Experiences with financially struggling government?

[haha]

You don't hear people talk about murders in St. Louis, Baltimore, Kansas City, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Memphis, Buffalo, D.C, Stockton, Miami, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, do you? And they all have higher murder rates than Chicago (data from years 2010-2015)! And Indianapolis (yes, Indianapolis!) is right behind Chicago.

Since much of that is concentrated in those specific neighborhoods, it stands to reason that Chicago must be much safer than those other cities if you stay in the better places (assuming those other cities aren't as concentrated as Chicago, not sure about that).

I sure wish they could clean up the violence in those places, it must be terrible to live there.

-ERD50

You don't understand. People do talk about murder, assault, rape in those other cities you mentioned. And of course violent crime is concentrated in certain areas in all these cities. Crime tends to be more common where the criminals are-Duh! You can get shot anywhere, but some places are way more likely than others.

If some guy gets shot in River Oaks, cherchez la femme.

Ha

 

[W2R]

I sure wish they could clean up the violence in those places, it must be terrible to live there.

Crime is the only thing that could eventually drive us from the New Orleans area. It's indeed terrible in the city. Very few murderers are ever identified or caught.

 

[ERD50]

You don't understand. People do talk about murder, assault, rape in those other cities you mentioned. And of course violent crime is concentrated in certain areas in all these cities. Crime tends to be more common where the criminals are-Duh! You can get shot anywhere, but some places are way more likely than others.

If some guy gets shot in River Oaks, cherchez la femme.

Ha

I understand. Many people are bad with numbers and statistics. Large numbers, regardless of rates and context, get many people excited.

Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I sure wish they could clean up the violence in those places, it must be terrible to live there.

Crime is the only thing that could eventually drive us from the New Orleans area. It's indeed terrible in the city. Very few murderers are ever identified or caught.

My wording was vague, sorry. By "those places", I really meant the bad areas of Chicago (or any other place with concentrated violence like that). The per capita rates of those areas of Chicago must be extremely high, and it must be a scary place to live. For places like New Orleans, with higher crime rates than Chicago, I don't know if there is more crime in general in the "safe" neighborhoods, or if it is more or less concentrated than Chicago. I don't feel "un-safe" when I'm in Chicago, as I know my way around. I'm "on guard" and at a little higher "aware of my surroundings" than I would be in most suburban settings, but that's partially due to the fact you know there might be pick-pockets preying on tourists. And some of the street people may have mental issues, but it's rare for any of them to approach you, other than to hold out the change cup.

I live in a sleepy area, actually one of the lowest crime rates in the State. Though we never let down our guard, anything can happen, but it is a nice feeling.

-ERD50

 

[pj.mask]

I'm not saying Houston is the best - I will say it is one of the better options for an engineer in oil. I lived in NOLA for 3 years and as an adult in Houston for 5.5 years. A post earlier discussed COL doesn't always match to quality and between these two cities it depends what you value.

Without getting into the retirement location section - Houston has new/newer construction (Good efficient housing) loads of restaurants, lots of shopping options (3rd best China town in US, Vietnamese area, Indian area). NOLA has more outdoor events (around drinking, food, and music) and is a smaller city where everything is close if you live in the city.

With Houston, traffic can be bad if you don't have flexibility. My 16 mile commute is 30 min (each way) but I have to leave before 6:30 am and 4:10 pm.

If you want choices and newer housing it will cost more in NOLA. If you want to go to outdoor festivals on a regular basis - Houston will have more drive time and less options.

 

[1-31-18]

If I lived in IL I would be moving out pronto.... Naturally, YMMV.

That's pretty hostile. But you're right that YMMV. Mileage varies according to a a great number of socioeconomic factors not politic to mention publicly.

For example, I used to live in the most affluent neighborhood in all of NC -- and I moved out as fast as I could. Chicago in contrast suits me just fine. To cite just one reason why, there are more world-class museums that are biking distance from my home in Chicago than there are in the entirety of the Tar Heel State. And I can work and socialize with business leaders here without being asked constantly about religion (keep it to yourself, please), about which college basketball team I follow (honest answer: if you really care about that, you are telling me more about yourself than you realize) and about whether I prefer my BBQ eastern versus western (honest answer: I've tried them both and prefer heart-healthy food).

