DW leaving job 3 years early....what to do?

[brokrken]

OK, so I may ramble a bit here, but your advice is appreciated.

Recently, I changed j*bs and got a significant raise in salary and bonus, as well as some pretty healthy stock awards that vest 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 over a 3 year period. Previously, our plan had been for both DW and I to FIRE as soon as DD graduates high school in August 2025. However, with the new gig, we figured in 3 years DW could go ahead and pull the plug, as I would be vesting a full stock award (Three 1/3s) each year at that point, which would more than cover her salary.

Fast forward to yesterday. Her j*b has really been a toxic environment for a while now. But, it pays decent, she works from home and that provides flexibility to handle household and DD duties while I was travelling 1 to 2 weeks per month. Recently, things have gotten so bad that her company has been tracking the amount of time that she (and all other salespeople) is actually on her computer or away. I told her, at this stage in her career if she can't be trusted to get things done on her own schedule (which she does) that she needs to get out of there. So, yesterday she put in her notice.

Now, the question. Does she find another j*b or do we just let her FIRE (can I call it that yet?) 3 years early? I make enough to cover our expenses and still max out my 401k. My annual bonuses will allow us to still travel like we like and in July I'll start getting my 1/3 of the first stock award that will also supplement savings. What we will miss is about $35k-$45k annual savings that we would have socked away over the next 3 years. So, you're talking $10k0-$150k that would grow (or not) until 2025. There's a chance this would cause us to come up short of our goal and push out my FIRE, but that could happen anyway depending on markets

She is dead set on finding a new gig, but only because she doesn't want to derail our plans, which I really appreciate. But, she doesn't really want to work and this would be a great gift to her. Anyway, this group always gives many different perspectives, so your thoughts are much appreciated.

 

[gwraigty]

If $100K to $150K makes the difference in being able to FIRE, you're cutting it too close.

 

[Dtail]

If we have a bear market in the range of a 30-50% drop, would you still be able to fire?
If not, you should think about the timing some more.

 

[tb001]

If we have a bear market in the range of a 30-50% drop, would you still be able to fire?
If not, you should think about the timing some more.

Really? I can understand psychologically why someone might change their plans. But isn’t that the whole point of using firecalc and other historical calculators—so that you know that you can survive the bad scenarios? By this measure, we all need to save twice what’s necessary!

Agree though that the 100-150k shouldn’t impact retirement date by much, though I suppose it depends on sources of income and age—if you’re just trying to bridge a year or two to SS, that could be important.

 

[brokrken]

To both of your points, all I'm saying is that we have numbers that we have run through FireCalc and others that we are comfortable with. When the time comes if we are short of those numbers or have less success rates in FireCalc, even by a little bit, it may cause me to push my FIRE out a year or two. A huge market swing could do the same. So, I don't think it's accurate to say we're cutting it close.

In 6 years, the $150k-$200K could grow to be $300k. Also, failed to mention that we will lose 3 years of her 401k contributions, so add in another $50k, plus any growth in that. On a $3 million portfolio, $300kish is 10% of the total. That's not a small chunk and could change the decision to FIRE.

Dtail, I think anyone that sustains a 50% market drop within a year or 2 of FIRE would have some issues. It's hard to adequately plan for that return sequence.

 

[tb001]

One other question is have is how stable your job is. It sounds like you’re counting on it continuing for a decent number of years. We’ve found that to be a bad assumption as we’ve gotten older.

 

[brokrken]

By this measure, we all need to save twice what’s necessary!

+1

Agree though that the 100-150k shouldn’t impact retirement date by much, though I suppose it depends on sources of income and age—if you’re just trying to bridge a year or two to SS, that could be important.

in 2025, we will be 48 and 53, respectively. That amount could grow to significant sums over the life of our retirement.

 

[brokrken]

One other question is have is how stable your job is. It sounds like you’re counting on it continuing for a decent number of years. We’ve found that to be a bad assumption as we’ve gotten older.

