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03-03-2021, 03:22 PM
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#21
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Western NC
Posts: 4,633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USGrant1962
The sites that use the terms fat FIRE and lean FIRE generally say spending >$100K/year is fat and <$30-40K/year is lean.
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I assume they mean discretionary spending...$100k/year total in a HCOL might be mostly required spending.
E.g. look at Financial Samurai who claims his family can't live comfortably in San Francisco on $250k/year!
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03-03-2021, 03:31 PM
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#22
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,890
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I made a chart to track my progress.
Lean FIRE = base budget
FIRE = base + $15k blow that dough (BTD)
Fat FIRE = base + $30k BTD
Obese FIRE = base + $50k BTD
Morbidly Obese FIRE = base + $75k BTD
I put in my notice expecting to be fat FIRE. A generous severance package has pushed us closer to obese FIRE. Life is good.
__________________
Consistently sets low goals and fails to achieve them.
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03-03-2021, 03:39 PM
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#23
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: DC area
Posts: 2,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncbill
I assume they mean discretionary spending...$100k/year total in a HCOL might be mostly required spending.
E.g. look at Financial Samurai who claims his family can't live comfortably in San Francisco on $250k/year!
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Nope. They are looking at the average household income of ~$60K. Approaching half is lean, approaching double is fat. No more complicated than that. I understand the terms were first popularized on reddit among the wannabe under 40-year old FIRE community.
And yes, they also use barista FIRE - but I think that means you still need some income (baristas wages) but consider yourself FIRE anyway
__________________
FI and Semi-ER March 24, 2017
Consulting to stay engaged
"All models are wrong, some are useful." - George Box
“There is always a well-known solution to every human problem: neat, plausible, and wrong.” - H.L. Mencken
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03-03-2021, 04:32 PM
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#24
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Tampa
Posts: 11,300
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I have also seen over 100k spending as Fat fire, but I would think it probably is higher than that number.
__________________
TGIM
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03-03-2021, 06:48 PM
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#25
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by livingalmostlarge
So for people who retired with Fat FIRE. Did you work longer and get stuck with OMY? How did you decide you have enough? Is it ridiculous to think about needing 6 figures to retire?
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Well, you need to pay for your lifestyle, whatever that is. fat, lean, barista, coastal, obese... who cares. FIRE is about stopping when you've saved enough to support YOUR desired lifestyle. If you cross a threshold I guess you get a catchy title! I suppose mine is fistFIRE! It involves a lot of golf, hiking, tacos, pizza and BBQ.
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03-03-2021, 06:50 PM
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#26
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Hilton Head
Posts: 56
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I agree, fat fire is a step up from your working expenditures. You define the percent above, 10, 20 percent?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloom2708
It is relative to your spending while working.
Say your last year of w*rk you spent $120k.
Fat FIRE would imply spending $120k-$150k+. You spend the same or more than when w*rking.
One More Year is real. One less year taking from your portfolio, paying for health insurance. One year closer to Medicare/SS.
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03-03-2021, 06:58 PM
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#27
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtail
I have also seen over 100k spending as Fat fire, but I would think it probably is higher than that number.
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Well, you could live in a HCOL area, have a house and 2 kids, and that $100K wouldn't go far, and you wouldn't be eating caviar or drinking Dom.
__________________
Balance in everything.
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03-03-2021, 07:19 PM
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#28
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: DC area
Posts: 2,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HI Bill
Well, you could live in a HCOL area, have a house and 2 kids, and that $100K wouldn't go far, and you wouldn't be eating caviar or drinking Dom.
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The census says the median household income (presumably higher than spending) in the US is ~$66K. Living in HCOL a choice on how you spend your fatness...
FWIW, Cali median income (not spending) is ~$80K and the top ~40% make over $100K. So even there, spending >$100K (not income) is above average.
https://www.census.gov/library/visua...ld-income.html
__________________
FI and Semi-ER March 24, 2017
Consulting to stay engaged
"All models are wrong, some are useful." - George Box
“There is always a well-known solution to every human problem: neat, plausible, and wrong.” - H.L. Mencken
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03-03-2021, 07:22 PM
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#29
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9,182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtail
I have also seen over 100k spending as Fat fire, but I would think it probably is higher than that number.
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I agree. My budget is $100K and I certainly don’t feel like I’m living Fat. I see Fat FIRE as having things like two residences (snow birding) one them on a lake or close, if not on the beach. Upper Middle Class for sure. I don’t know where the line is, but I think over 100K and probably closer to $200K.
However, I like the definition based on your working status. If I was living on $X while working and I live on more than that in retirement, that’s Fat. By that standard, I guess I’m lean. I was living on much more as I was working. But, when I realized that I could live very well on less, I was happy to do so and call myself retired. Heck, I’m so effing grateful for what I have and the life it gives me. Fat or not, $100K provides a very comfortable life. All I need to do is not screw it up.
__________________
Every day when I open my eyes now it feels like a Saturday - David Gray
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03-03-2021, 07:31 PM
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#30
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: DC area
Posts: 2,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry1
I agree. My budget is $100K and I certainly don’t feel like I’m living Fat. I see Fat FIRE as having things like two residences (snow birding) one them on a lake or close, if not on the beach. Upper Middle Class for sure. I don’t know where the line is, but I think over 100K and probably closer to $200K.
