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Old 03-04-2021, 10:58 AM   #41
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"Fat FIRE allows you to:
* Live in the most expensive cities in the world, which all have wonderful culture, food, nightlife, entertainment, schools, and arts

* Live in a comfortable house with at least three bedrooms, two bathrooms, and a yard if you have one or more kids, or a luxury two bedroom or greater condo if you are a childless couple or individual

* Save or have enough to pay for all your children’s college education

* Travel for 8 or more weeks a year while living in 4 or 5 star hotels

* Drive a safe and reliable car that’s not older than five years

* Eat and drink the finest foods

* Afford excellent healthcare

* Take care of all your parents financial needs since they sacrificed so much to raise you

* Have no need for either partner or spouse to work every again

Fat FIRE is at the opposite end from Lean FIRE, where individuals cut their expenses to the bare bones in order to survive."

https://www.financialsamurai.com/wha...-retire-early/
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Old 03-05-2021, 09:19 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Hitter View Post
"Fat FIRE allows you to:
* Live in the most expensive cities in the world, which all have wonderful culture, food, nightlife, entertainment, schools, and arts

* Live in a comfortable house with at least three bedrooms, two bathrooms, and a yard if you have one or more kids, or a luxury two bedroom or greater condo if you are a childless couple or individual

* Save or have enough to pay for all your children’s college education

* Travel for 8 or more weeks a year while living in 4 or 5 star hotels

* Drive a safe and reliable car that’s not older than five years

* Eat and drink the finest foods

* Afford excellent healthcare

* Take care of all your parents financial needs since they sacrificed so much to raise you

* Have no need for either partner or spouse to work every again

Fat FIRE is at the opposite end from Lean FIRE, where individuals cut their expenses to the bare bones in order to survive."

https://www.financialsamurai.com/wha...-retire-early/
He could actually FatFIRE if he moved out of San Francisco instead of whining about how his $250,000/year income (which he could continue to make from anywhere in the world) isn't sufficient to live there.

Though his complaining does point out the disadvantages of remaining in a HCOL area after retirement.
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Old 03-05-2021, 01:12 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Hitter View Post
"Fat FIRE allows you to:
* Live in the most expensive cities in the world, which all have wonderful culture, food, nightlife, entertainment, schools, and arts

* Live in a comfortable house with at least three bedrooms, two bathrooms, and a yard if you have one or more kids, or a luxury two bedroom or greater condo if you are a childless couple or individual

* Save or have enough to pay for all your childrenís college education

* Travel for 8 or more weeks a year while living in 4 or 5 star hotels

* Drive a safe and reliable car thatís not older than five years

* Eat and drink the finest foods

* Afford excellent healthcare

* Take care of all your parents financial needs since they sacrificed so much to raise you

* Have no need for either partner or spouse to work every again

Fat FIRE is at the opposite end from Lean FIRE, where individuals cut their expenses to the bare bones in order to survive."

https://www.financialsamurai.com/wha...-retire-early/

Bare bones, well guess that's in the eye of the beholder, and my eye tells me this is pretty arrogant. You couldn't pay me enough to live in one of the most expensive cities in the world.
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Old 03-05-2021, 03:04 PM   #44
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Old 03-06-2021, 12:08 PM   #45
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I guess 6 figures in a number is the annual spending in fatFIRE. If you make $1M a year, you can fatFIRE with many less years.
I was also thinking that OP meant a budget of at least 100k.
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Old 03-06-2021, 09:57 PM   #46
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snob alert!

from that blog's leanfire list......

