Edward Jones vrs Vanguard

[RobbieB]

I had some stuff with EJ, my deceased wife's 401 was with them. They were local and easy.

But they made me no dough so I fired them. No, not with Vanguard, they don't have local offices

[TheWizard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobbieB I had some stuff with EJ, my deceased wife's 401 was with them. They were local and easy. But they made me no dough so I fired them. No, not with Vanguard, they don't have local offices

Local offices?
How will having hundreds of local offices reduce costs?
This isn't 1970 anymore...

[Ready]

Isn’t in funny how just mentioning the term “Edward Jones” in an OP is enough to generate five pages of comments. If you are looking for positive affirmation about them, you will need to find another forum. Good luck.

[adrift]

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Originally Posted by TheWizard Local offices? How will having hundreds of local offices reduce costs?

I live in a community with just over 60,000 residents. I just looked to see how many EJ offices there were. 14. Some of them are within blocks of each other.

I remember a satirical article about the proliferation of Starbucks years ago. It was perhaps in the Onion about a Starbucks being opened in the bathroom of a Starbucks. This was before Starbucks opened their bathrooms to junkies.

I'd trust my money with a junkie in a Starbucks bathroom more than I would with EJ.

[Graybeard]

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Originally Posted by F.I.R.E User Roth lRA?

Not exactly sure. He is self employed so it could be a SEP, taxable or Roth accounts, perhaps all 3. His returns have been good and I believe him cuz the market has been doing well for years but the costs associated with EJ reduces what could have been. He's happy so he has no intention of moving the monies so he hasn't run into the hassle and cost that would entail based upon what I have read here about EJ. It's like someone that never tasted ice cream or chocolate, they have no idea what they are missing! Ignorance is bliss.

[F.I.R.E User]

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Originally Posted by Graybeard Not exactly sure. He is self employed so it could be a SEP, taxable or Roth accounts, perhaps all 3. His returns have been good and I believe him cuz the market has been doing well for years but the costs associated with EJ reduces what could have been. He's happy so he has no intention of moving the monies so he hasn't run into the hassle and cost that would entail based upon what I have read here about EJ. It's like someone that never tasted ice cream or chocolate, they have no idea what they are missing! Ignorance is bliss.

5.75% front load plus high ER makes it not worth it. He is happy emotionally but has he ran the numbers and comparisons?

[braumeister]

Probably of no importance but the OP hasn't been back since starting the thread back in January.

[youbet]

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Originally Posted by TheWizard Local offices? How will having hundreds of local offices reduce costs? This isn't 1970 anymore...

I don't know how Schwab does it, but they have local offices and yet you can keep your costs similar to Vanguard.

We don't use the local office often, but it is handy. For example, I wanted to have POA on my son's accounts at Schwab so just called the rep and made an appointment. He had the forms all printed out and filled in, gave my son and I a thorough explanation and we signed and received copies. All done.

[RobbieB]

Same with Fidelity.

[OldShooter]

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Originally Posted by youbet I don't know how Schwab does it, but they have local offices and yet you can keep your costs similar to Vanguard.

Well, to be fair, Schwab has historically been a bit higher than VG, though historically they have had a broader product line too. FWIW, Google just told me that Schwab has 360 offices and Fast Eddie, 15,000. There's a cost driver for you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbet We don't use the local office often, but it is handy. For example, I wanted to have POA on my son's accounts at Schwab so just called the rep and made an appointment. He had the forms all printed out and filled in, gave my son and I a thorough explanation and we signed and received copies. All done.

I doubt if I see my Schwab guy once in two years, but occasionally I do need an office visit for something.

[youbet]

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Originally Posted by RobbieB Same with Fidelity.

I've been with Schwab a long time, decades. And I've worn out several reps over that period. The current guy is good and his personality fits well with mine. We get along.

