank service (aka near-clerical) group that functions almost like a discount broker but charges 2-3%. They will invest in whatever they feel like, including metallic gold, unless the trust includes an investment policy. You probably don't want this. Even if you do, you probably want to set this up ahead of time.

Also, you have personal property. Contents of the house, cars, etc. Who gets that and how will it be divided?

Circling back, what if you die and your wife gets everything smoothly? Is she equipped to do the necessary estate planning for herself? If no, that's another reason to get it done ahead of time. If she is not financially savvy at all, you may want to arrange a trust for her benefit. That has the added benefit of protecting your money from, say, her next husband or from scammers.

The list goes on, and on, and on .... Legal help is necessary.

[meierlde]

I agree wills should at least include clauses that deal with the case that the will belongs to the survivor of a company. Also common are clauses that provide in the event a time of death for both is the same on not determinable, one of the two will be presumed to have died first. You could provide for personal property like, this the heirs pick what they want, and the rest goes to an estate sale. (plus or minus the truing up of value with the estates money) For example if 1 child were to get the house, the other would get the value of the house ...

[OldShooter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by meierlde ... For example if 1 child were to get the house, the other would get the value of the house ...

These are minor children, so there would be conservators or trustees. Named by a court if the OP and his wife don't specify one.

[CaliKid]

Yes you need a will and a trust. Anybody with assets and minor children, living in California, should have both along with financial and medical powers of attorney. You should look for an experienced estate planning attorney in your area.