Explaining ER to people and looked down

"We've planned for this for many years, and we're well above financially secure." After saying this, no more replies are needed or worthwhile.
 
You've apparently done well enough to see a good retirement; you dont owe anyone any explanation (except your hub...and if he's happy with your choices, then thats all that matters). As far as a conversation with anyone else, I dont think you'll ever make anyone happy with your answer, no matter how long or short the conversation. So to save yourself aggravation, make it short. A simple "dont worry about me, Im doing just fine" should suffice.
 
livingalmostlarge said:
So I'm going to start with by saying my mom insulted me yesterday by saying that I need to get off my behind and get a job and not be a lady of leisure.* Maybe not right now with covid but soon I need to get back to working full time.* For sure when the kids are in middle and high school I need to be working full time.* I need a career and stop depending on my DH for income.* I am certainly cannot be doing nothing when they go to college. [...]
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Relatives drive people crazy, that's for sure. Believe me, I know first hand. That said, I am a 72-year-old mom and here's my point of view.

If I was your mom, I'd be worried about your future, after I'm gone. If you aren't working, you aren't building up social security or a work history to fall back on in job applications. And if I'm gone, I can't rescue you if you get in a financial pinch! Sure, you're fine NOW but what if you are living in a cardboard box under a bridge in 20 years, cursing my memory for not warning you to prepare for your needs in old age!

My point of view is that she is a "mama bird" trying to take care of her baby bird. It's a mother's nature to worry and cluck. Make sure she has zero real reason to worry about your future, and understand that really all this criticism is about love and concern.

I try really hard not to do this with my daughter! I know she's not a baby any more, but still it's not easy.
 
If someone’s observation or criticism affects me it is normally because some part of me agrees.

If I 100% do not agree it has no effect.
 
No issue whatsoever. I think they got the message after we sold our home, put everything in storage for a year, and left the country.

A few may have been surprised or critical but we are not the least bit bothered by what others think.

We certainly did not make an announcement of any kind. Why bother?
 
livingalmostlarge said:
I said nothing to not start a fight not worth fighting.* But the truth is I don't plan on really going back to work full time now, I don't see myself having a "career", and I don't think we need to work that much longer.* We've been hitting a lot of numbers that point to retiring before the kids go to college, but DH wants to work until they are done.* He's not ready and i'm not fighting.**Also we're close to our number at 41 and 43. If we don't save another penny I think we are done at 54 and 55 like we planned 2034. If we do save we'll likely be done sooner.
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Question for you, @livingalmostlarge: Why did you put asterisks * between your sentences in the above quoted paragraph?
 
livingalmostlarge said:
So I'm going to start with by saying my mom insulted me yesterday by saying that I need to get off my behind and get a job and not be a lady of leisure.* Maybe not right now with covid but soon I need to get back to working full time.* For sure when the kids are in middle and high school I need to be working full time.* I need a career and stop depending on my DH for income.* I am certainly cannot be doing nothing when they go to college.


I said nothing to not start a fight not worth fighting.* But the truth is I don't plan on really going back to work full time now, I don't see myself having a "career", and I don't think we need to work that much longer.* We've been hitting a lot of numbers that point to retiring before the kids go to college, but DH wants to work until they are done.* He's not ready and i'm not fighting.**Also we're close to our number at 41 and 43. If we don't save another penny I think we are done at 54 and 55 like we planned 2034. If we do save we'll likely be done sooner.

But how do you tell people (mostly family) that you don't need to work and are done? My mom and that generation (my aunts and uncles are like 65-75 and still working) because it is their identity.* They have no identity except working.* And they view people who retire as lazy and unmotivated and I was also told I wasted my education by not working now and I don't have a career. She can't wrap her head around me not being career driven, climbing the ladder and I really need to be going back and getting on the ladder.* What is my problem?* That's another argument not worth having.*

But seriously I don't want to do it and I like what I do working part-time usually. But it's not a career per se it's just work. I don't particularly care. My DH loves his career and he switched later in life and he constantly doesn't want to stop. If we end up with more than expected sooner would he stop? I don't know. He's classic OMY.

But how do you explain maybe not to strangers but certainly to family why you aren't working? My family gives me a lot of grief for not working. They are like you should be working. Why aren't you going out and making bacon? I don't even touch what we have saved or how it's going. But it's obvious that we are fine. We don't take a penny from anyone and never have.

