Family Issue

[gozer]

If my parents were in my shoes, they would probably divide equally. Something inside me just resists that. I feel like I would be rewarding bad behavior.

I would feel the same as you.

 

[gozer]

Lots of good advice, but I want to weigh in that I strongly agree that you should do this, and do it soon, independent of any other decisions.

Having the 'good child' as Executor and dishing out possible bad news to the 'difficult child' is nothing but trouble all the way around. Hire a third party for this task.

Regardless how well the 'good child' performs their duties as Executor, it is very likely that the 'difficult child' will find problems, imagined or otherwise. Do not saddle the 'good child' with this. Much better to have the messenger be a disinterested third party.

-ERD50

Speaking as a "good son executor", I really agree with this. Dealing with my dad's estate in 10-20 years is my biggest nightmare.

 

[Gatordoc50]

I'd split it between the kids and not give it another thought.

 

[tinlizzy]

+1 on an estate attorney.

IMHO - Treat each family the same. You never know what your children will, or can do after your gone. Im just learning about relationships DF had cut off, due to a perceived unfairness in his DM estate. What an injustice he did to our families.

If it goes to the one generation it should be equal percentages. If you want to skip a generation, do it the same.

You can only help make it possible for families to heal, by doing no harm.

MRG

I agree with this - divide it equally. Life is too short and you sound like you love this child despite the behavior. At least you will go to your grave following your heart. This may be the lesson that your child needs.

 

[meierlde]

I agree with this - divide it equally. Life is too short and you sound like you love this child despite the behavior. At least you will go to your grave following your heart. This may be the lesson that your child needs.

Another possiblity would be the spendthrift trust run by a bank, that would provide some income to the child, but leave the bulk of the estate to the grandchildren at some age. Again a good estate lawyer would know how to handle this.

 

[brett]

Forget the comments by others.

You need to see a good estate lawyer in your jurisdiction. . In the last jurisdiction in which we lived there was legislation in place that dictated equal division among children. It was possible to get around this, but it meant having the will drawn up by knowledgeable counsel.

 

[JPatrick]

Now for the financial issue. I inherited a goodly sum from my parents and I have been able to grow the amount even larger. I have never viewed this money as mine, but as my parents, since they worked so hard and were frugal. I am simply the caretaker of the principal. Might sound crazy, but that is how I feel in my heart about it.

Just want to let you know that I have the same caretaker feeling about the money DW and I inherited from our parents.
Now the disbursement of the remainder of the cash will be done in a much more subjective manner. Sounds like a veiled threat doesn't it..?
It is.
Good luck!

 

[BobMax]

I agree with the advice about getting an estate lawyer. Estate laws vary from state to state so don't assume a will is all you need.

You are the only one who can determine what to do with your daughters.

 

[RitaR551]

Lots of good advice here. Thanks to those who agreed with and also those who didn't. I wanted to hear from both sides for a fresh perspective. I will go the Trust route. My DH was a non-relative guardian for an elderly lady who had two dipsticks for sons. The lady's husband set up a nonrevocable Trust. The boys still tried to get their hands on the money before she died, but to no avail. DH was also executor, but doggone it if she didn't outlive her boys. Her church got what little that was left.

 

[aim-high]

Since you don't plan on spending the money you inherited from your parents on yourself, why not start disbursing that sum to the close child? That way, close child and family can start enjoying the money now, and there will be less money left to fight over when the time comes.

+1

In addition, from what you written, it doesn't seem like you're being the least bit vindictive. It seems to me that you've bent over backwards and done everything you can do.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Just a thought, but do you know if your problem child even wants or would accept the inheritance money?

 

[Lcountz]

Fire'd and LoneAspen are right on. Start gifting money NOW to the good child and his/her spouse. No one has to know. CHeck out the maximum you can give. They sound like they would help you if you ever needed it so don't worry about running out of money ....

Unfortunately, these "kids" are also "people" with all the foibles people have. They have a choice to ignore you and treat you as if you don't exist....so YOU have such a choice as well. They will get the message some day. There is no rule that you have to leave ANYTHING to your kids.....



Good luck. And start gifting TOMORROW. Before it's too late.

 

[NH Hiker]

TOD accounts?

Note: I edited this as I missed the post that money was definitely going to the non-relationship grandchildren. So TOD accounts are not useful for this case. Leaving the original post for other people that may want to use TOD accounts instead of a trust.

--------------------

A trust is certainly a good thing - DW and I have ones. However, if you only want one beneficiary, I believe TOD accounts can transfer a lot of assets (IRA, 401Ks, investment accounts, etc) with less work.

You basically put the main beneficiary as your spouse (since most likely DH and you will not die at the same time), then the secondary beneficiary would be the DD. The money transfers immediately and I believe can't be contested since it is not part of your will.