That is definitely a factor to consider since I am relatively new here. However, it is a stable company, and so far I fit very well. On the other hand, my phone rings off the hook with recruiters trying to lure me away constantly, so if I got let go, I think I'd land on my feet pretty quickly. If not, we would, of course, have to adjust. But, if I lost my job for any lengthy period, we'd have to adjust anyway, regardless of current situation.

 

[gwraigty]

On a $3 million portfolio, $300kish is 10% of the total. That's not a small chunk and could change the decision to FIRE.

People really need to learn how to invest for income/cash flow in retirement. Even just a portion of the portfolio helps mitigate concerns about running out of money. I've posted before about getting about 3.5% to 6% cash flow on our investments, some still in individual bonds, but gradually moving to income producing ETFs. Nothing exotic or way out there. $3M would generate $105K to $180K cash flow at those rates, to spend or reinvest as desired.

 

[pb4uski]

What I would suggest is that your DW "casually" look for a new and better job for a few months (or more).... if a great job offer comes along and she wants to do it, then go for it... otherwise she can chill for a few months, recharge her batteries and if she decides that she wants to work she can look for a job.

42 or 47 is pretty young to retire, particularly if she wants to work.

 

[pacergal]

It sounds like your wife is not as comfortable with the numbers as you are (since you state she wants to fond a job so it doesn't derail your plans)?
Maybe she could find a less stressful job that would still bring income or go part time?
Or maybe take 6 months or more off sabbatical, then re assess finances to see where you both are at?

 

[brokrken]

What I would suggest is that your DW "casually" look for a new and better job for a few months (or more).... if a great job offer comes along and she wants to do it, then go for it... otherwise she can chill for a few months, recharge her batteries and if she decides that she wants to work she can look for a job.

42 or 47 is pretty young to retire, particularly if she wants to work.

pb, This is what I'm leaning towards advising her to do. And, this really wouldn't be retirement for her. It would be more of a stay at home Mom situation where she would be able to get more involved in school activities and the like.

 

[brokrken]

It sounds like your wife is not as comfortable with the numbers as you are (since you state she wants to fond a job so it doesn't derail your plans)?
Maybe she could find a less stressful job that would still bring income or go part time?
Or maybe take 6 months or more off sabbatical, then re assess finances to see where you both are at?

My wife wouldn't be "comfortable" with the numbers regardless of what they are.

 

[marko]

When the time comes if we are short of those numbers or have less success rates in FireCalc, even by a little bit, it may cause me to push my FIRE out a year or two. A huge market swing could do the same. So, I don't think it's accurate to say we're cutting it close.

Respectfully, it does sound like you're cutting it close. If a big market swing or being short $150K causes your RE to push out a year or two, it tells me that there's very little cushion for a 20-30 year retirement.

You might still be able to RE but there's a chance you could end up in front of a McDonald's fryolator in 10-15 years if things go south; not a risk I'd be willing to take.

JMHO.

 

[Dtail]

Really? I can understand psychologically why someone might change their plans. But isn’t that the whole point of using firecalc and other historical calculators—so that you know that you can survive the bad scenarios? By this measure, we all need to save twice what’s necessary!

Agree though that the 100-150k shouldn’t impact retirement date by much, though I suppose it depends on sources of income and age—if you’re just trying to bridge a year or two to SS, that could be important.

We are effectively saying the same thing. If the Firecalc numbers produce good results and by default it is taking into account bear markets, then there shouldn't be any issue with the 30-50% bear market drop.
So was just asking also from a psychological perspective.

 

[joeea]

she works from home and that provides flexibility to handle household and DD duties while I was travelling 1 to 2 weeks per month. Recently, things have gotten so bad that her company has been tracking the amount of time that she (and all other salespeople) is actually on her computer or away.

While working from home she simultaneously handles household and DD duties? So is she right to be worried that tracking her actual work time would be a problem with work?

