Explaining ER to people and looked down

[jollystomper]

For me, this falls into the "those who matter do not mind, those who mind do not matter" philosophy of life.

Anyone who puts down achievements, whether family, friend, or foe, is someone I will be polite to, but may not choose to spend a lot of time around.

ER "productivity" is in the eye of the beholder. Just as many get into trouble trying to "keep up with the Joneses" from a financial viewpoint, many can get into trouble, perhaps from a security/self-image standpoint, trying to meet others "productivity" expectations after achieving FIRE.

 

[Gumby]

I am most assuredly no longer productive, and that suits me just fine. I have no problem amusing myself on a daily basis.

 

[beernutzbob]

So I'm going to start with by saying my mom insulted me yesterday by saying that I need to get off my behind and get a job and not be a lady of leisure.* Maybe not right now with covid but soon I need to get back to working full time.* For sure when the kids are in middle and high school I need to be working full time.* I need a career and stop depending on my DH for income.* I am certainly cannot be doing nothing when they go to college.


I said nothing to not start a fight not worth fighting.* But the truth is I don't plan on really going back to work full time now, I don't see myself having a "career", and I don't think we need to work that much longer.* We've been hitting a lot of numbers that point to retiring before the kids go to college, but DH wants to work until they are done.* He's not ready and i'm not fighting.**Also we're close to our number at 41 and 43. If we don't save another penny I think we are done at 54 and 55 like we planned 2034. If we do save we'll likely be done sooner.

But how do you tell people (mostly family) that you don't need to work and are done? My mom and that generation (my aunts and uncles are like 65-75 and still working) because it is their identity.* They have no identity except working.* And they view people who retire as lazy and unmotivated and I was also told I wasted my education by not working now and I don't have a career. She can't wrap her head around me not being career driven, climbing the ladder and I really need to be going back and getting on the ladder.* What is my problem?* That's another argument not worth having.*

But seriously I don't want to do it and I like what I do working part-time usually. But it's not a career per se it's just work. I don't particularly care. My DH loves his career and he switched later in life and he constantly doesn't want to stop. If we end up with more than expected sooner would he stop? I don't know. He's classic OMY.

But how do you explain maybe not to strangers but certainly to family why you aren't working? My family gives me a lot of grief for not working. They are like you should be working. Why aren't you going out and making bacon? I don't even touch what we have saved or how it's going. But it's obvious that we are fine. We don't take a penny from anyone and never have.

I feel like family put their nose where it doesn't belong versus strangers probably are reticent at questioning how you are RE. I also feel more people get being "stay at home parent" so it's a free pass about not working. But for my family? They don't get why I don't work and how will we ever retire?

IMO, you need to learn in-one-ear-and-out-the-other-fu.
Relatives and friends can be your greatest assets. They can also be giant, intrusive PITAs. Focus on the former and let the latter go.

What's with the asterisks?

 

[Lewis Clark]

...How will you be productive to yourself and others, beyond "enjoying" life?...

Just having a job does not mean anyone is productive to themselves or others.

 

[CoolRich59]

ER is viewed by some as unproductive. To be fair, what will you do with your time and energy to make the world a better place? Serious question. Wasting away in Margaritaville is not a good way to live. How will you be productive to yourself and others, beyond "enjoying" life?

All due respect, but I disagree.

In some ways, my retirement did not really begin until it dawned on me that I did not need to be busy doing anything and didn't owe anyone an explanation why.

Now whenever someone asks me what I do all day, I smile and say "as little as possible".

 

[Walt34]

Just having a job does not mean anyone is productive to themselves or others.

Oh, I dunno. I'll grant that there are plenty of "Wallys" around, but even then someone is paying them for something even if that something is simply to fill a slot or else they wouldn't have a job.

I'll go back to my previous answer: As long as a person is not bothering anyone else does it matter what they are doing?

And who defines "productive" and what gives them the right to do so?

 

[Dtail]

We live in a community whereby ~80% of the people work and 20% retired.
No one questions why we are retired.

 

[pb4uski]

...how do you explain maybe not to strangers but certainly to family why you aren't working?...

Because I don't have to work and have chosen not to work.

Any other stoopid questions?

 

[unclemick]

I think I must have missed the chapter in the ER manual that details this requirement.

I watch grass grow. The new new is carbon sequestration. My cheering on the grass is saving the planet.

In ER it is hard to be humble.

Heh heh heh -

 

[RobbieB]

I used to be productive. Now I'm retired. I don't have to produce Juan Merde.

 

[teetee]

Always be respectful and not confront your parents.

Other than that, do what you have been doing. Your parents will not be able to understand. Their minds are from a good place but their minds are not up to date. It is a simple generation gap that no one has control of.

 

[Gremlin]

Yeah tell she told me get off my ass. She's blunt and a force to be reckoned with. And yes financial insecurity for sure. But you don't get where she is without being driven and forceful. Single parent and here I am lazing about. Sigh I know she wanted me to have the perfect career and I achieved everything academically she wanted. And the I let her down after my "ivy" degrees (under and grad) and no career. Instead I just chill and work in a job.

I appreciate w2r because i think that's a big part of it. The way you wrote it i think is a lot of what she's thinking. She's freaking out that I won't have enough. What if something happens. Actually i've worked enough to qualify for SS but not more than 1/2 my DH. We've been married 17 years. I don't have a job history to get a "good" job by her definition. So W2R am I wrong in not working? I mean if we hit our FIRE number already does it matter i don't work? I ask because we will be there by the time the kids are in high school or college. So then do I need to work if I don't want to?

Nope I don't know how I will contribute to the world. I guess I contribute now raising the kids and making our lifestyle smooth. I do everything and I like it. I am a control freak. But could my DH do it without me? No for a lot of reasons I won't get into. I just like my life slower.