There are tax reasons to do this with retirement accounts rather than putting them in the trust. A beneficiary can choose to take out money on a expected lifetime basis instead of in a lump sum or 5 year period.

Putting property in the trust can be a bit of a pain. I believe a house will need a new deed, if you have lots of different assets, each one will require forms and possible notarized signatures, etc.

So if giving everything to DD, one alternative would be to use TOD for all the retirement/investment/bank accounts and a will for the house/cars. Non-relationship child could possibly contest, but there may not be much to fight over depending on the house/cars/household contents. It might be a lower cost, easier alternative to a trust. You do want to make sure that DD or your transferred assets have enough liquidity to pay your funeral expenses and other estate expenses as the estate will be cash poor.

Of course, if you want more control over whether/how it goes to non-relationship grandchildren, then a trust would be better.

I certainly am not an expert in taxes or the law so I might be all wrong on this. You would definitely want to discuss this with your lawyer.

 

[sheehs1]

+1 on an estate attorney.

IMHO - Treat each family the same. You never know what your children will, or can do after your gone. Im just learning about relationships DF had cut off, due to a perceived unfairness in his DM estate. What an injustice he did to our families.

If it goes to the one generation it should be equal percentages. If you want to skip a generation, do it the same.

You can only help make it possible for families to heal, by doing no harm.

MRG

RitaR551 I tend to agree with MRG although it is your decision. I know first hand how not treating your children the same or at least in their eyes the same leaves a legacy they will never forget, never outlive, foster disharmony and basically nails the coffin shut for any coming together later on in their lives.

What kind of relationship do you hope your sons will have with each other when they are older, you are gone and they have only each other as biological family? Do you want what you leave them to be a factor in how all that plays out.? Only you have the answers for this. Perhaps their relationship will never be close.

My mother left everything equally between us 4 siblings. The Unified Tax Credit amount was immediately distributed and the rest put in a marital trust for my father. When he died, all of her assets in her trust were distributed equally. I was trustee.
Not so my Dad. While the assets in my mother's trust were distributed equally, his assets were not. My older sister was executor, got her hands on the will and had changes made and had my Dad sign. He had Parkinsons and cancer and the changes were made within 6 months of his death. No one contested it although there were pretty hard feelings that to this day remain.

I thought to myself then it was a cruel legacy to leave. We will never know if he fully comprehended what he was doing. Needless to say, older sister made out like a bandit. (pun intended)

Consequently, my mother is more respected than my Dad. One thing we always say is, "at least Mom was fair". We view Dad as the one creating disharmony both in life and in death.

That said, you could certainly set up a different trust for "good son" that stacks the decks you want or you could make him a co-owner on some assets or use the Transfer On Death designation. Regardless I believe all of your assets will have to be listed on an accounting and your other son is entitled to a copy so he may see it anyway.

But I definitely understand why you want good son to get more.
Lastly and specifically in your will I would do these two things if you choose.
1) Specifically state that good son has been left more than other son because of the care he has granted you all of your life, etc. This way the courts will know it was not an oversight on your part and that these were your wishes and intentions. Other son shouldn't feel bad about this particularly if it is the truth.

2) State that if anyone contests the will only your good son will inherit under your will.

Then go to a good estate lawyer.

 

[Delawaredave5]

The spirit of that weatlth, established by your parents, seems "use if you need, otherwise pay it forward". This is what you have done.

I would consider a trust with conditions saying next generation gets money only if they achieved an educational goal and only enough to suppmement them to a $75000 standard of living, for example. Otherwise hold for next generation. Don't know how much of this is executable.


As far as getting respect you deserve, you tried. Your parents probably had no "respect conditions", so neither would I.

 

[Texas Proud]

No! IMO, a will doesn't cover this issue 100%. A will can be contested in court and in your situation, child #1 would probably have every legal right to half your assets regardless of how you feel. IMO, a trust is more ironclad in terms of honoring what you want to do with your assets. I did this very thing to avoid lawsuits by those that may contest our wills. There may be other avenues to fit your needs and maybe some good legal minds out there can chime in. Also, your state of residence may determine your best course of action. Good luck.

I do not know why you would think that the other child would get half.... it has been many years ago, but I have seen where children have been left out of a will and it stood up in court....

And why do you think a trust is safer It can be challenged just like a will.... even after you die...

 

[Texas Proud]

After reading all the posts and suggestions....

I am in the camp of not leaving anything to someone who does not have any contact with you.... heck, I would rather leave money to a close friend than a child who has willfully abandoned spouse and me....

I do think that the beneficiary designations on your accounts are better than a will...

As to a trust.... that can be some work you do not want to do.... one idea is to set up a trust but do not fund it.... have your will leave all your assets to the trust....