Maybe I'm missing something here.

She is dead set on finding a new gig, but only because she doesn't want to derail our plans, which I really appreciate. But, she doesn't really want to work and this would be a great gift to her.

If she doesn't want to work, what does she want to do?

It's not like she can travel, with your daughter still in school.

Seems like it's her call to make. For many couples, retiring at the same time works out well.

 

[brokrken]

While working from home she simultaneously handles household and DD duties? So is she right to be worried that tracking her actual work time would be a problem with work?

Maybe I'm missing something here.

Yes, it is a problem. A great example is the other day, she had a doctor's appointment and there was a comment that she was away from her desk for 2 hours. They are implying that she must not be working very hard if she isn't online continuously during the day, which is complete nonsense. Adults should be allowed to manage their own time. The whole situation with her employer is a really long story. But, point is, I agree 100% with her decision to leave.

 

[brokrken]

Respectfully, it does sound like you're cutting it close. If a big market swing or being short $150K causes your RE to push out a year or two, it tells me that there's very little cushion for a 20-30 year retirement.

You might still be able to RE but there's a chance you could end up in front of a McDonald's fryolator in 10-15 years if things go south; not a risk I'd be willing to take.

JMHO.

Wouldn't everyone like an extra $150k in their kitty? It doesn't mean that I couldn't RE, just that I may choose not to.

 

[Teacher Terry]

With a 3 million portfolio I seriously doubt he will ever be saying do you want fries with that.

 

[joeea]

Adults should be allowed to manage their own time.

That does narrow the field of potential jobs a bit.

 

[marko]

Yes, it is a problem. A great example is the other day, she had a doctor's appointment and there was a comment that she was away from her desk for 2 hours. They are implying that she must not be working very hard if she isn't online continuously during the day, which is complete nonsense. Adults should be allowed to manage their own time.

I think your point should be that if she was working in an office, taking 2 hours for a doctor's appointment would have been better communicated, understood and acceptable.

If they're so so sophisticated to be able to monitor the time people are away from their computers, I'd assume they would also have in place mechanisms for employees to provide legitimate reasons for absence.

 

[brokrken]

That does narrow the field of potential jobs a bit.

The work from home piece does. But, not the manage your own time piece.

Once I got to a certain level in my career, my comings and goings stopped mattering to my bosses. As long as I performed, I didn't need permission to work from home, take an afternoon off, leave early for DDs soccer game, etc., etc. Most of my friends, colleagues and acquaintances also have the same flexibility.

Also, the workplace isn't what it was 20-25 years ago when I started my career. Most companies understand that flexibility is a valuable benefit.

 

[joeea]

The work from home piece does. But, not the manage your own time piece.

Well apparently your wife's company isn't fully on board the "manage your own time" piece. They may be an outlier.

But thus she should have no trouble finding a job where she can manager her own time for the next few years, if she so desires.

Hopefully having that option can help make her choice easier.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

An alternative to working more for her would be to look at optimizing expenses instead, living the same or better life only at a lower cost. A $5K reduction in expenses a year X 30 years = $150K. With not working and more free time, we were able to reduce expenses like our energy and water bills, spend less for healthier groceries, find ways to go out more often for less, get free travel and gift cards from credit card hacks, drop the landline for Ooma, get cheaper cell phone plans, lower the cable bill, etc. The combined savings really added up, especially with the annual savings multiplied by 30 or 40 years. And we don't have to pay taxes on the money we saved, unlike taxable income, so $1 saved is worth more than a $1 earned.

 

[SecretlyFI]

Two thoughts. One, besides considering the stability of your job, also consider the stability of your company's stock price, as you're relying on those stock grants being worth a certain value for the next 6 years. The other suggestion is to run FIRECalc with her income gone as of now and see if you still get an acceptable result. I assume when you said you ran it, it was using the previous situation with her still employed for 3 more years.