Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Eagle Vertical Income Portfolio
Old 04-13-2021, 04:28 PM   #1
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 19
Eagle Vertical Income Portfolio

This was sent to me from Schwab. Something that they're offering. Is anyone familar with it or have any comments?
Thanks.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Eagle income port.pdf (234.6 KB, 41 views)
calnomore is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-13-2021, 04:38 PM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posts: 1,376
Not aware of it until your post here.

Looks like they attempt a slightly higher return with slightly lower risk.

I did not see any "expense ratio" mentioned in your attached brochure, and from the way your link describes, it seems this is a Schwab portfolio management service for certain clients? Wonder what the fees are for that service?
__________________
Dreams Worth Dreaming are Dreams Worth Planning For. I Spent a Career Planning for Early Retirement.
RetireeRobert is online now   Reply With Quote
Eagle Vertical Income Portfolio
Old 04-13-2021, 04:40 PM   #3
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Markola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 2,129
Eagle Vertical Income Portfolio

I think it’s kind of expected these days to be transparent about fees and I didn’t see any listed, so that’s one red flag. Second, it was created in 2016 and I like ten years of performance. Third, 60 securities is not very diversified. I’d look at the respected Wellesley fund if I wanted a proven income fund, which is 40 years old, has 1,200 securities, dirt cheap expenses and much better performance than this Eagle fund.
Markola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2021, 04:52 PM   #4
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
OldShooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: City
Posts: 6,524
Quote:
Originally Posted by calnomore View Post
... any comments?
Well, the results are reported "before fees." That's a one-strike-and-you're-out criterion for me. Obviously, if they can report misleading composite results from multiple portfolios gross of fees they can also report honestly, net of fees on those portfolios. I'm surprised the SEC even allows this but obviously there is some kind of loophole.

Interesting too, that the amount of the fees is not stated.

You see it from time to time, but it's always seemed crazy to me that the CPI should be part of an investment target. The CPI is not correlated to the market, so long term success is a crap shoot. Short term success in the current inflationary environment is a slam dunk though, so that's maybe why they like that measurement. (Here: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=dGn Drag the slider to cover the whole period 2011 to present.)

I would suggest sticking with a blended fund or an AA that you like and that does not involve high fees. There is no magic and there are no magicians.
__________________
Ignoramus et ignorabimus
OldShooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2021, 05:06 PM   #5
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posts: 1,376
Actually, the linked brochure "does" report returns both "gross" and also "net" (after fees), so there is indirect disclosure of the result of fees.

And the fine print notes at bottom of brochure do say: "Performance is shown both gross and net of the maximum Select fee
for a strategy at the typical minimum account size in effect during the
period. For purposes of showing net of fee performance in this document,
the applicable maximum Select fee amount is deducted by Morningstar in
the last month of each quarter. In an actual account, the fee calculation,
as described in the Schwab Managed Account Services Disclosure
Brochure in the section entitled “Program Fee”, will be different because
(i) the Select fee is deducted from a client’s account quarterly based on a
daily calculation of the value of the assets in the account; and (ii) amount
of the fee will vary depending on the amount of assets in the account."

So, there is that.
__________________
Dreams Worth Dreaming are Dreams Worth Planning For. I Spent a Career Planning for Early Retirement.
RetireeRobert is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2021, 05:25 PM   #6
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
OldShooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: City
Posts: 6,524
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetireeRobert View Post
Actually, the linked brochure "does" report returns both "gross" and also "net" (after fees), so there is indirect disclosure of the result of fees. ...
I missed that one. What I saw was

"The Manager represents that its composite data is based on the following guidelines: the composite’s returns are reported before fees ..."

But I would argue that any presentation of results gross of fees is an attempt to mislead. A few years ago an investment committee that I was on heard a pitch from a salesperson who claimed that she was showing us gross of fees data because calculating net of fees was very difficult for them. We sent her packing.
__________________
Ignoramus et ignorabimus
OldShooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2021, 05:50 PM   #7
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posts: 1,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldShooter View Post
A few years ago an investment committee that I was on heard a pitch from a salesperson who claimed that she was showing us gross of fees data because calculating net of fees was very difficult for them. We sent her packing.
Good decision.
__________________
Dreams Worth Dreaming are Dreams Worth Planning For. I Spent a Career Planning for Early Retirement.
RetireeRobert is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2021, 09:12 PM   #8
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
SecondCor521's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boise
Posts: 5,318
Nope. Nope. Nope.

First page, last sentence of paragraph: "The average total portfolio yield of the strategy over the last four years has been around 3.5% to 4%." Annoyingly vague. Being cynical, I suspect their lack of precision is attempting to hide something.

Second page, middle of paragraph: "Once issuers are approved, the team examines the capital structure of each company and generally invest in the highest yielding asset class of that issuer." Parallel construction error - "team" cannot be both singular and plural in the same sentence.

I expect this kind of imprecision and grammatical errors in blog posts. I am surprised and disappointed when I see it in print. It's a no-go when I see it in investment prospectuses which should be spell checked, grammar checked, and then checked again.

There's also the cheesy "VIP" acronym and what seem to me to be high fees.

Oh, and if I were king I would also change it to "de facto" (second page middle of paragraph), but that's the OCD nitpicker in me coming out most strongly.
__________________
"At times the world can seem an unfriendly and sinister place, but believe us when we say there is much more good in it than bad. All you have to do is look hard enough, and what might seem to be a series of unfortunate events, may in fact be the first steps of a journey." Violet Baudelaire.
SecondCor521 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2021, 12:04 PM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 5,821
Quote:
Originally Posted by SecondCor521 View Post
Nope. Nope. Nope.

There's also the cheesy "VIP" acronym and what seem to me to be high fees.

.

yup. I couldn’t get past “Eagle Vertical Income Portfolio”. What is vertical income? Surprising to see that kind of hype from Schwab. I take it they use “Eagle” for several in-house products?
__________________
...with no reasonable expectation for ER, I'm just here auditing the AP class.Retired 8/1/15.
jazz4cash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2021, 12:21 PM   #10
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
SecondCor521's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boise
Posts: 5,318
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz4cash View Post
yup. I couldn’t get past “Eagle Vertical Income Portfolio”. What is vertical income? Surprising to see that kind of hype from Schwab. I take it they use “Eagle” for several in-house products?
Eagle actually seems to refer to the name of the investment advisory company that is actually doing the investing. See "Firm" in the top right corner of page 1.
__________________
"At times the world can seem an unfriendly and sinister place, but believe us when we say there is much more good in it than bad. All you have to do is look hard enough, and what might seem to be a series of unfortunate events, may in fact be the first steps of a journey." Violet Baudelaire.
SecondCor521 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2021, 03:00 PM   #11
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Western NC
Posts: 2,516
just stick with Wellesley if you want an income fund.
ncbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Eagle-cam Westernskies Other topics 10 09-10-2010 06:00 PM
Pic of Eagle on Par 4......... FinanceDude Other topics 30 07-13-2009 06:55 PM
Ever seen a live eagle? Orchidflower Other topics 39 01-23-2008 04:19 PM
Eagle flying semtex FIRE and Money 3 02-14-2007 02:29 PM
LCD HDTV's - Vertical viewing angle gindie Other topics 28 11-20-2006 08:27 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:16 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.