Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-19-2020, 03:14 PM   #21
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 5,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Souschef View Post
One thing to look out for the phrase per stirpes. That takes the inheritance down the family line. Google it for complete definitions


Please elaborate. When you say “look out” does that mean it’s bad? I am familiar with the phrase and it has a positive connotation in every instance I know of. I can’t recall seeing it on any financial account beneficiary forms. Could’ve missed it.
__________________
...with no reasonable expectation for ER, I'm just here auditing the AP class.Retired 8/1/15.
jazz4cash is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-19-2020, 03:21 PM   #22
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 5,814
All my beneficiaries at Fido and my credit unions are easily verified but it is amazing how I consistently details like contingents are applied. You’d expect a big institution would default to an existing designation when a new account is opened but that could cost you.
OTOH when I tried to set beneficiaries at BOA I decided to not EVER have enough money there to make a difference. I think they really just wanted something from a court after you’re gone directing them to disburse so they gave no liability.
__________________
...with no reasonable expectation for ER, I'm just here auditing the AP class.Retired 8/1/15.
jazz4cash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2020, 03:24 PM   #23
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,731
Prior to retiring my employer sent along a memo reminding us to that it was important to designate beneficiaries for our stock plan, the RSU plan, and our stock options. These can be easily overlooked.
brett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2020, 06:38 PM   #24
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
rk911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: DuPage County IL
Posts: 1,393
yup, we know who they are. why? cuz there ain't many of them. 1 BIL, 1 sister, 1 nephew. as well as a few charities.
__________________
Rich
Ham Radio, Sport Pilot, RVer
FIRE: 8/11/2005, age 55y,1d
Administrator for a regional 9-1-1 call center
rk911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2020, 12:26 AM   #25
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
SecondCor521's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boise
Posts: 5,302
Ever since I read about some people's experiences where beneficiary designations got lost over time, and also having thought about what it would mean if beneficiary designations were missing from certain accounts, I now have an annual item in my tickler file to double check beneficiary designations on all of the bigger accounts I'm responsible for.

@jazz4cash, I agree with you on the "per stirpes". My Dad uses it on his accounts and I also use it on my accounts, because that's what he and I want. If any of us three kids were to predecease my Dad, it is his intent and desire that that kid's share goes to that kid's children. So "per stirpes" makes that happen.

(It also, conveniently enough, provides us with the opportunity to disclaim a portion of the inheritance. This was a better deal when the stretch IRA was around and my kids could stretch an inherited IRA from their grandfather over their lifetimes. Now, with the SECURE Act I'm still thinking of disclaiming but the amounts will probably be different.)
__________________
"At times the world can seem an unfriendly and sinister place, but believe us when we say there is much more good in it than bad. All you have to do is look hard enough, and what might seem to be a series of unfortunate events, may in fact be the first steps of a journey." Violet Baudelaire.
SecondCor521 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2020, 07:45 AM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,075
All of our accounts have the surviving spouse as primary and the 3 kids as secondary (per stirpes). Once a year, I print out the beneficiaries online and put a paper copy in my When I'm Dead book. We also have a TOD deed on our house where it will automatically go to the kids after we're gone - but probably won't have the house by then. Right now, everything is set up to avoid probate.
PatrickA5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2020, 08:35 AM   #27
Moderator
sengsational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,098
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickA5 View Post
We also have a TOD deed on our house where it will automatically go to the kids after we're gone - but probably won't have the house by then. Right now, everything is set up to avoid probate.
In NC, the house passes immediately to the kids, outside of probate, so essentially a TOD deed, I guess. I got a 'how to be an executor' from Nolo. So many variations by state.
sengsational is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2020, 08:43 AM   #28
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Dash man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Limerick
Posts: 3,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldShooter View Post
We just do what our estate planning attorney tells us to do. For my IRA the beneficiary is DW and the contingent beneficiary is my rev trust. Why? I have no idea.

At Schwab, there is a "Beneficiaries" tab on the account "Service" page that tells all. You can change beneficiaries there, too. So if you're at Schwab you can easily answer @kaneohe's question.


