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Old 02-19-2017, 10:38 PM   #21
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I would seriously reconsider moving here. Visit for sure, but I think there are better places to be your new homebase.
Such as?

Yes, the property crime rate in NM is rising, and I wouldn't consider living in ABQ, but Santa Fe punches most of the "musts" on my list: well educated retiree community with a strong interest in the arts and the outdoors, beautiful location, culturally interesting. And as cities go, it is little.

I will never live in a big city again. I couldn't wait to get out of Austin (and Texas) the moment my parents' house was sold.

Maybe I will start another thread on the appropriate sub-forum looking for suggestions.

Thanks!
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Old 02-20-2017, 07:21 AM   #22
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OP you haven't mentioned the other post suggesting Liberty HealthShare, have you looked at that program? Premiums are lower and it should have the advantage of knocking down all charges to an in "network and insurance adjusted rate..by that I mean Liberty will work with your providers to lower your final charges. I suggest you spend a few minutes reading about the program.
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Old 02-20-2017, 09:19 AM   #23
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Such as?

Yes, the property crime rate in NM is rising, and I wouldn't consider living in ABQ, but Santa Fe punches most of the "musts" on my list: well educated retiree community with a strong interest in the arts and the outdoors, beautiful location, culturally interesting. And as cities go, it is little.

I will never live in a big city again. I couldn't wait to get out of Austin (and Texas) the moment my parents' house was sold.

Maybe I will start another thread on the appropriate sub-forum looking for suggestions.

Thanks!
If ABQ has the hospital and medical facilities lacking in Santa Fe, it may work for you. They are pretty close. The issue you have presented is the desire to live in a small town environment and also have good medical facilities that are in an HMO. IMHO, that may be difficult to achieve.

If Colorado is a consideration, Boulder may work for you.
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Old 02-20-2017, 06:56 PM   #24
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Thanks for the inputs.

BTW, Liberty Shares has religious requirements which are significant and, in my mind, utterly and completely disqualifying. YMMV.
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Old 02-20-2017, 08:05 PM   #25
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Thanks for the inputs.

BTW, Liberty Shares has religious requirements which are significant and, in my mind, utterly and completely disqualifying. YMMV.
It also is not insurance, so no regulatory oversight, capital requirements, etc. Just mumbo-jumbo and hoping for the best.
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Old 02-20-2017, 08:13 PM   #26
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BTW, Liberty Shares has religious requirements which are significant and, in my mind, utterly and completely disqualifying. YMMV.
It's been awhile since I looked at healthcare ministries but Liberty seemed to be one of the more liberal ones when it came to 'religious requirements', leaving those requirements purposely vague. They don't require a pastor/church verification like a couple of the other healthcare ministries do. It seems that your current health (smoker, pre-existing conditions, etc.) is a bigger disqualifying factor than any specific religious requirement. From past discussions on this subject on TUG most were concerned with the financial viability of healthcare ministries.
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Old 02-20-2017, 08:26 PM   #27
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It also is not insurance, so no regulatory oversight, capital requirements, etc. Just mumbo-jumbo and hoping for the best.
That's true... but sometimes with "real" health insurance you are just hoping for the best..after you pay 12K in premiums and 6500 out of pocket you might get a dollar from the insurance company. That is almost mumbo jumbo itself when you see it in black and white...
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Old 02-20-2017, 08:51 PM   #28
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That's true... but sometimes with "real" health insurance you are just hoping for the best..after you pay 12K in premiums and 6500 out of pocket you might get a dollar from the insurance company. That is almost mumbo jumbo itself when you see it in black and white...
An insurance policy is a contractual agreement overseen by a regulator (who has the ability to get a stick with a nail in it going if necessary) where the other party in the agreement has publicly available financial statements and one or more credit ratings by disinterested third parties.

Healthcare ministries, OTOH, are hope and payer backed by wishful thinking with no regulatory oversight and no indication that this is anything but a Ponzi that preys on members of a specific faith.
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Old 02-20-2017, 09:16 PM   #29
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Healthcare ministries, OTOH, are hope and payer backed by wishful thinking with no regulatory oversight and no indication that this is anything but a Ponzi that preys on members of a specific faith.
Heh heh. Free market.

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An insurance policy is a contractual agreement overseen by a regulator (who has the ability to get a stick with a nail in it going if necessary)
Evil government. Takes my freedom. Runs up the cost

(Sorry. Couldn't resist)
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Old 02-20-2017, 09:19 PM   #30
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Evil government. Takes my freedom. Runs up the cost

(Sorry. Couldn't resist)
I have regulated various financial institutions and there is a hefty bushel of truth to that. One of the reasons I was eager to leave that job was that it gets harder and harder to enforce stupid, costly, pointless regulatory decrees on people who genuinely try hard to do the right thing and run their institutions in a responsible fashion.
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Old 02-20-2017, 10:08 PM   #31
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I have regulated various financial institutions and there is a hefty bushel of truth to that. One of the reasons I was eager to leave that job was that it gets harder and harder to enforce stupid, costly, pointless regulatory decrees on people who genuinely try hard to do the right thing and run their institutions in a responsible fashion.
Yes but rather than bitch about some genetic defect in even having government or regulations the thing to do its --get it right--!

I am not pro-Gov because I think they are perfect. I see it as part of that competition mechanism that is supposed to keep people straight and things above board. Because the actual marketplace isn't going to do that. ref Adam Smith. Yes, even he expressed reservations.

