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Eagle Vertical Income Portfolio
04-13-2021, 04:28 PM
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#1
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Dryer sheet aficionado
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 29
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Eagle Vertical Income Portfolio
This was sent to me from Schwab. Something that they're offering. Is anyone familar with it or have any comments?
Thanks.
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04-13-2021, 04:38 PM
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#2
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posts: 1,979
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Not aware of it until your post here.
Looks like they attempt a slightly higher return with slightly lower risk.
I did not see any "expense ratio" mentioned in your attached brochure, and from the way your link describes, it seems this is a Schwab portfolio management service for certain clients? Wonder what the fees are for that service?
__________________
Dreams Worth Dreaming are Dreams Worth Planning For. I Spent a Career Planning for Early Retirement.
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Eagle Vertical Income Portfolio
04-13-2021, 04:40 PM
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#3
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 3,927
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Eagle Vertical Income Portfolio
I think it’s kind of expected these days to be transparent about fees and I didn’t see any listed, so that’s one red flag. Second, it was created in 2016 and I like ten years of performance. Third, 60 securities is not very diversified. I’d look at the respected Wellesley fund if I wanted a proven income fund, which is 40 years old, has 1,200 securities, dirt cheap expenses and much better performance than this Eagle fund.
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04-13-2021, 04:52 PM
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#4
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: City
Posts: 10,336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calnomore
... any comments?
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Well, the results are reported "before fees." That's a one-strike-and-you're-out criterion for me. Obviously, if they can report misleading composite results from multiple portfolios gross of fees they can also report honestly, net of fees on those portfolios. I'm surprised the SEC even allows this but obviously there is some kind of loophole.
Interesting too, that the amount of the fees is not stated.
You see it from time to time, but it's always seemed crazy to me that the CPI should be part of an investment target. The CPI is not correlated to the market, so long term success is a crap shoot. Short term success in the current inflationary environment is a slam dunk though, so that's maybe why they like that measurement. (Here: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=dGn Drag the slider to cover the whole period 2011 to present.)
I would suggest sticking with a blended fund or an AA that you like and that does not involve high fees. There is no magic and there are no magicians.
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Ignoramus et ignorabimus
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04-13-2021, 05:06 PM
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#5
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posts: 1,979
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Actually, the linked brochure "does" report returns both "gross" and also "net" (after fees), so there is indirect disclosure of the result of fees.
And the fine print notes at bottom of brochure do say: "Performance is shown both gross and net of the maximum Select fee
for a strategy at the typical minimum account size in effect during the
period. For purposes of showing net of fee performance in this document,
the applicable maximum Select fee amount is deducted by Morningstar in
the last month of each quarter. In an actual account, the fee calculation,
as described in the Schwab Managed Account Services Disclosure
Brochure in the section entitled “Program Fee”, will be different because
(i) the Select fee is deducted from a client’s account quarterly based on a
daily calculation of the value of the assets in the account; and (ii) amount
of the fee will vary depending on the amount of assets in the account."
So, there is that.
__________________
Dreams Worth Dreaming are Dreams Worth Planning For. I Spent a Career Planning for Early Retirement.
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04-13-2021, 05:25 PM
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#6
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: City
Posts: 10,336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RetireeRobert
Actually, the linked brochure "does" report returns both "gross" and also "net" (after fees), so there is indirect disclosure of the result of fees. ...
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I missed that one. What I saw was
"The Manager represents that its composite data is based on the following guidelines: the composite’s returns are reported before fees ..."
But I would argue that any presentation of results gross of fees is an attempt to mislead. A few years ago an investment committee that I was on heard a pitch from a salesperson who claimed that she was showing us gross of fees data because calculating net of fees was very difficult for them. We sent her packing.
__________________
Ignoramus et ignorabimus
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04-13-2021, 05:50 PM
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#7
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posts: 1,979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldShooter
A few years ago an investment committee that I was on heard a pitch from a salesperson who claimed that she was showing us gross of fees data because calculating net of fees was very difficult for them. We sent her packing.
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Good decision.
__________________
Dreams Worth Dreaming are Dreams Worth Planning For. I Spent a Career Planning for Early Retirement.
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04-13-2021, 09:12 PM
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#8
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boise
Posts: 7,865
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Nope. Nope. Nope.
First page, last sentence of paragraph: "The average total portfolio yield of the strategy over the last four years has been around 3.5% to 4%." Annoyingly vague. Being cynical, I suspect their lack of precision is attempting to hide something.
Second page, middle of paragraph: "Once issuers are approved, the team examines the capital structure of each company and generally invest in the highest yielding asset class of that issuer." Parallel construction error - "team" cannot be both singular and plural in the same sentence.
I expect this kind of imprecision and grammatical errors in blog posts. I am surprised and disappointed when I see it in print. It's a no-go when I see it in investment prospectuses which should be spell checked, grammar checked, and then checked again.
There's also the cheesy "VIP" acronym and what seem to me to be high fees.
Oh, and if I were king I would also change it to "de facto" (second page middle of paragraph), but that's the OCD nitpicker in me coming out most strongly.
__________________
"At times the world can seem an unfriendly and sinister place, but believe us when we say there is much more good in it than bad. All you have to do is look hard enough, and what might seem to be a series of unfortunate events, may in fact be the first steps of a journey." Violet Baudelaire.
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04-14-2021, 12:04 PM
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#9
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 8,309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SecondCor521
Nope. Nope. Nope.
There's also the cheesy "VIP" acronym and what seem to me to be high fees.
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yup. I couldn’t get past “Eagle Vertical Income Portfolio”. What is vertical income? Surprising to see that kind of hype from Schwab. I take it they use “Eagle” for several in-house products?
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...with no reasonable expectation for ER, I'm just here auditing the AP class.Retired 8/1/15.
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04-14-2021, 12:21 PM
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#10
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boise
Posts: 7,865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz4cash
yup. I couldn’t get past “Eagle Vertical Income Portfolio”. What is vertical income? Surprising to see that kind of hype from Schwab. I take it they use “Eagle” for several in-house products?
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Eagle actually seems to refer to the name of the investment advisory company that is actually doing the investing. See "Firm" in the top right corner of page 1.
__________________
"At times the world can seem an unfriendly and sinister place, but believe us when we say there is much more good in it than bad. All you have to do is look hard enough, and what might seem to be a series of unfortunate events, may in fact be the first steps of a journey." Violet Baudelaire.
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04-14-2021, 03:00 PM
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#11
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Western NC
Posts: 4,610
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just stick with Wellesley if you want an income fund.
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