YMMV.

 

[Mulligan]

Not all of them. I retired from a county job and the pension is well over 90% funded. Someone else here posted that their state government pension was fully funded. But that makes for a boring news story so you never hear about those.

Put me in the camp with you Walt. My pension system actually had the foresight to put our contributions and the equally matched ones in a trust monthly with real cash, not promises to pay later, and then forget to do so. And it just posted it has returned 11% last year so the funding status will go up. Nice to know they also fudge the numbers with an assumed 26% contribution rate when its actually been 29% for over a decade now.

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

That's not true. The violence is much more prevalent in certain neighborhoods, some of those are west of downtown (and people who want to stay safe know that and don't go there). Garfield Park, Englewood, Austin, Lawndale... The Loop, South Loop, Near North, and North & NW areas are far safer areas.

You don't hear people talk about murders in St. Louis, Baltimore, Kansas City, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Memphis, Buffalo, D.C, Stockton, Miami, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, do you? And they all have higher murder rates than Chicago (data from years 2010-2015)! And Indianapolis (yes, Indianapolis!) is right behind Chicago.

Since much of that is concentrated in those specific neighborhoods, it stands to reason that Chicago must be much safer than those other cities if you stay in the better places (assuming those other cities aren't as concentrated as Chicago, not sure about that).

I sure wish they could clean up the violence in those places, it must be terrible to live there.

-ERD50

Thanks , ill add this to my do not visit list.

 

[socca]

Comparing Chicago to "a Chicago burb" is like comparing Chicago to Houston, as another poster did. In each case they have little in common.

Agree. During my 11 years in suburban Chicago, I went downtown about half-a-dozen times, feeling like a tourist each time (which I was).

 

[JoeWras]

That's pretty hostile. But you're right that YMMV. Mileage varies according to a a great number of socioeconomic factors not politic to mention publicly.

For example, I used to live in the most affluent neighborhood in all of NC -- and I moved out as fast as I could. Chicago in contrast suits me just fine. To cite just one reason why, there are more world-class museums that are biking distance from my home in Chicago than there are in the entirety of the Tar Heel State. And I can work and socialize with business leaders here without being asked constantly about religion (keep it to yourself, please), about which college basketball team I follow (honest answer: if you really care about that, you are telling me more about yourself than you realize) and about whether I prefer my BBQ eastern versus western (honest answer: I've tried them both and prefer heart-healthy food).

YMMV.

I had to laugh at your post, as someone who grew up in Chicago and now lives in NC.

Just wait. You'll have equivalent "queries" to deal with in Chicago, like what ingredients make a TRUE Chicago hot dog. Surprise! There isn't complete agreement!

 

[samclem]

As with other high-priced locations, those who can't afford it on an after-tax basis, or who simply don't value the amenities of a global alpha city, are wise to live elsewhere.

How are the public schools in this "alpha city"? Pretty close to "omega." Is public order pretty good, or are things on a low simmer poised to explode with the next video bombshell from the streets? Oak Park is about 3 miles from West Garfield Park, I do not know how the residents of Oak Park and other relatively safe areas can believe they will remain safe long-term from the turmoil spawned in the disfunctional parts of town.
Anyway, if a citizenry wants pricey public amenities, and they want to pay for them, that is great. Clearly a lot of stuff has been bought but the payment has been deferred intergenerationally. I know Chicagoans will understand if the hoi polloi of pay-as-you-go locales are reluctant to fund a bailout. Not that Rahm and his successors would ever ask.

 

[imoldernu]

Illinois Bills that are current and unpaid, now total nearly 15 Billion dollars. That represents monies that are owed and due today. NOT State debt that is due in the future, for pensions, bonds, infrastructure etc. It's like the electric bill that you and I have that is due today... not like the money owed for a mortgage, due over a contractual time period.

That represents roughly $1,000 for every man woman and child in the state (13 million persons). The state debt will now officially rated as junk bond status as of July 1st., and the interest on the current overdue junk rated bonds is being paid through the issuance of new junk bonds.

There is great uncertainty as to how the debt may be serviced. Pointing to the law requiring payment of contracted services seems to satisfy many who expect payment. Facing the reality, is a different matter.