I agree with w2R that your mom could just be worried about your future, because mom’s worry : ) I also agree with the suggestions that your mother might be jealous. If she, as you stated, had to work long and hard to get what she has, she might not appreciate just how hard you have been working as well. Or if she were a single mom, she might feel jealous of the fact that the opportunity of choosing to be a stay at home mom wasn’t available to her.

I’d like to add that this also might represent a generational gap in expectations. I’ve run into this mind set from time to time, especially from my own mom. From the time me and my sister were quite little, my mother drilled into us the importance of having a career and not relying on a husband for support. Partly because of her rough childhood growing up. But also because, as she used to say, she had two career options growing up: teacher or nurse (she chose nurse) And she was very sensitive to the fact that women had only recently had more career opportunities available to them. I think if I had chosen to stay at home with my kids she might have viewed it as somehow betraying all those women who came before me who had fought to be accepted as working moms in the field of their choosing. Of course, the fight was for women to have the right to make a CHOICE as to their future. Not dictate they work at a job outside the home! But logic often takes a backseat when strong emotions are at play.

 

[Katiek]

You know your family so you better know the intent behind the comments. It could be they're being judgemental. Or it could be that they are anxious about financial security (some people continue to worry even if they are "set") and they are worried for you as well. They mean well, but express it badly. Or they could see your choosing a different path as a rejection of the things they think are important (or your spending time with your family may make them defensive about their own choices)



In either event, you won't get far by trying to explain it to them. So a polite but definite statement that this decision is what works best for your family and that although your appreciate their concern, you're fine.

 

[Markola]

Friends of Bob Barker: “But what will you DO after you retire?”

Bob Barker: “I was under the impression that after I retire, I don’t have to DO anything.”

 

[skyking1]

looking back at the OP, there is no small amount of concern about her being dependent on her husband's income. That is a genuine concern for many. i imagine her mom has seen wives who have been left in a lurch and have no means or experience to make their own way. Just a thought.

 

[flintnational]

OP, my wife recommends the book "Boundaries"* by Henry Cloud to friends and family that are dealing with folks in their lives that over step. I don't think the issue is whether you w*rk or not. I think the issue is that your DM thinks she gets a vote in how you choose to lead your life.

*The book subtitle is, "When to say yes, How to say no to take control of your life".

 

[brett]

I do not understand this.

It is only a problem because you choose to make it a problem for yourself.

You choose to let those comments bother or hurt you and you choose to believe that it is necessary for you to change the opinions of loved ones.

Why bother? Just move on. Make the choice not to let those comments bother your and move on with your life. This is entirely up to you.

Really, do you really think that you can change your mother's view on this subject? Let it go and move forward.

 

[Jerry1]

I have a friend who is now retired. She used to work for me and ended up retiring after me, but still younger than me. When anyone asks her what she’s doing, she simply states “Living my best life.” I submit that once you really believe that, the issues you have with other people regarding retirement just don’t matter.

 

[pb4uski]

OP, my wife recommends the book "Boundaries"* by Henry Cloud to friends and family that are dealing with folks in their lives that over step. I don't think the issue is whether you w*rk or not. I think the issue is that your DM thinks she gets a vote in how you choose to lead your life.

*The book subtitle is, "When to say yes, How to say no to take control of your life".

Interesting perspective.... spot on.

 

[Gumby]

My mother had many opinions, and she wasn't shy about sharing them with anybody and everybody. I learned early in life to just let them go in one ear and right out the other.

 

[brett]

my mother had many opinions, and she wasn't shy about sharing them with anybody and everybody. I learned early in life to just let them go in one ear and right out the other.

Exactly! VERY good advice. This is your problem, not your mother's.

 

[ejman]

ER is viewed by some as unproductive. To be fair, what will you do with your time and energy to make the world a better place? Serious question. Wasting away in Margaritaville is not a good way to live. How will you be productive to yourself and others, beyond "enjoying" life?

ER is not understood by many. It can also be a trigger for jealousy.

ER is a legitimate option for all people. It is not a practical option for all people.

What will you do with your time and energy when ER?

What exactly is the relationship between ER and making the world a better place? I've been ER'd for 20 years now. As a result of that I'm usually not stressed and in a happy mood. In pre covid days I made it a point to smile to people at the store, let people pass me on the road and let others obviously stressed by work or whatever have priority. (Not so much during covid now as I'm sort of a hermit because of chemo treatments). So does one have to be mother Theresa to make the world a better place? We all have different arenas we play in. Why would it be wrong to enjoy life assuming one is not harming someone else by doing so? And if a person enjoys the dolce farniente - what is wrong with that?

 

[foxfirev5]

Always be respectful and not confront your parents.

Other than that, do what you have been doing. Your parents will not be able to understand. Their minds are from a good place but their minds are not up to date. It is a simple generation gap that no one has control of.

Good advice. However now I'm struggling with the consequence's. As DW states it: Now we know what we'll do with the extra million.

 

[FIREd]

I'm fully FIREd at age 46 and I know that my parents don't get it. So what. As long as they don't pay my bills, they have no say in the matter.

 

[reneeh63]

OP, my wife recommends the book "Boundaries"* by Henry Cloud to friends and family that are dealing with folks in their lives that over step. I don't think the issue is whether you w*rk or not. I think the issue is that your DM thinks she gets a vote in how you choose to lead your life.

*The book subtitle is, "When to say yes, How to say no to take control of your life".

Just FYI, though it has a lot of great ratings on Amazon, most of the 3* and lower ones mention that there is a lot of scripture quoted and it has a strong religious bent. So keep that in mind if that's not your cup of tea.