I feel like family put their nose where it doesn't belong versus strangers probably are reticent at questioning how you are RE. I also feel more people get being "stay at home parent" so it's a free pass about not working. But for my family? They don't get why I don't work and how will we ever retire?
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I would just look her in the eye and say firmly but kindly, "Mom, I love you, but my life choices are none of your business."

It WILL start a fight esp if she's not used to you being assertive before, but if you don't enforce boundaries, it won't stop EVER.

I recommend the book, "Boundaries", by Henry Cloud. You may benefit immensely from it. Good luck!
 
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Perhaps just being honest--"I am working part time and staying at home to be here while our kids grow up. I appreciate your concern, we are doing fine financially."
That is even more explanation than anyone needs really, but it is your Mom.
If it continues, either ignore, change the subject, or perhaps asking "I wonder why you are asking me that?" may even get her to recognize how invasive her line of questioning is.
Good Luck--it is your life and choices are up to you and DH, nobody else's business!
 
W2R said:
Relatives drive people crazy, that's for sure. Believe me, I know first hand. That said, I am a 72-year-old mom and here's my point of view.

If I was your mom, I'd be worried about your future, after I'm gone. If you aren't working, you aren't building up social security or a work history to fall back on in job applications. And if I'm gone, I can't rescue you if you get in a financial pinch! Sure, you're fine NOW but what if you are living in a cardboard box under a bridge in 20 years, cursing my memory for not warning you to prepare for your needs in old age!

My point of view is that she is a "mama bird" trying to take care of her baby bird. It's a mother's nature to worry and cluck. Make sure she has zero real reason to worry about your future, and understand that really all this criticism is about love and concern.

I try really hard not to do this with my daughter! I know she's not a baby any more, but still it's not easy.
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Sorry, but clicking & fussing & being "concerned" are NO excuses to disrespect & abuse anyone of being "lazy, unmotivated & individuals of leisure".

I grew up with abusive, controlling parents & the OP's post raises some very deep red flags here, and her mother's choice of words indicate a lack of respect for BOTH personal boundaries & OP as a grown woman who has the right to make her choices.

If the mother has genuine concerns, there's a kinder & more respectful way to have that discussion.

There's a STRONG line separating constructive criticism from toxic boundary busting behavior and the mother here is engaging in the latter, not the former.
 
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livingalmostlarge said:
So I'm going to start with by saying my mom insulted me yesterday by saying that I need to get off my behind and get a job and not be a lady of leisure. ...... .... can't wrap her head around me not being career driven, climbing the ladder and I really need to be going back and getting on the ladder. ... family put their nose where it doesn't belong ... They don't get why I don't work and how will we ever retire?
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OMG I could have written a variation of this!!

My sister retired 2 weeks ago because she really just didn't want to work until 8 o'clock at night anymore. This sister has a pension of $5000 month and spends less than that so she could afford to retire. But her son has been giving her really bad time asking 'when is she going to do something' type questions. I told her she's financially secured and can spend her time doing something she wants to instead of something she has to.

At a certain point we have more than enough monthly income, more than enough assets, and all the stuff we want to. I say the last part because she spent the 1st week bagging up 6 trash bags full of fairly new business clothes and dropping them off at wardrobe for opportunity.

I just wish some people would keep their opinions to themselves. Chasing that last dollar when we have more than enough dollars in the bank is not important to everybody. For some of us it's more important to enjoy our lives
 
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Are they really worried about your not working, or do they just noodge about everything?

In other words, suppose you went out and got a hot-shot full-time job. Would they move on to criticizing something else?

Because sometimes, I've found, you cannot win with certain people. It's about them, not you.

livingalmostlarge said:
So I'm going to start with by saying my mom insulted me yesterday by saying that I need to get off my behind and get a job and not be a lady of leisure.* Maybe not right now with covid but soon I need to get back to working full time.* For sure when the kids are in middle and high school I need to be working full time.* I need a career and stop depending on my DH for income.* I am certainly cannot be doing nothing when they go to college.


I said nothing to not start a fight not worth fighting.* But the truth is I don't plan on really going back to work full time now, I don't see myself having a "career", and I don't think we need to work that much longer.* We've been hitting a lot of numbers that point to retiring before the kids go to college, but DH wants to work until they are done.* He's not ready and i'm not fighting.**Also we're close to our number at 41 and 43. If we don't save another penny I think we are done at 54 and 55 like we planned 2034. If we do save we'll likely be done sooner.