I grew up going to Catholic schools, my father was a big city cop, then I did 20+ in the military. Believe me, I know the difference between the rules that can set us free and rules for the sake of having rules. And I know the shortcomings and counterproductive tendencies of government. They are the same as business and every other human endeavor.
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Old 02-20-2017, 10:18 PM   #32
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Yes but rather than bitch about some genetic defect in even having government or regulations the thing to do its --get it right--!

I am not pro-Gov because I think they are perfect. I see it as part of that competition mechanism that is supposed to keep people straight and things above board. Because the actual marketplace isn't going to do that. ref Adam Smith. Yes, even he expressed reservations.

I grew up going to Catholic schools, my father was a big city cop, then I did 20+ in the military. Believe me, I know the difference between the rules that can set us free and rules for the sake of having rules. And I know the shortcomings and counterproductive tendencies of government. They are the same as business and every other human endeavor.
Understood. I would tell you that IMO regulation came pretty close to strangulation after the crash. I understand why things tended in that direction, but I am also eager to see more balance in the future.
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Old 02-20-2017, 10:35 PM   #33
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Understood. I would tell you that IMO regulation came pretty close to strangulation after the crash. I understand why things tended in that direction, but I am also eager to see more balance in the future.

Very elucidating. Not to sound like I am chastising but perhaps if there were better rules before the crash the rubber band of high handed regulations wouldn't have rebounded so furiously after the fact.

See. Right there. While the rules/enforcement were definitely sub-optimal that marketplace libertarianism, small government stuff t'wuttn't cuttin' it.
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Old 02-20-2017, 10:42 PM   #34
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Very elucidating. Not to sound like I am chastising but perhaps if there were better rules before the crash the rubber band of high handed regulations wouldn't have rebounded so furiously after the fact.

See. Right there. While the rules/enforcement were definitely sub-optimal that marketplace libertarianism, small government stuff t'wuttn't cuttin' it.
In general, I would tell you that regulation of the financial industry can range from so smothering that it significantly reduces economic growth and tends to push more activity into the shadow banking arena, to wide open free for all that is close to "running with scissors." I think these things go in cycles that resemble pendulum swings. We just ended a pendulum arc that went the farthest into "let's cut off their legs so they cannot run into traffic ever again" as has been the case in my lifetime. Where will we go from here? I imagine that things will loosen somewhat, but we are starting from a pretty extreme position and who knows how far it will go in the other direction. I am not interested in debating politics with you (which is verboten here anyway), I am just making observations based on my experience.
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Old 02-20-2017, 10:55 PM   #35
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Healthcare ministries, OTOH, are hope and payer backed by wishful thinking with no regulatory oversight and no indication that this is anything but a Ponzi that preys on members of a specific faith.
The ministries been around for +30 years. Please share the evidence that you have that they are a ponzi scheme. I've asked but have seen no evidence that any members haven't received the agreed upon benefits or that the ministries require new members to pay for the existing members benefits (a sure killer of any ponzi scheme). The ministries are required to submit to annual independent accounting audits that are publicly available.
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Old 02-20-2017, 11:04 PM   #36
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The ministries been around for +30 years. Please share the evidence that you have that they are a ponzi scheme. I've asked but have seen no evidence that any members haven't received the agreed upon benefits or that the ministries require new members to pay for the existing members benefits (a sure killer of any ponzi scheme). The ministries are required to submit to annual independent accounting audits that are publicly available.
Capital standards? Rate setting oversight for fairness and adequacy? Reserve requirements?
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Old 02-20-2017, 11:10 PM   #37
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Capital standards? Rate setting oversight for fairness and adequacy? Reserve requirements?
Those questions your ponzi scheme evidence?
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Old 02-20-2017, 11:21 PM   #38
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Those questions your ponzi scheme evidence?
When you are sending money into a black hole for promises of future support, one should assume that you are being hoodwinked unless there is some way to verify that those promises will have some backing. Without a regulatory and rating structure, how exactly do you suppose these promises can be verified? If one of these mumbo-jumbo deals were running into trouble, how would you know until the problems became front page news? I and most knowledgeable observers can tell when an actual insurer is headed for trouble years ahead of time (plenty of time to get out of the path of the trainwreck). With no data, how could you possibly figure out the condition and trend of one of these schemes?
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Old 02-20-2017, 11:33 PM   #39
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With no data, how could you possibly figure out the condition and trend of one of these schemes?
I guess I could look at the last 30 years of performance, payouts, and accountant audits.
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Old 02-21-2017, 09:15 AM   #40
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When you are sending money into a black hole for promises of future support, one should assume that you are being hoodwinked unless there is some way to verify that those promises will have some backing. Without a regulatory and rating structure, how exactly do you suppose these promises can be verified? If one of these mumbo-jumbo deals were running into trouble, how would you know until the problems became front page news? I and most knowledgeable observers can tell when an actual insurer is headed for trouble years ahead of time (plenty of time to get out of the path of the trainwreck). With no data, how could you possibly figure out the condition and trend of one of these schemes?
Black hole, come on now.10's of thousands of faithful BCBS customers in MN paid for years sometimes decades into individual policys..some such as myself had virtually no claims for a decade or 2. With less then 6 months notice BC said you are done these policies are all cancelled, go some other place if you can. Maybe I think BC took my money into a blackhole to pay other peoples bills and then told me to go pound sand.Where were the regulators then to stick for all the faithful customers..nowhere, that's where

Your faith in the regulatory and ratings is some what misplaced in IMO. And your use of the term "mumbo jumbo" is a scare tactic.
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