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DQOTD: Soc Sec Spousal Benefits?
01-14-2021, 01:38 PM
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#1
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 21,150
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DQOTD: Soc Sec Spousal Benefits?
Sorry to ask but many sites I look at make it seem confusing. We were both born after Jan 1954. My understanding for our situation: - DW is not eligible for a spousal benefit until I file at age 70, she’ll be 68.
- At that time she’ll be eligible for half my FRA benefit (not half my age 70 amount) - without impacting her own earned benefit.
- When she turns 70, she’s eligible for her own (35+ years) earned benefit OR continuing with half my FRA amount - whichever is greater.
Anything I’m missing?
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57
Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
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01-15-2021, 04:59 AM
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#2
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 21,150
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Surprised, no one knows?
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57
Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
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01-15-2021, 05:57 AM
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#3
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: An island off the coast of Florida. (Ok - if you really need to know it's Vero Beach)
Posts: 633
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You are correct Midpack.
That breakdown is what factors into my estimation that I will claim at 67. DW is also 67, but collects SSDI until FRA. For our situation, delaying until 70 to collect does not necessarily make the best option, but rather claim at FRA.
Things could change - options remain open.
__________________
DW and I are 62/62. 100% equities 31 years. FIRE'd August 2019. Non-cola pension cashed out Dec 2022 before segmentation rates reduced balance - rolled to MM fund, max SS for DH and DW at FRA. Mega retiree health available. IRA rollover from 401k Jan 2020 for NUA treatment. LTCG for 3 years. Next few years will be IRA cash withdrawals or until Stock Market recovers. AA 33% stocks, 67% MM and T-Bills. Rising equity glidepath.
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01-15-2021, 05:57 AM
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#4
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: London/UK (dual US/UK citizen)
Posts: 502
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My understanding is the same as yours. Nothing happens until one of the two claims. At that point the spouse can get half of the other’s FRA if the spouse is at retirement age (otherwise it is reduced until that person hits his/her full retirement date). The spousal amount (50% of other spouse’s FRA) does not change even if the other spouse delays.
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01-15-2021, 06:03 AM
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#5
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,130
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I don't think that is entirely correct. Since she was born after Jan 1, 1954 she no longer gets to choose whether to file for spousal or her own. Once she files, she will be "deemed" to be filing for the maximum amount she is eligible for.
__________________
And whatever your labors and aspirations in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.- Desiderata by Max Ehrmann
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01-15-2021, 06:08 AM
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#6
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,677
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I thought that if one was born after 1954, once you start collecting SS you get either your benefit or the spousal benefit (whichever is greater).
That would suggest that Midpack's third bullet point is incorrect. It the spouse starts getting SS at age 68, she "deemed" to be starting her benefit if it is larger at that time than the spousal benefit.
I think what could be done is Midpack's DW start her own benefit anytime she is eligible before Midpack starts taking his. Once he starts his, she could then get spousal if it is larger than her benefit. (But it may be reduced if she started her benefits before FRA??)
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01-15-2021, 06:51 AM
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#7
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,821
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The only point I am not sure about is that if she decides to take the spousal (50% of your PIA)benefit at 68 if she would be locking herself in at half your FRA (because she filed for benefits and "deemed " to have filed as Molly mentioned above))and thus possibly losing out on her own higher benefit at 70.
This of course would be critical to know.
Obviously you want to her to get half of yours for 2 years before filing for her own at age 70 and I am very interested in this as we will be in a similar scenario because my wife is 3 1/2 years older than me.
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01-15-2021, 06:57 AM
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#8
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Chattanooga
Posts: 497
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I agree with MissMolly and Philliefan. That reasoning went into my/our decision for DW to claim at 62 while I delay to 70. DW gets a small benefit on her record until I claim. She will be entitled to half my FRA benefit (NOT my age 70 benefit), but it will be reduced further by the early claiming penalty.
I think this can be confirmed using Mike Piper's https://opensocialsecurity.com/ calculator. If you plug in your numbers/age-claiming strategy I think you'll see that your DW's benefit will not increase as much as you predict when you claim at 70.
__________________
Currently SKI-ing (spending the Kids' Inheritance)
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01-15-2021, 07:02 AM
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#9
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Dryer sheet aficionado
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 33
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Have you run various scenarios through https://opensocialsecurity.com/ ?
enter your data to get optimal - then scroll all the way to bottom of page and you can customize dates to see the impact to alternative claiming dates. Should be able to answer your questions quantitatively that way.
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01-15-2021, 07:22 AM
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#10
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: On a hill in the Pine Barrens
Posts: 9,670
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I noticed that the file and suspend strategy is no longer listed when I use opensocialsecurity. Gotta be careful with the changes mentioned in other posts.
https://www.aarp.org/retirement/soci...e-and-suspend/
This has been one of the more elusive concepts to fully understand. Either someone comes up with a slightly different phrasing of the question, or I forget what I previously found.