But how do you tell people (mostly family) that you don't need to work and are done? My mom and that generation (my aunts and uncles are like 65-75 and still working) because it is their identity.* They have no identity except working.* And they view people who retire as lazy and unmotivated and I was also told I wasted my education by not working now and I don't have a career. She can't wrap her head around me not being career driven, climbing the ladder and I really need to be going back and getting on the ladder.* What is my problem?* That's another argument not worth having.*

But seriously I don't want to do it and I like what I do working part-time usually. But it's not a career per se it's just work. I don't particularly care. My DH loves his career and he switched later in life and he constantly doesn't want to stop. If we end up with more than expected sooner would he stop? I don't know. He's classic OMY.

But how do you explain maybe not to strangers but certainly to family why you aren't working? My family gives me a lot of grief for not working. They are like you should be working. Why aren't you going out and making bacon? I don't even touch what we have saved or how it's going. But it's obvious that we are fine. We don't take a penny from anyone and never have.

I feel like family put their nose where it doesn't belong versus strangers probably are reticent at questioning how you are RE. I also feel more people get being "stay at home parent" so it's a free pass about not working. But for my family? They don't get why I don't work and how will we ever retire?
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We did not spend 30 seconds worrying about what some people might have thought about our early retirement decision.

Besides, what is there to explain? It was self explanatory....we had the desire and the financial resources to stop working and move into a different phase of our lives. End of.

What is the point....we cannot control someone else's thoughts or opinions. It is down to us whether we choose to allow someone else's opinion to bother us

Nor are we inclined to attempt to change them. It is a pointless exercise. We simply moved forward with our plans.
 
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W2R said:
Relatives drive people crazy, that's for sure. Believe me, I know first hand. That said, I am a 72-year-old mom and here's my point of view.

If I was your mom, I'd be worried about your future, after I'm gone. If you aren't working, you aren't building up social security or a work history to fall back on in job applications. And if I'm gone, I can't rescue you if you get in a financial pinch! Sure, you're fine NOW but what if you are living in a cardboard box under a bridge in 20 years, cursing my memory for not warning you to prepare for your needs in old age!

My point of view is that she is a "mama bird" trying to take care of her baby bird. It's a mother's nature to worry and cluck. Make sure she has zero real reason to worry about your future, and understand that really all this criticism is about love and concern.

I try really hard not to do this with my daughter! I know she's not a baby any more, but still it's not easy.
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Yeah tell she told me get off my ass. She's blunt and a force to be reckoned with. And yes financial insecurity for sure. But you don't get where she is without being driven and forceful. Single parent and here I am lazing about. Sigh I know she wanted me to have the perfect career and I achieved everything academically she wanted. And the I let her down after my "ivy" degrees (under and grad) and no career. Instead I just chill and work in a job.

I appreciate w2r because i think that's a big part of it. The way you wrote it i think is a lot of what she's thinking. She's freaking out that I won't have enough. What if something happens. Actually i've worked enough to qualify for SS but not more than 1/2 my DH. We've been married 17 years. I don't have a job history to get a "good" job by her definition. So W2R am I wrong in not working? I mean if we hit our FIRE number already does it matter i don't work? I ask because we will be there by the time the kids are in high school or college. So then do I need to work if I don't want to?

Nope I don't know how I will contribute to the world. I guess I contribute now raising the kids and making our lifestyle smooth. I do everything and I like it. I am a control freak. But could my DH do it without me? No for a lot of reasons I won't get into. I just like my life slower.
 
To the OP, since this is family you're dealing with, I suppose you could give them vague financial details as the reason you no longer need a paying job.

"We've been saving/investing a good percentage of our income for XX years and now have a few million dollars put away."
"And our annual income should be close to $100k per year without ever having a paying job again!"

That should quiet them down a bit...
 
livingalmostlarge said:
Yeah tell she told me get off my ass. She's blunt and a force to be reckoned with. And yes financial insecurity for sure. But you don't get where she is without being driven and forceful. Single parent and here I am lazing about. Sigh I know she wanted me to have the perfect career and I achieved everything academically she wanted. And the I let her down after my "ivy" degrees (under and grad) and no career. Instead I just chill and work in a job.