It's hard to find any positive outlook for the state finances... long or short term.

http://www.businessinsider.com/illinois-bankruptcy-crisis-2017-6

As of last week, little had changed. The state was responsible for a record backlog of unpaid bills totaling $14.7 billion, causing fear among programs and local agencies dependent on state aid. State legislators also failed to approve a stand-alone kindergarten through 12th-grade education budget that was vital to the operations of the financially struggling Chicago school system, Reuters reported.

 

[Bamaman]

I'm not saying Houston is the best - I will say it is one of the better options for an engineer in oil. I lived in NOLA for 3 years and as an adult in Houston for 5.5 years. A post earlier discussed COL doesn't always match to quality and between these two cities it depends what you value.

Without getting into the retirement location section - Houston has new/newer construction (Good efficient housing) loads of restaurants, lots of shopping options (3rd best China town in US, Vietnamese area, Indian area). NOLA has more outdoor events (around drinking, food, and music) and is a smaller city where everything is close if you live in the city.


If you want choices and newer housing it will cost more in NOLA. If you want to go to outdoor festivals on a regular basis - Houston will have more drive time and less options.

PJ: You're right about many things you've said about Houston. It's just a wonder the city's been so livable with such a lack of planning. But it's worked well. My cousin lives in Sugarland, and the public schools there are beyond fantastic. And the cost of housing and lack of state income taxes are just a little offset by the incredibly high Texas property taxes.

The only other really big city area in the U.S. that's as affordable and has a very high standard of living is the northern 'burbs of Atlanta. We left there 14 years ago because of the traffic--and I worked out of town.

As far as New Orleans goes, the place is a cesspool of humanity. Only good thing that came out of the last hurricane is so many drug addicts left for other cities--Houston, Memphis, Birmingham, Atlanta.

 

[karen1972]

I moved from NW Burbs, still Cook County 2 years ago. I saw no way out of their debt. I was in Telecom which got decimated as went the 6 figure jobs. Not much else to take over unless you were willing to commute to the city, no thanks, 4 hours stuck on a train that can't move because the tracks are frozen.

So I was sitting with 11.5% sales tax, 2.6% property tax, and 5% state tax (which had that automatic rollback which I think kicked in now). Sorry but already taxed to death and they still can't make good on their debt.. its called corruption, like crazy crazy crazy corruption at all levels for decades... not sure how you fix that.

Everything from the parking meter situation to the toll roads. Too many people getting govt pensions for barely having worked and too many that have weird "loopholes" that allow people to jack up their incomes the last few years of service and then get paid pensions like that was their salary the whole time. you name it, someones got a scam running on it... no thanks.

 

[socca]

I moved from NW Burbs, still Cook County 2 years ago.

I lived in the Palatine/Inverness/Barrington area. Those were good years. Too bad things have gone to hell.

 

[samclem]

its called corruption, like crazy crazy crazy corruption at all levels for decades... not sure how you fix that.

Internationally recognized (http://www.economist.com/node/21548264) as the capital of corruption. Per the article, 1/3rd of Chicago aldermen had been convicted of corruption. It's not the money they pocket that kills the city, it's the bad agreements they make in exchange for the payoffs and the overall breakdown in trust that is ruinous. Things would be much better off they just stole from the city govt directly.

 

[pj.mask]

PJ: You're right about many things you've said about Houston. It's just a wonder the city's been so livable with such a lack of planning. But it's worked well. My cousin lives in Sugarland, and the public schools there are beyond fantastic. And the cost of housing and lack of state income taxes are just a little offset by the incredibly high Texas property taxes.

The only other really big city area in the U.S. that's as affordable and has a very high standard of living is the northern 'burbs of Atlanta. We left there 14 years ago because of the traffic--and I worked out of town.

As far as New Orleans goes, the place is a cesspool of humanity. Only good thing that came out of the last hurricane is so many drug addicts left for other cities--Houston, Memphis, Birmingham, Atlanta.

I didn't want to get too personal but I knew several people in NOLA working for the only major oil company still there - all of them into drugs and a big part of the reason I left.