No matter what you do, it can be challenged in court... there is no way you can set things up to prevent it....

 

[RitaR551]

Just a thought, but do you know if your problem child even wants or would accept the inheritance money?

That's a thought...especially since the last gift sent to the grandchildren were checks that were never cashed. That was at least five years ago, so guess I can stop looking for it to be deducted from my checking account ;-}

I think, however, the amount of inheritance would make the difference in his decision to accept. I'm sure he would take the money.

 

[RitaR551]

+1 In addition, from what you written, it doesn't seem like you're being the least bit vindictive. It seems to me that you've bent over backwards and done everything you can do.

Thank you. Believe me, we have bent over backwards, done a great deal of soul searching, reached out, prayed, cried and finally went on with our lives.

 

[Letj]

Is it possible that your estranged son doesn't know what you are worth? If so, gift a huge chunk to your other child while you are still alive and forget about it. Just tell him to keep his mouth shut. That way, no one in the family will know. If asked, he can always say I guess mom and dad left it all to charity.

 

[googily]

I'm somewhat in the "good child" position of this, though my mother's relationship with my brother (mainly his wife) was more just difficult rather than irrevocably broken.

Her desire, mentioned to me over and over, was that I would get her parents' house when she died. However, my dad apparently very forcefully argued that her estate be divided equally, and eventually the trust was set up that way. I have had two of mom's friends tell me that she talked to them during the writing of the trust, distraught, that she wanted me to have the house but Dad wasn't allowing it to be set up that way.

Her trust says that my brother and I get x amount, in cash or in kind. I've decided to take the house, and thankfully there isn't any argument from him. (After all, he knows he'll get to use it, and won't have to deal with the upkeep!)

On the other hand, my brother really came through during my mother's illness, and also in the aftermath in terms of organizing the various memorial events. And his kids are/were absolutely beloved by my mom and dad, so it's a different situation. But if he had fought me over that house, I might be a lot less generous in my thoughts about how it all came out, especially toward my dad, who so clearly beat back my mom's wishes.

Now, if it were me in your shoes, and there were no contact at all, I'd do just what you are talking about doing, though I'm not sure I'd do equals halves to good child/other child's kids. But the advice to get an attorney and set up a trust is a good one.

 

[LoneAspen]

Not trying to hijack the thread, I just have to get this off my chest...

I think it's criminal that people cannot stipulate in their wills or trusts what they want to happen to THEIR money when they die, and not have it contested.

I should have an inviolate right to stipulate what happens to my money and my property upon my death, and those instructions should be followed to the latter, no matter what other people think, including family members.

If I knew there was going to be an outcry, and lawsuits, etc, after my death, I'd just liquidate everything into cash, and start dropping it anonymously into the donation boxes at local churches. That way, NOBODY got anything.

A person should have the right to choose what happens to their estate after they die, without question. It's sickening to me that those rights aren't respected, and can be overturned.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

That's a thought...especially since the last gift sent to the grandchildren were checks that were never cashed. That was at least five years ago, so guess I can stop looking for it to be deducted from my checking account ;-}

I think, however, the amount of inheritance would make the difference in his decision to accept. I'm sure he would take the money.

I suggest you have an attorney contact your problem child on the pretense of information needed for your will and see if he is even interested. Seriously, he may not even feel right taking the money considering your strained relationship, and might turn it down or give it to charity anyway. If that is the case, then you might as well give it to your other child, skip a generation and have it go to his kids, or give it to a charity of your choosing. You son may be well enough off he may not even need the money and would rather see it go to his sibling.

You are trying to solve a problem before you have determined if there is a problem to solve. He is not taking your money now. Maybe the amount wouldn't change his feelings.

 

[H2ODude]

Well, here's a different perspective. I was the good son, brother the evil one. Parents had a not insignificant stash that father had in a revocable trust that I was co-trustee on. When he passed, brother never even knew what went to me (100%).

On the personal side I could write reams about what went wrong between parents and brother over last 2 years of mother's life. Tales of things that had happened when told by parents were totally opposite of what brother told. I
ASSUME parents were more correct, but to this day am somewhat questioning. Have pretty much lost contact with brother, and that's ok. Am happy to say that our two children are terrific, and it's equal between the two. It seems all families (well, most?) have some dysfunction somewhere in the tree.

And, FWIW as I saw the relationship deteriorate with brother and parents, I warned him there was money that he was likely removing himself from consideration for. Don't think it mattered that much to him. All quite in the past now.

 

[omni550]

I agree with this - divide it equally. Life is too short and you sound like you love this child despite the behavior. At least you will go to your grave following your heart. This may be the lesson that your child needs.

+1

Plus you never know what may happen going forward. That child may get divorced and/or mature and have a change of heart. You never know.

An unequal division of money will definitely ensure fostering disharmony.

omni