Experienced home owners. should I spend the money?

[saluki9]

Ok, I have another questions for our forum members with a little more life experience than I.

Last year my wife and I purchased a nice 4 bedroom 2.5 bedroom colonial in a great area, all should be perfect right? Well, it turned out that in the 39 years since this house was completed a lot of maintenance was uh, deferred.

I thought about creating a poll to decide if I should shoot my home inspector, I decided this was more constructive.

Anyway, after a $4,000 plumbing bill in our first two weeks and the furnace dying on the second night in the house we're now a full year into our "stay" and the wife and I wondering what to do from here on out. The house needs some improvements, some more urgent than others. We can't decide whether to just bite the bullet and do them all in one orgy of home improvement, or do the most urgent and do the rest as they become more urgent.

Here is what we need to do

New HVAC everything from furnace to coil to AC ($8,000)

New front door and sidelights. (original was designed I suppose when it was a good idea to put flimsy glass right next to the door knob, ahh the safe good old days ($1K - $2K)

Regrade and re-sod of back yard which was totally destroyed by previously mentioned plumbing problems. ($1500)

Disgusting old kitchen cabinets which for some reason the previous owners decided to install $4K of granite on top of. ($6,000?)

Roof ( $10,000)

I hate the process of going through all of this, getting bids, setting appts, etc. Do I just do it all at once or wait? I guess I should add that this is THE house. We aren't moving unless we win the Powerball.

 

[73ss454]

Don't be affraid to put money into your home, after all you do live there. You'll always have something in need of repair so this is normal in a house that's almost 40 years old.

If it fit's into your budget I say just get it done. When your done with this stuff you'll find other things that have to or that you want to change.

 

[Meadbh]

Ah yes, the money pit! Been there, done that. You plan to live there long term, right? No flipping? Then pace yourselves and your finances. IMHO, start with the structural stuff and finish with the cosmetic. The front door is small potatoes and is a security measure, so I would put that high on the list. If you do decide to sell, the kitchen will add value, so if you get to that in X years and sell in X+1, it will still be relatively new.

Here's how I would prioritize:
1. Roof (if leaking)
2. Front door
3. HVAC (could be #1 if roof is OK for another few years; will save money)
4. Kitchen
5. Sod

The poll needs another option: schedule jobs over next 2-3 years.

 

[saluki9]

I guess I should add that my Golden really likes the broken pipe coming out of the sump pump.

 

[twaddle]

So you're looking at spending $30K or so. How much did you pay for the house? If it was, say, $600K, then just go for the repairs and consider it part of the purchase price.

If you paid, say, $100K for the house, then sue your inspector.

Also, consider refacing your kitchen cabinets instead of replacing them.

 

[REWahoo]

[-]I'd prioritize the list in order of 'need to do' (roof, HVAC) down to 'nice to do' (sod, cabinets) in whatever time frame I was comfortable with. My preference would be sooner rather than later if I wanted my marriage to survive.
[/-]
What Meadbh said...

 

[W2R]

Why not budget a specific amount per year for improvements and repair. Each year, determine roughly how much is left over after subtracting the repairs. That will give you some idea of about how much you can plan to use on improvements that year.

 

[saluki9]

So you're looking at spending $30K or so. How much did you pay for the house? If it was, say, $600K, then just go for the repairs and consider it part of the purchase price.

If you paid, say, $100K for the house, then sue your inspector.

Also, consider refacing your kitchen cabinets instead of replacing them.

We paid $510 when comparable houses were going for $600K, I guess now we know why

 

[twaddle]

Yeah, you bought a fixer. The seller might have liability if they failed to disclose something they knew about. The inspector might have liability as well.

I'd be pissed at both of them, but in my experience, there's not much recourse other than just making the fixes on your own dime. If you feel that there were misrepresentations, it's fairly cheap to have a lawyer write a letter....