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01-15-2021, 07:37 AM
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#11
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by target2019
I noticed that the file and suspend strategy is no longer listed when I use opensocialsecurity. Gotta be careful with the changes mentioned in other posts.
https://www.aarp.org/retirement/soci...e-and-suspend/
This has been one of the more elusive concepts to fully understand. Either someone comes up with a slightly different phrasing of the question, or I forget what I previously found.
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I believe "file and suspend" is no longer available and was considered a "loophole" by the powers that be. If you were born before jan1 1954 then it was possible a few years ago. Not now.
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01-15-2021, 08:02 AM
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#12
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: On a hill in the Pine Barrens
Posts: 9,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnski1
I believe "file and suspend" is no longer available and was considered a "loophole" by the powers that be. If you were born before jan1 1954 then it was possible a few years ago. Not now.
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Yes, I posted the link to more fully explain file and suspend.
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01-15-2021, 08:04 AM
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#13
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by target2019
Yes, I posted the link to more fully explain file and suspend.
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Ok. I didn't follow the link. Thanks
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01-15-2021, 08:23 AM
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#14
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 21,150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugeater
Have you run various scenarios through https://opensocialsecurity.com/ ?
enter your data to get optimal - then scroll all the way to bottom of page and you can customize dates to see the impact to alternative claiming dates. Should be able to answer your questions quantitatively that way.
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That is a great resource, and I have used it with non-smoker super preferred longevity (see below). But I didn't see any explanation as to why, or a reference to using the spousal benefit as related to her earned benefit. Maybe I am missing that. I was assuming the max benefit would be both of us at 70 since extreme longevity runs in our families, OpenSocSec suggests slightly otherwise.
After reading the responses above (thank you all) - I gather DW gets one shot, half my FRA or her earned benefit - the latter will be the greater so that's what we will do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenSocSec
The strategy that maximizes the total dollars you can be expected to receive over your lifetimes is as follows:
- You file for your retirement benefit to begin 5/2024, at age 70 and 0 months.
- Your spouse files for his/her retirement benefit to begin 8/2024, at age 67 and 11 months.
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__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57
Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
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01-15-2021, 09:44 AM
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#15
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Delmarva
Posts: 221
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"File and restrict" was the one valid only for DOB before 1/1/54, where you could collect spousal while letting your own benefit grow. "File and suspend" went away earlier; it allowed one to file, then suspend, their own benefit, while their spouse collected spousal 1/2.
__________________
"I can't complain, but sometimes I still do." - Joe Walsh, Life's Been Good
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01-15-2021, 09:44 AM
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#16
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack
That is a great resource, and I have used it with non-smoker super preferred longevity (see below). But I didn't see any explanation as to why, or a reference to using the spousal benefit as related to her earned benefit. Maybe I am missing that. I was assuming the max benefit would be both of us at 70 since extreme longevity runs in our families, OpenSocSec suggests slightly otherwise.
After reading the responses above (thank you all) - I gather DW gets one shot, half my FRA or her earned benefit - the latter will be the greater so that's what we will do.
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So will your DW still wait until you turn 70 or haven't you decided? What is her exact FRA age...I'm not sure why OSS is telling her to wait.The total dollars is one thing there is also the benefit of getting two checks for a longer period. Just in case you both don't live until 99. The hit by a bus type thing.
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01-15-2021, 09:49 AM
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#17
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 21,150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivinsfan
So will your DW still wait until you turn 70 or haven't you decided? What is her exact FRA age...I'm not sure why OSS is telling her to wait.The total dollars is one thing there is also the benefit of getting two checks for a longer period. Just in case you both don't live until 99. The hit by a bus type thing.
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Haven't decided, but she's 64, so no rush. And I don't plan by exceptions like 'hit by a bus' - possible but not the most probable circumstances.
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57
Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
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01-15-2021, 10:25 AM
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#18
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack
Haven't decided, but she's 64, so no rush. And I don't plan by exceptions like 'hit by a bus' - possible but not the most probable circumstances.
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I didn't say plan for it, I was just wondering what, if any, weight it would have in your thinking.
A close in law family member just got a 6 month max to live with his apparently untreatable cancer. 65 he and his spouse both worked for similar pay so would have roughly equal SS payments...the loss of one SS check is really going to hurt his wife.
I'm guessing in your case, your choice of payments options isn't really going to impact your finances one way or another. This stuff has just been on my mind this week. Kind of a worse case scenario for SS as far as this couple is concerned.
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01-15-2021, 10:40 AM
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#19
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 21,150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivinsfan
I didn't say plan for it, I was just wondering what, if any, weight it would have in your thinking.
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Zero weight, so no planning whatsover WRT Soc Sec.
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57
Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
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01-15-2021, 10:45 AM
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#20
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack
Zero weight, so no planning whatsover WRT Soc Sec.
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This board is probably full of outliers where SS isn't a major or the major source of retirement income. For some couples it would be the major income in retirement. This board is full of people/couples who have options, which really equate to peace of mind.
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