I appreciate w2r because i think that's a big part of it. The way you wrote it i think is a lot of what she's thinking. She's freaking out that I won't have enough. What if something happens. Actually i've worked enough to qualify for SS but not more than 1/2 my DH. We've been married 17 years. I don't have a job history to get a "good" job by her definition. So W2R am I wrong in not working? I mean if we hit our FIRE number already does it matter i don't work? I ask because we will be there by the time the kids are in high school or college. So then do I need to work if I don't want to?

Nope I don't know how I will contribute to the world. I guess I contribute now raising the kids and making our lifestyle smooth. I do everything and I like it. I am a control freak. But could my DH do it without me? No for a lot of reasons I won't get into. I just like my life slower.
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Apparently you and your Mom are alike as you freely admit you are a control freak. I'm guessing that apple didn't fall far from the tree. Two strong willed ladies with different opinions. .
 
If I were your Mom, the one practical thing I would have mentioned is "But what if you end up alone?"

She may worry that if your husband meets with an accident, or even decides to fly the coop, you and her grandkids could be left with...not enough.

So, if you can look yourself in the eye and say "Even without my DH, the kids and I would be OK" (whether it's life insurance, a pre-nup, whatever fits the bill), then you can also look Mama in the eye and say "We will be OK."

Notice I said nothing about your being "lazy," "wasting" your college education, or any of that other loaded stuff you have been hearing. I'm only talking about real-life perils that all women, and men too, need to be aware of. This being an early retirement forum, most of us saw our work as a means to an end, not something we did to prove something to our parents and the world. Even those of us who worked very, very hard.
 
Originally Posted by Which Roger
Jealousy is the most likely reason.
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FANOFJESUS said:
I don't think that is it. He is worth many times what I am. I did retire about 20 years before he did. Maybe that is it.
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I think people in this situation, should carry around a couple of business Cards that say, I'm a Green eyed Monster. Present it to the complainer and ask that every time they want to complain about how you live your life they must present it. This makes it very clear where you think their opinion comes from.
 

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chassis said:
Serious question. Wasting away in Margaritaville is not a good way to live. How will you be productive to yourself and others, beyond "enjoying" life?
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Who says that anyone has to be "productive"? Where did this requirement come from?

I worked almost 30 years in law enforcement. As long as someone doesn't bother anyone else, where I come from that's plenty good enough. If he wants he (or she) can stay home, and "waste away in Margaritaville" until they fall off the couch if they are so inclined. I fail to see the harm to anyone else in it, nor why anyone else need concern themselves with it.
 
part time job

To the OP,

Never underestimate the value of the nebulousness of a legitimate, paying part-time job for ER...(technically ESR, but still...)

You say you have a part-time job...start using these phrases to talk it up with your Mom and others...whether you work 4 hours a month or 40+ hours a week is none of their business...leave that detail out.

Even if you only work a handful of days a year, look at all you have access to...

"I have to go to work that day"
"I have to go make a phone call for work"
"I have to send an email for work"
"I just got off work and I'm tired"
"I have to rest now, because I have to go in early tomorrow"
"My boss is gone, so they asked me to put in some extra hours"
"I'm on call for work, so..."
"I might have to work that day..."
"I have a work meeting then"
"I have to do some training for work"
"I'm working from home today"
"I'm having lunch with a co-worker then"
"I was just talking with a co-worker about..."


It's a shame, and possibly a sacrilege to people on this site...but I find that dropping these phrases legitimately every now and then is KEY to maintaining healthy relationships with neighbors, friends, family, etc. in ER. Besides keeping jealousy at bay, these phrases push others to respect your time. Yes, you can flat out tell people you are early retired...but our society is not wired to really understand that.

To go a little further and guess perhaps about your personal situation...
If it's an Ivy league education your mother (and you too perhaps) are concerned about using/not using....consider tutoring...you can work 2-3 hours per week and no one can ever say anything about you not using your education....and you will have legitimate access to all the wonderful phrases above! lol...

All the best,
LB
 
chassis said:
To be fair, what will you do with your time and energy to make the world a better place? Serious question. Wasting away in Margaritaville is not a good way to live. How will you be productive to yourself and others, beyond "enjoying" life?
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I get to do anything I want whenever I want and I don't care (and it's none of your business) whether or not it meets your standards. ;)
 
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