 

[barbarus]

If you can wait, labor will be getting cheaper as the economy "adjusts". As far as materials...well that depends of if you're a deflationista or inflationista. Don't know myself, but I'd guess overall the repairs will be less expensive going forward.

Heck, in three or four years you might be able to hire a yardfull of engineers & architects (maybe even from this blog) for pennies on the dollar.

Go for a massive redesign!

The roof might not hold on though.

 

[travelover]

There may be lower cost alternatives. For instance, put in laminated security glass in sidelight. Reface cabinets. Plant grass seed instead of resodding. Roof may just need flashing repairs if shingles are not shot.

You never know what life will throw at you - if you dump all that money into it at once, you will not likely get it back if you need to resell quickly.

 

[jazz4cash]

Not sure how much blame to put on the home inspector....probably none. I agree with the posters suggesting to create a budget/spending plan, prioritize the work and pace yourself. As a new homeowner you will gain valuable experience in selecting and dealing with contractors. It may violate your priority scheme, but consider selecting a contractor to do a small job to see how they perform before authorizing them to do a major project. Doing everything at once is asking for problems.

Many major home expenses like the roof and heating generally run in 20 yr cycles give or take, esp if they are builder grade materials. While its entirely possible you have a 39 yr old hvac system, its likely on borrowed time. In any event 8K and some of your other estimates look pretty high. How many layers of shingles are on the roof?

 

[omni550]

New HVAC everything from furnace to coil to AC ($8,000)

While I was driving around earlier today, someone on the radio was talking about income taxes. They said something about being able to deduct the costs of new HVAC, along with many other energy-conserving devices like photovoltaic arrays. (Nords, do you still need to add to your collection?).

It just might be worth checking into this. If it's still 'claimable' in 2008 or 2009, that might help establish an installation deadline for the HVAC system.

omni

 

[Alan]

We were in a similar position with the house we bought in '92 although we did know it was a fixer-upper and bought it under auction as it had been a forclosure.

We prioritized but still did it as quickly as we could. First year we did HVAC, roof and exterior repairs and painting. Next year was kitchen etc.

Since we were living there and planned to be there for many years we wanted to get it repaired and done up asap. (ended up living there for 11 years).

 

[brewer12345]

If you can afford to, just do it. We are heading into year 6 at our place and finally getting everything done. Insulation, water heater, sump pump plumbing, kitchen, bathroom... Now doing the landscaping and that should be it for a while, I hope.

 

[saluki9]

While I was driving around earlier today, someone on the radio was talking about income taxes. They said something about being able to deduct the costs of new HVAC, along with many other energy-conserving devices like photovoltaic arrays. (Nords, do you still need to add to your collection?).

It just might be worth checking into this. If it's still 'claimable' in 2008 or 2009, that might help establish an installation deadline for the HVAC system.

omni

Thanks, but the credit isn't huge. I think it's $400 or so this year max. It's better than nothing!

 

[saluki9]

Many major home expenses like the roof and heating generally run in 20 yr cycles give or take, esp if they are builder grade materials. While its entirely possible you have a 39 yr old hvac system, its likely on borrowed time. In any event 8K and some of your other estimates look pretty high. How many layers of shingles are on the roof?

Two layers on right now, and no leaks yet. I was told they can't add another layer and would have to strip them all off.

I was being conservative on the expense side, it will probably be less.

 

[jazz4cash]

Two layers on right now, and no leaks yet. I was told they can't add another layer and would have to strip them all off.

I was being conservative on the expense side, it will probably be less.

Both of those sound about right. Two layers is max assuming asphalt shingles. The new ones will probably be 'guaranteed' for anywhere between 20 and 50 yrs, and I think 25 is probably average. I would think you'll learn to get pretty handy on items like re-seeding vs. sodding.

 

[saluki9]

Both of those sound about right. Two layers is max assuming asphalt shingles. The new ones will probably be 'guaranteed' for anywhere between 20 and 50 yrs, and I think 25 is probably average. I would think you'll learn to get pretty handy on items like re-seeding vs. sodding.