Ours is set up the same way, going to the spouse with contingent being the trust. Our attorney was pretty adamant about this setup.
Dash man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2020, 11:32 AM   #29
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldShooter View Post
We just do what our estate planning attorney tells us to do. For my IRA the beneficiary is DW and the contingent beneficiary is my rev trust. Why? I have no idea.

.................................................. .......................
not sure what part the Why? pertains to ............but individuals (esp spouses)
are preferred as beneficiaries since they can stretch the IRA and keep it going.
Other individuals used to be able to do that but new changes have made the stretch shorter. The trust is like a catch-all for the assets remaining.
kaneohe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2020, 11:38 AM   #30
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
OldShooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: City
Posts: 6,507
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaneohe View Post
not sure what part the Why? pertains to ............but individuals (esp spouses) are preferred as beneficiaries since they can stretch the IRA and keep it going. Other individuals used to be able to do that but new changes have made the stretch shorter. The trust is like a catch-all for the assets remaining.
WADR, @kaneohe, please don't try to do your estate planning without professional help.
OldShooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2020, 12:46 PM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 8,269
Quote:
Originally Posted by rk911 View Post
yup, we know who they are. why? cuz there ain't many of them. 1 BIL, 1 sister, 1 nephew. as well as a few charities.
That doesn't necessarily mean you know who they are. Me beneficiaries have always been either DW or DD. But last time I checked on one of my TDAmeritrade accounts the beneficiary was someone I've never heard of. I contacted TDA and they said "oops".

I'm sure had I died it could have been resolved eventually, but it shows that it's not a bad idea to check occasionally, no matter how simple it might seem.
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Anonymous (not Will Rogers or Sam Clemens)
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2020, 04:41 PM   #32
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
rk911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: DuPage County IL
Posts: 1,393
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley View Post
That doesn't necessarily mean you know who they are. Me beneficiaries have always been either DW or DD. But last time I checked on one of my TDAmeritrade accounts the beneficiary was someone I've never heard of. I contacted TDA and they said "oops".

I'm sure had I died it could have been resolved eventually, but it shows that it's not a bad idea to check occasionally, no matter how simple it might seem.
of course i know who they are. i should have been more precise. all of our pist-tax accounts and the house have been re-titled to our family trust. the primary beneficiary for the trust are my wife and myself. upon the second death and for all pre-tax accounts the beneficiaries are the same...my sister, my nephew and my BIL.
__________________
Rich
Ham Radio, Sport Pilot, RVer
FIRE: 8/11/2005, age 55y,1d
Administrator for a regional 9-1-1 call center
rk911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2020, 04:55 PM   #33
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Vung tau
Posts: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by armor99 View Post
Just a word on why listing the beneficiaries on your retirement accounts is SO important.

Recently I got my trust set up, and the lawyer explained to me the from the legal viewpoint, what is written in for the beneficiary on retirement accounts superceedes ANYTHING else. Trusts, wills, whatever...

So for example if you are divorced, get a new will or trust written but forget about changing the name on you 401k account from your ex to your new wife or trust, then on your death your ex WILL get your entire 401k account. From what he said there is NO way out of that unless the ex were to sign some sort of document... and let’s face it... most would never be that altruistic...

It was eye opening learning about that...
Very good information, thanks. Do you know if that is determined by each state? I will be getting married soon and need to think this through carefully.
VungTau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2020, 05:12 PM   #34
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Omaha
Posts: 57
The living trust, will, or any paperwork doesn't determine who inherits your IRA or annuity. It is the beneficiary designation on file for each account at each institution. You don't put it in the living trust because of the tax consequences.

Anyway that's my understanding after meeting with our trust attorney last week. He said many attorney's are not familiar with this aspect.
Oilcan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2020, 05:32 PM   #35
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
SecondCor521's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boise
Posts: 5,302
Quote:
Originally Posted by armor99 View Post
Just a word on why listing the beneficiaries on your retirement accounts is SO important.