Houston isn't very exciting as a single person, but for those who can't wait to come home to spend time with their kids, I find it offers plenty of livability. Sure if I were single I would prefer the Austin rivers, trails, and back country.

People talk about property tax in Texas but compared to Nola with car/house/flood insurance - it evens out. We pay $650/1.7% and ,$0

 

[meierlde]

Of course there is a worse area of Illinois, East St. Louis.

 

[Red Badger]

That's pretty hostile. But you're right that YMMV. Mileage varies according to a a great number of socioeconomic factors not politic to mention publicly.

For example, I used to live in the most affluent neighborhood in all of NC -- and I moved out as fast as I could. Chicago in contrast suits me just fine. To cite just one reason why, there are more world-class museums that are biking distance from my home in Chicago than there are in the entirety of the Tar Heel State. And I can work and socialize with business leaders here without being asked constantly about religion (keep it to yourself, please), about which college basketball team I follow (honest answer: if you really care about that, you are telling me more about yourself than you realize) and about whether I prefer my BBQ eastern versus western (honest answer: I've tried them both and prefer heart-healthy food).

YMMV.

And we're really, really glad you are happier in IL. We're all happier with you there as well.

 

[karen1972]

I lived in the Palatine/Inverness/Barrington area. Those were good years. Too bad things have gone to hell.

Palatine/Schaumburg/Wheeling .. the sad thing is according to zillow, my home is worth less today than when I sold it 2 years ago. Bought a much smaller house here in NC a year ago after renting and its already gone up 15%. They also need to rethink that Cook county tax exemption, senior property tax freeze. Most places I know defer the property tax until the home is sold vs. Chicago's freeze which is just a huge windfall and leads to all kinds of cheating (ie mom lives in Florida, kids live in house in Chicago, but mom still claims exemption). Plus their convoluted how much time you live in the house factors in your exemption. Hard to get people to move in when they are footing 2/3s of the bill.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Internationally recognized (The Chicago way | The Economist) as the capital of corruption. Per the article, 1/3rd of Chicago aldermen had been convicted of corruption. It's not the money they pocket that kills the city, it's the bad agreements they make in exchange for the payoffs and the overall breakdown in trust that is ruinous. Things would be much better off they just stole from the city govt directly.

Chicago with its politics and payoffs as discussed in this link is a whole separate fascinating thing and was in place long before the state bankruptcy risk developed. Chicago isn't comparable to Detroit. Imo the state of Illinois issues are on the state politicians and the people who keep voting for them.

 

[1-31-18]

I had to laugh at your post, as someone who grew up in Chicago and now lives in NC.



Just wait. You'll have equivalent "queries" to deal with in Chicago, like what ingredients make a TRUE Chicago hot dog. Surprise! There isn't complete agreement!

I'm reading this after listening to the Grant Park Symphony and Chorus perform under the stars last night. For free -- like every summer Friday and Saturday night -- thanks to a multi-billionaire philanthropist who (like me) calls Chicago home. Where in NC could I have that experience? Answer: Nowhere. An occasional opera in Charlotte (with English text on a screen) doesn't begin to measure up to the cultural amenities in Chicago that are free, or virtually free, to the public every day.

Re: hot dogs, No one in my group or within earshot last night mentioned hot dogs. No one in the business leadership here talks about hot dogs. Haven't heard it discussed by those folks in 14 years. The conversation about dining last night was mostly about the '00 and '05 Bordeaux we were drinking and the grilled steak sandwiches that one of the ladies prepared.

There are about three million people here (not counting the suburbs), which exceeds the sum of the population of North Carolina's three or four largest "cities" by a healthy margin. So we do have all kinds of people in this city, but thankfully not in the downtown business leadership class.

I suppose I could say who among our three million does talk about the proper hot dog -- yes, they do -- but they are NMCD and are easily avoided.

In contrast, a very large segment of the NC business leadership thinks it is quite all right, if not a moral duty, to talk about religion in the workplace. I would hear it weekly, at least, in the biggest banks and corporate offices. Business luncheons would begin with prayers to a very low-church Protestant god. And it continues today. Some of the zealots even manage to gain political office and embarrass the state nationally.

So you don't have museums, opera or fine dining that anyone would travel to experience, but you do have unavoidable religious proselytizing. "Good on you."