Oh, I'm already handy with the sodding. Too bad it doesn't help me at my place, please see picture of Golden Retriever above, no grass seed will be left alone on her watch.

 

[Poundkey]

I personally like to have one project complete before starting another. One reason is that several contractors working at the same time can get in each others way......another is that I like to keep an eye on how well a job is being done and watching the progress of one job instead of several is easier.
I'd start with whatever you think is most urgent and work down the list.
Getting the house secure (front door) would be the first on my list. You could install a double key deadbolt until you choose a new door. Even if the glass is broken it still takes a key to open it.
Next would be the HVAC or roof....roof is first if it's actually leaking.
The sodding and cabinets would come last. Just my opinion..

Cool looking dog.....

 

[samclem]

Some thoughts:
Roof: This is (obviously) very important. You've got time since it's not leaking yet, but don't wait until it starts leaking (lots more damage after it starts leaking. What type of attic insulation? Cellulose is great stuff, but will absorb a lot of water before it shows through on the ceiling--yech). Since you are going to be in the house for a long time and the shingles are guaranteed for up to 50 years, you know you'll be paying for a roof sometime, might as well get it done before it leaks. But--get a good contractor to do the job, and get (in writing) that their installation procedures are in accordance with the mfgrs instructions and will maintain the shingle warranty.

Front door: Will any of the other work necessitate taking bulky stuff through it (and possibly gouging it?) If so, wait until that other work is done before putting on a new door/sidelights. A double-cylinder deadbolt can be a good stopgap if it will help you sleep at night.

HVAC: Obviously, have the AC and furnace done at the same time, and during moderate weather. Read up on duct cleaning--maay folks choose to do it when the equipment is out. Other people think most duct-cleaning jobs are unnecessary.

Landscaping: Wait if there's any potential that you'll need to have heavy trucks/equipment in the yard. For example, are you planning to pour a patio in the back, etc. You might find out that you need to dig up another sewer pipe, that a French drain would stop the basement flooding, etc

 

[dumpster56]

I guess I should add that my Golden really likes the broken pipe coming out of the sump pump.

Oh man what a great dog!O0

 

[Nords]

Saluki, are you sure that your house is in such terrible shape? Most homeowners can't even accomplish your first step of identifying what needs to be done, let alone what's broke or how to execute the punch list. Yours sounds like a pretty typical group of projects for that age of home.

Here's some thoughts that don't have as much to do with what needs to be done as they do with what's available.

We triage our contractor projects by who answers our phone calls. The first contractor to show up helps us decide whether we're working on the floors or the yard.

Another option is the time of the year. Most contractors have slow times when they'll flex on price or options. Others have seasonal clearances where they're getting rid of "last year's" materials.

A third option is to tell your list to all your friends & neighbors to see who comes back with recommended names. A really good roof contractor who's available now might be worth spending the money instead of waiting.

You could also think about what you want to do as long as you're tackling the project. HVAC is a great opportunity to make major upgrades in energy efficiency and to suck up a few credits (if they're not already expired). Does the contractor also offer new high-velocity insulated ductwork or the latest-tech furnace/fan? Remote-control personal thermostats? Window tinting or extra wall/attic insulation? Humidifier/air cleaner? Or do you want to stick with just the basics?

Replace the roof, sure. Do you want to add major improvements like heat/cold insulation or exotic materials like standing-seam metal or slate? Or just traditional composition shingles? Add a photovoltaic system of your dreams? Hurricane upgrades? Put in a new attic-storage system while the sheathing's off? If there's no sign of trouble yet then you could put it on your list for a couple years down the road and plan it to death.

How bad are the cabinets? If the boxes are crumpling under the weight of the granite then you have a more urgent problem than if the doors are yucky. Refacing doors & cabinets might cost a lot less than replacing the boxes. Rigid thermofoil replacement doors are available in just about any design that are made in the factory, only need a day to install, and last practically forever.