Because the local Fidelity office is in the same shopping mall as the Schwab office, I have fun with the rep by looking out the window and asking "hey, isn't that a Fidelity office right over there?" He laughs. Then he gets stuff done pronto.

I think both firms are fairly equivalent. At one time, I thought about splitting things up between Schwab and Fidelity but eventually decided there wasn't enough upside to justify the extra complications.

At this stage I'm strictly DIY, so don't know if my opinion would change if I was paying for some help.

[youbet]

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Originally Posted by OldShooter Well, to be fair, Schwab has historically been a bit higher than VG, though historically they have had a broader product line too.

I guess I don't know which costs you mean. Which Schwab costs were higher? I know today, the only area I can find where Schwab is more expensive than Vanguard is that it's hard to get the best rates on cash at Schwab. I have to work hard to avoid having a significant amount of cash collecting their bank or MM rates which frequently don't match Vanguard.

Quote:

I doubt if I see my Schwab guy once in two years, but occasionally I do need an office visit for something.

In person visits are pretty rare for us too. But from time to time they are handy. I'm going to be opening a Roth for my grand daughter this summer. I'll have POA (cuz I'm the source of the funds!). Just stopping by the office with her, having the rep (mine's a VP, maybe they all are) give her a little chat and do the sigs there will be a good way to do it IMHO.


I also like the fact that my very non-financial DW has met the rep and I think could trust him to help her select some form of money management help should I pre-decease her. She'd never get that done strictly on-line and would wind up with EJ or something.........

[MRG]

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Originally Posted by OldShooter Well, to be fair, Schwab has historically been a bit higher than VG, though historically they have had a broader product line too. FWIW, Google just told me that Schwab has 360 offices and Fast Eddie, 15,000. There's a cost driver for you! I doubt if I see my Schwab guy once in two years, but occasionally I do need an office visit for something.

I don't think the local offices are owned by fast Eddie. The only costs fast Eddie cares about are toward their bottom line.

I worked with a guy, super smart, who had contracted at Jones for a couple years. He worked on some really interesting stuff there, if you're a very serious gearhead. It was all about efficiency, not because of transaction volumes, they're stuck in the 1970s technology wise. They chose to use obscure hardware rather than buying current products.

[Bruno]

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Originally Posted by OldShooter EJ is probably costing you in three ways, maybe four. 1. 12b1 fees are almost ubiquitous on load funds and they don't show up on statements. Just in the salesperson's paycheck. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/1/12b-1fees.asp 2. Load funds usually have high management fees because they are sold to people who don't know to ask and because of inclusion of the 12b1 fees. 3. High management fees are positively correlated with poor fund performance. https://www.morningstar.com/articles...r-failure.html 4. Funds may have back-end loads. A little on-line research at Morningstar or other independent analysis sites may help you find the hidden costs in each of your funds. Your worst hit is almost certainly fund underperformance. I just reviewed a portfolio that was 100% in Franklin-Templeton load funds and the unwary nonprofit was losing $30K-$60K a year on $4M.

This is NOT an advertisement to put money at EJ but i cant complain about my profits at EJ. For sure i am NO MATH scholar but i do keep the values of my account each month. I probably should be worried about every nickle or dime but I am happy if they are making me money.

My EJ account on 6/01/2020 was worth 227K. When i got my statement today my 6/01/2021 its now worth 298k. I also took a $13.500 RMD out in January for a total of $311k for this time period. Yes the load fees were paid, the management fees are higher but its hard for me to see the poor fund preformance. When my EJ account quits making me money i willl MOVE it. I would not now put money at EJ but my grandfathered account has done very good.

[SecondCor521]

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Originally Posted by Bruno This is NOT an advertisement to put money at EJ but i cant complain about my profits at EJ. For sure i am NO MATH scholar but i do keep the values of my account each month. I probably should be worried about every nickle or dime but I am happy if they are making me money. My EJ account on 6/01/2020 was worth 227K. When i got my statement today my 6/01/2021 its now worth 298k. I also took a $13.500 RMD out in January for a total of $311k for this time period. Yes the load fees were paid, the management fees are higher but its hard for me to see the poor fund preformance. When my EJ account quits making me money i willl MOVE it. I would not now put money at EJ but my grandfathered account has done very good.