Recently I got my trust set up, and the lawyer explained to me the from the legal viewpoint, what is written in for the beneficiary on retirement accounts superceedes ANYTHING else. Trusts, wills, whatever...

So for example if you are divorced, get a new will or trust written but forget about changing the name on you 401k account from your ex to your new wife or trust, then on your death your ex WILL get your entire 401k account. From what he said there is NO way out of that unless the ex were to sign some sort of document... and let’s face it... most would never be that altruistic...

It was eye opening learning about that...
Quote:
Originally Posted by VungTau View Post
Very good information, thanks. Do you know if that is determined by each state? I will be getting married soon and need to think this through carefully.
It does vary by state. My state actually has a law that if you get divorced, then your ex would not get anything even if they were listed as a beneficiary; they are treated - for inheritance purposes - as though they had predeceased you.

I think there's a way to reaffirm if you actually do want it to go to your ex for some reason, but I never looked into that too much as that wasn't my preference.

In general, marriage and divorce laws are state specific, although there are obviously federal laws that also apply.
__________________
"At times the world can seem an unfriendly and sinister place, but believe us when we say there is much more good in it than bad. All you have to do is look hard enough, and what might seem to be a series of unfortunate events, may in fact be the first steps of a journey." Violet Baudelaire.
SecondCor521 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2020, 06:11 PM   #36
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Alameda
Posts: 169
Yes, we had a similar situation to the OP's. Spouse's pension fund changed to a new software upgrade and.....surprise! Little things like beneficiary designations got dropped off.

In our case, we didn't discover it for some years, and then only because I had a new employer with a 401k I joined. Naturally I listed him as beneficiary.

Spouse decided on impulse to check his pension fund records, which we KNEW we had changed way back (15 yrs previous) when we got married. Imagine our shock when we discovered the beneficiary designation was blank in their records!

We corrected that one right away, LOL.
zippy2020 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2020, 07:09 PM   #37
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by statsman View Post
Put the bank accounts under a trust. Specify the beneficiaries in the trust. Only way to be certain, it would seem.
Hi statsman, I don't think one can put IRAs and other special accounts into the Living Revocable Trust.

As to to beneficiaries mentioned on statements I never had that and hope I won't have it either.....
Rosedala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2020, 07:24 PM   #38
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset View Post
I have a bank, and they do not show the beneficiaries on the statement, nor in my Account.
I have to phone, and then they tell me.
For all I know, after I get off the phone, the rep changes it to his brother
Sunset, for IRAs and other special accounts, don't you have to have a POD? For some strange reason you can't put them in a Living Trust. Until I decide whom to give the POD, I'm designating my Living Trust as beneficiary. Am I correct?
Rosedala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2020, 07:34 PM   #39
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyman View Post
I’m nowhere near an expert but I do recall reading a book by Ed Slott that strongly advised against naming a trust as a beneficiary on an IRA. As I recall, the reason was that the stretch option would be lost. However, with the recent changes from the SECURE act that advice may not be as relevant (I think? Corrections welcome).
So....the only other way would be a POD right?
Rosedala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2020, 07:49 PM   #40
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaneohe View Post
not sure what part the Why? pertains to ............but individuals (esp spouses)
are preferred as beneficiaries since they can stretch the IRA and keep it going.
Other individuals used to be able to do that but new changes have made the stretch shorter. The trust is like a catch-all for the assets remaining.
kaneohe, I thought it was the Will like a catch-all for the assets remaining. No?
Rosedala is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stuff You Didn't Know You Didn't Know mickeyd Other topics 21 08-07-2017 03:33 PM
"You know ... you know" Sojourner Other topics 60 03-01-2017 12:00 AM
Will/trust disbursement wrt TODs/beneficiaries RunningBum FIRE and Money 3 01-12-2010 01:17 AM
Your accounts will pass to your account beneficiaries regardless of your will JustCurious FIRE and Money 21 03-22-2008 03:35 AM
Naming Beneficiaries JohnDoe FIRE and Money 6 07-02-2007 03:41 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:49 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.