However, I like the definition based on your working status. If I was living on $X while working and I live on more than that in retirement, that’s Fat. By that standard, I guess I’m lean. I was living on much more as I was working. But, when I realized that I could live very well on less, I was happy to do so and call myself retired. Heck, I’m so effing grateful for what I have and the life it gives me. Fat or not, $100K provides a very comfortable life. All I need to do is not screw it up.
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Fat FIRE and "upper middle class FIRE" are probably the same thing.
Fat and lean FIRE are regularly used terms in certain other forums. The definition you describe, comparing it to your work spending (I think, or was that work income?) was apparently just made up by Bloom2708. If not I would like to see references.
EDIT - and FWIW, the younger folks that use those terms on reddit would consider most of the members on ER.org to be fatFIRE.
__________________
FI and Semi-ER March 24, 2017
Consulting to stay engaged
"All models are wrong, some are useful." - George Box
“There is always a well-known solution to every human problem: neat, plausible, and wrong.” - H.L. Mencken
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03-03-2021, 08:30 PM
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#31
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: The Great Wide Open
Posts: 3,804
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DW and I didn't w*rk most of my life to live my retirement on a budget less than what we made when we were working. Wasn't going to happen. When all is said and done, looks like we could have retired earlier, but there was so many variables 2009-2010, and we never even thought about retiring. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Still no regrets.
__________________
Give me Liberty or give me Death. Patrick Henry
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03-03-2021, 09:27 PM
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#32
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Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 23,041
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My goal was always that our standard of living would stay the same or improve after we retired. So far, that has been the case. A label will not change things.
__________________
Living an analog life in the Digital Age.
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03-04-2021, 03:42 AM
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#33
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Leeward Oahu
Posts: 17,930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby
My goal was always that our standard of living would stay the same or improve after we retired. So far, that has been the case. A label will not change things.
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True, but "Fat Fire" just sounds so cool. I don't seem to spend a lot, but I could, so I'll claim "Fat Fire" status if only for the Cool of it.
__________________
Ko'olau's Law -
Anything which can be used can be misused. Anything which can be misused will be.
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03-04-2021, 04:56 AM
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#34
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta Suburb
Posts: 1,499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby
My goal was always that our standard of living would stay the same or improve after we retired. So far, that has been the case. A label will not change things.
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+1 Well said.
__________________
"Oh, twice as much ain't twice as good
And can't sustain like one half could
It's wanting more that's gonna send me to my knees" - John Mayer
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03-04-2021, 05:21 AM
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#35
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Tampa
Posts: 11,300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HI Bill
Well, you could live in a HCOL area, have a house and 2 kids, and that $100K wouldn't go far, and you wouldn't be eating caviar or drinking Dom.
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Agree and thus my comment. I used to live in a HCOL while working and 100k spending would have never cut it for us.
__________________
TGIM
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03-04-2021, 05:25 AM
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#36
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Tampa
Posts: 11,300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby
My goal was always that our standard of living would stay the same or improve after we retired. So far, that has been the case. A label will not change things.
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Interesting.
As for us, there was no way we were going to retire with the same spending as when we were working. It was close to 200k.
We changed our spending habits one year before retiring quite a bit and lessened it more upon retirement and don't feel like we are missing anything.
The work lifestyle just wouldn't fit us now anyways.
As one simple example, we never cooked and had a 40k food budget. It is still 14k yearly, but works great for us cooking 4x weekly.
__________________
TGIM
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03-04-2021, 05:27 AM
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#37
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Tampa
Posts: 11,300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry1
I agree. My budget is $100K and I certainly don’t feel like I’m living Fat. I see Fat FIRE as having things like two residences (snow birding) one them on a lake or close, if not on the beach. Upper Middle Class for sure. I don’t know where the line is, but I think over 100K and probably closer to $200K.
However, I like the definition based on your working status. If I was living on $X while working and I live on more than that in retirement, that’s Fat. By that standard, I guess I’m lean. I was living on much more as I was working. But, when I realized that I could live very well on less, I was happy to do so and call myself retired. Heck, I’m so effing grateful for what I have and the life it gives me. Fat or not, $100K provides a very comfortable life. All I need to do is not screw it up.
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Agree 100%. See my relative post #36.
__________________
TGIM
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03-04-2021, 07:37 AM
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#38
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Les Bois
Posts: 5,761
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I fat fired but then I lost 40 pounds in 2020
__________________
You can't be a retirement plan actuary without a retirement plan, otherwise you lose all credibility...
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03-04-2021, 09:06 AM
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#39
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flintnational
Fire status is based on BMI (Body Mass Index).
Lean Fire - BMI under 25
Moderate Fire - BMI from 26-29
Fat Fire - BMI over 30
It's a joke. It's just a joke.
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Currently in Fat Fire, working hard to get to Moderate Fire with a dream of Lean Fire someday!
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03-04-2021, 09:44 AM
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#40
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 670
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I believe Fat Fire goes well with a Low Carb diet.
While some level of Fat Fire spending might not feel that extravagant for people living in HCOL areas I would still argue that it is a Fat Fire. Since if their spending were cut down then they would not have been able to live in a HCOL area at all. And they still have the option of moving somewhere with a lower COL and spend a lot on ie travel or other hobbies.
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