Had you invested in VTSAX over that same time frame, a rough estimate is that you would have had right around $10K more money now.

I've always thought that the proper metric is not "are they making me money" - when markets are going up like they have over the time period you're talking about almost everyone made money. I've always looked at after fees, after taxes, risk adjusted rate of return compared to applicable benchmarks.

[F.I.R.E User]

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Originally Posted by MRG I don't think the local offices are owned by fast Eddie. The only costs fast Eddie cares about are toward their bottom line. I worked with a guy, super smart, who had contracted at Jones for a couple years. He worked on some really interesting stuff there, if you're a very serious gearhead. It was all about efficiency, not because of transaction volumes, they're stuck in the 1970s technology wise. They chose to use obscure hardware rather than buying current products.

Their app was out dated from a while too. They seem to like doing things the traditional way meaning less online work which I did not like.

[F.I.R.E User]

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Originally Posted by SecondCor521 Had you invested in VTSAX over that same time frame, a rough estimate is that you would have had right around $10K more money now. I've always thought that the proper metric is not "are they making me money" - when markets are going up like they have over the time period you're talking about almost everyone made money. I've always looked at after fees, after taxes, risk adjusted rate of return compared to applicable benchmarks.

I agree. It’s all about the big picture. Sure EJ will make you money but we can make even more elsewhere. That is what matters.

[jazz4cash]

Coincidentally I just reconnected with a former work colleague. He mentioned how well his guy at EJ has done for him. We don’t get into details but I believe he has an FA that puts his clients needs first so I would not put all EJ advisors in the same bucket. In his particular case, the spouse is much younger and has no interest in managing a portfolio. He told me once that if he trusted a pro and the money went to zero he could live with that. If he ran it to zero on his own he wouldn’t be able to forgive himself for putting his young wife in that position.

[F.I.R.E User]

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Originally Posted by jazz4cash Coincidentally I just reconnected with a former work colleague. He mentioned how well his guy at EJ has done for him. We don’t get into details but I believe he has an FA that puts his clients needs first so I would not put all EJ advisors in the same bucket. In his particular case, the spouse is much younger and has no interest in managing a portfolio. He told me once that if he trusted a pro and the money went to zero he could live with that. If he ran it to zero on his own he wouldn’t be able to forgive himself for putting his young wife in that position.

Nearly impossible for MF to go to zero. Looks like he got his emotions tied into his FA. Got to leave emotions out. They are just sales people.

[OldShooter]

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Originally Posted by youbet I guess I don't know which costs you mean. Which Schwab costs were higher? I know today, the only area I can find where Schwab is more expensive than Vanguard is that it's hard to get the best rates on cash at Schwab. I have to work hard to avoid having a significant amount of cash collecting their bank or MM rates which frequently don't match Vanguard. ...

Emphasis on the word "historical." Prior to the past few years, Schwab's MF expense ratios ran a bit higher than VG and their fees to manage money did (and still do). We are now experiencing chapter three of the fee wars. Ch. 1 was MF expense ratios where Fido finally took a few to zero. Ch. 2 was zero transaction fees from Schwab, designed to precipitate the industry shakeout that dropped TDAmeritrade into Schwab's lap. Ch. 3 is still developing as the brokers are trying to figure out how to make money in this new world. Schwab's near-zero interest sweep accounts are one tactic. Fido is said to be pushing managed accounts harder, so that's maybe another. VG as a mutual company obviously has to be doing something as well, but they did go into the wars with probably the lowest cost structure. Today it is hard to tell as the fee opera is not over IMO. We investors have benefited and will continue to benefit but the brokers will necessarily be nibbling at us for few more dollars before this opera is over.