The door-- when the weather is in your favor. You'll want to spend top dollar on the world's most reliable contractor who will show up and get the job done right the first time. This might actually be the most painful project because of the security issues and the "small" job size. In the meantime, what about a two-cylinder keyed deadbolt?

I don't know how much of a home-improvement junkie you are, but it's also worth watching HGTV and attending home shows. They can give you a bad case of the great green galloping gimmes, but they also help you decide what's important to you and what's not. That's crucial for your discussions with a contractor and can really cut down on the number of visits/estimates. When you know what can be done and what you want to do, you can work through the sales guys a lot faster...

... along with many other energy-conserving devices like photovoltaic arrays. (Nords, do you still need to add to your collection?).

Well, "need" is such a touchy word. As an engineer I always need more power, but I seem to have run out of roof. I've been seriously considering putting PV panels on top of our water panels (plenty of sunshine for both) but electrical equipment on a water system... bad practice. A city sewage pumping station next door has several thousand square feet of prime rooftop going to waste but they'd probably object to me "borrowing" their airspace. As a taxpayer we just used the last of our credits ($3300) and I "need" more of them, but that's just spending money to use a coupon.

Between our use reduction, EnergyStar improvements, and last November's 300-watt upgrade I'm probably done. Despite it being one of the worst times of the year, last month's electric bill was $21. Summer's bills should be HECO's minimum $13 "connected to the grid" fee.

Our next "use reduction" will be launching our teen in just 870 days. But I guess if we convert a Prius to a plug-in then we're going back to the PV drawing board with a new plan.

 

[Orchidflower]

OK, this does come from experience: I lived in my house in Houston for 22 years, put off making alot of cosmetic repairs using all sorts of excuses as didn't want to bother with construction guys in the house, didn't want to cut into work time getting bids and the usual b.s. excuses.
Well, 2001 the house flooded in one room, so had to repair that room totally (new sheetrock, new tile, new countertops, new doors, totally new landscaping, trimmed trees, new carpeting in the parts not hardwood, the whole shebang); so, while the construction guy was there, I had him put in new louvered doors, fix windows, put in new ceiling fans, new lights, etc. etc. etc. $7,000 plus the cost of matrials worth of repairs, which, surely made the figure up to $12,000 or so. I never kept track, so it could be much, much more?
Then I decided to sell in 2003. "I" could have ENJOYED those repairs for the time I was there if I hadn't been so stupid and (dare I say) lazy about it--instead of the brief 2 years I did enjoy it all.
I really regret my decision not to make all the cosmetic repairs I had always wanted earlier.
If I had to do it all over again, I would have done the repairs after settling in, making some more money, and redone it all around the 11th year or so at latest I was there. There was no excuse for not doing it then, and I really, really regret it now.
You live and you learn the hard way at times....sigh. I vote do it now unhesitatingly.

 

[Bestwifeever]

It sounds like you bought a great house in a great area from the OP--it sounds lovely and you seem to have gotten a good price even factoring in the work that you want to get done.

If you have the money now I would say just get it all done at once--Orchidflower is right about having things fixed so you can enjoy them. And it will doubtless not be cheaper to do them later.

Otherwise, if you do the work in stages, I agree with the HVAC first and right away--it will save you money in energy costs and be a big worry off your mind.

Are you sure you need a new roof right now? We had a minor chimney area problem and the roofer who repaired it said the 20 year old roof was good for another 5 to 10 (and he was right). It was our second reroofing--the first was a tearoff and then this was a reshingle. Both were done quickly and neither one disrupted the rest of the house.

The other things are more or less cosmetic so you could do the ones that drive you craziest first--replacing the kitchen cabinets could lead to a whole kitchen remodel (existing floor might not continue under the existing cabinets, for example) but the tv remodeling shows all say you get back 100 percent of a kitchen remodel. You can always just paint those yucky cabinets....

Anyway, it sounds like a lovely house!