I will gladly pay "extra" to get extras and avoid negatives. And none of this would need to be said except that a few posters feel the need to point out that Illinois has high taxes and that life is cheaper elsewhere. Cheaper doesn't mean better.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I had to laugh at your post, as someone who grew up in Chicago and now lives in NC.

Just wait. You'll have equivalent "queries" to deal with in Chicago, like what ingredients make a TRUE Chicago hot dog. Surprise! There isn't complete agreement!

Don't be exposing people to derision when they believe this and ask for ketchup . I'll bring the celery salt....

 

[ERD50]

I had to laugh at your post, as someone who grew up in Chicago and now lives in NC.

Just wait. You'll have equivalent "queries" to deal with in Chicago, like what ingredients make a TRUE Chicago hot dog. Surprise! There isn't complete agreement!

I've never had a discussion of what a TRUE Chicago hot dog is. It has always been, as far as I recall, just as wiki describes:

A Chicago-style hot dog, Chicago Dog, or Chicago Red Hot is an all-beef frankfurter[1][3] on a poppy seed bun,[4] originating from the city of Chicago, Illinois.[5][6] The hot dog is topped with yellow mustard, chopped white onions, bright green sweet pickle relish, a dill pickle spear, tomato slices or wedges, pickled sport peppers and a dash of celery salt.[1][7][8][9][10]

Just remember, seven toppings, no ketchup for a Chicago-Style Dog. The celery salt is essential to the flavor. If the place you go to does not include it, find another place.

-ERD50

 

[socca]

Palatine/Schaumburg/Wheeling .. the sad thing is according to zillow, my home is worth less today than when I sold it 2 years ago.

I looked up my old house just for fun. Zillow estimates $290k; realtor.com estimates $240k. The value is mostly in the land (nice big lot); most buyers would be looking to tear down & build a mini-mansion. Too bad - those old Sears homes are charming. Property taxes have gone up enormously since I left; property values - not so much.

 

[Calico]

I'm reading this after listening to the Grant Park Symphony and Chorus perform under the stars last night. For free -- like every summer Friday and Saturday night -- thanks to a multi-billionaire philanthropist who (like me) calls Chicago home. Where in NC could I have that experience? Answer: Nowhere. An occasional opera in Charlotte (with English text on a screen) doesn't begin to measure up to the cultural amenities in Chicago that are free, or virtually free, to the public every day.

Re: hot dogs, No one in my group or within earshot last night mentioned hot dogs. No one in the business leadership here talks about hot dogs. Haven't heard it discussed by those folks in 14 years. The conversation about dining last night was mostly about the '00 and '05 Bordeaux we were drinking and the grilled steak sandwiches that one of the ladies prepared.

There are about three million people here (not counting the suburbs), which exceeds the sum of the population of North Carolina's three or four largest "cities" by a healthy margin. So we do have all kinds of people in this city, but thankfully not in the downtown business leadership class.

I suppose I could say who among our three million does talk about the proper hot dog -- yes, they do -- but they are NMCD and are easily avoided.

In contrast, a very large segment of the NC business leadership thinks it is quite all right, if not a moral duty, to talk about religion in the workplace. I would hear it weekly, at least, in the biggest banks and corporate offices. Business luncheons would begin with prayers to a very low-church Protestant god. And it continues today. Some of the zealots even manage to gain political office and embarrass the state nationally.

How extremely fortunate that Illinois has never been embarrassed by any of its politicians.


So you don't have museums, opera or fine dining that anyone would travel to experience, but you do have unavoidable religious proselytizing. "Good on you."

I will gladly pay "extra" to get extras and avoid negatives. And none of this would need to be said except that a few posters feel the need to point out that Illinois has high taxes and that life is cheaper elsewhere. Cheaper doesn't mean better.

More expensive doesn't mean the people have more class.

I grew up in New England, lived in the Chicago area for 16 years during the 1970s-1980s, and have lived in NC for a total of 31 years. Each area has its cultural plusses and minuses. Each area has its share of corrupt politicians. I have found that it is possible, if one makes the effort, to laud the benefits of one's place of residence without denigrating the entire culture and character of another place.