" Living in a low cost area of the country where it’s more homogenous".
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Old 03-07-2021, 06:22 AM   #47
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First year base was = to last year of w*rk. Went 20% over to replace two old cars with one new car, and travel.
2nd year 125% of base, travel.
3rd year 160% of base, travel and remodeling
4th year 175% of base, travel and remodeling
This year expect 190% of base for same.
Each year, the rising market contributed to our willingness to BTD. This year's WR was 3%.
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Old 03-07-2021, 02:06 PM   #48
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First year base was = to last year of w*rk. Went 20% over to replace two old cars with one new car, and travel.
2nd year 125% of base, travel.
3rd year 160% of base, travel and remodeling
4th year 175% of base, travel and remodeling
This year expect 190% of base for same.
Each year, the rising market contributed to our willingness to BTD. This year's WR was 3%.
It seems like instead of a fixed withdrawal rate, you're taking a more flexible approach (which I'm hoping to do too). I'm assuming that when returns are good, you're willing to spend more on discretionary items and cut them when the portfolio has a poor year? Are you setting any upper limit guardrails for the maximum WR you are willing to have in year? Are you using the previous year's returns to guide for your spend in the current year or just adjusting as needed in the current year?
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Old 03-09-2021, 07:43 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by YVRRocketSurgery View Post
It seems like instead of a fixed withdrawal rate, you're taking a more flexible approach (which I'm hoping to do too). I'm assuming that when returns are good, you're willing to spend more on discretionary items and cut them when the portfolio has a poor year? Are you setting any upper limit guardrails for the maximum WR you are willing to have in year? Are you using the previous year's returns to guide for your spend in the current year or just adjusting as needed in the current year?
Flexible, yes. 1st year was a ridiculously overcautious 1.6% WR. We definitely spent more following a good year. The only weak year in the lot was 2018, where I was down 3.5%, but we still spend more in 2019, perhaps because the rebound was already happening. 3% is my max WR. This year is the end of the anticipated remodeling, so next year's spending will fall almost no matter what. Even if we replaced the car in 2022 (a 2018 model), we would spend less than this year.
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Old 03-09-2021, 10:45 AM   #50
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like a lot of things, the answer is relative. to someone living in a poor country, fat fire maybe having a warm, dry place to sleep and enough food to last several days. fat fire to me is a comparison of what my life style and spending at peak earnings during my *ork years to what the last four years of retirement have been.

looking back, after subtracting for savings, I am spending 50% more, so I'd say I was living fat. Ironically, I dont believe the money has really changed my day to day standard of living much-- incremental improvements overall in housing, food. the increase spend though really impacted my travel with about 2x travel at slightly better accommodations and roughly 2.5x's the Free time ( I figured with weekends and 30 days off a year when *working). all the free time has been the main driver to my increased stand of living in my opinion, which I am most grateful for and which we can all bask in.
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Old 03-09-2021, 11:14 AM   #51
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I feel blessed to be retired and able to maintain the same standard of living we had while working, plus extra to gift to kids and afford better accommodations when traveling.
I don't care what label it is, as long as we are able to pay the bills, enjoy life and not need to work!
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Old 03-09-2021, 11:19 AM   #52
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I'm 50 and at lean FIRE now. I'm hoping to hit Obese FIRE by 56 so I guess I'm in the several more years syndrome but I want to be sure I have the financial freedom to do whatever I want in retirement. That will include lots of travel and likely helping out my young adult children at that time (currently in grades, 6,8 and 10).
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Old 03-09-2021, 12:51 PM   #53
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I'm 50 and at lean FIRE now. I'm hoping to hit Obese FIRE by 56 so I guess I'm in the several more years syndrome but I want to be sure I have the financial freedom to do whatever I want in retirement. That will include lots of travel and likely helping out my young adult children at that time (currently in grades, 6,8 and 10).
Relayed elsewhere, this is sort of what happened to me. I was FI at 51 but stayed to 58 since the j*b had become enjoyable. I quit when that changed. I realized that in those 7 years, a lot had happened to my portfolio. I had continued maxing out the 401(k), added to the Roths (hers and mine) and had fairly good portfolio performance - even though I've always been a bit light on equities. Don't know how I would have described my FIRE status (the words more-than-adequate come to mind). In any case, I could never have imagined I would start to worry about how to deal with "getting rid" of my stash 15 years into FIRE. It's a good "problem" to have. Of course, end-of-life care could rear its ugly rear and spoil everything, but I'll worry about that tomorrow (just saw Gone With The Wind again yesterday.) YMMV
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Old 03-09-2021, 02:42 PM   #54
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I didn't retire all that early (age 63, 2013) but I did strive to have roughly the same net income (AGI) as my last few working years when I was maxing out retirement account contributions.

I was definitely watching my financial numbers the last five years before retiring but don't really think I was in the OMY rut. Maybe one year at the most.

In my case, that income was more than double my basic expenses, thus allowing for lots of discretionary spending and travel.

In the past few years I've both paid off my refied mortgage and started age 70 SS, so even FATter now.

But that doesn't mean I SPEND all current income left and right. I still fly coach (when travel happens again) and stay in good lodgings, not top shelf.
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Old 03-09-2021, 04:34 PM   #55
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In our case they were throwing money at me and I received a big inheritance at the same time so I blew way past fat FIRE. But I also enjoyed my job so I didn't want to retire real early, I left at 60.
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Old 03-09-2021, 04:41 PM   #56
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Planning to retire next year. I currently spend about $3000 per month, and I've given myself a budget of $4000 per month. My employer will cover most of my health insurance cost as a retiree. I've got it worked out to pay pretty much 0 federal tax for the first few years, until I start SS or have to take RMDs. Right now my savings are around 1.2 million. I'm not counting the equity in my house in that, although I do plan to sell the house & move, dropping a big chunk of my equity into investments. I guess I'm budgeting for FatFIRE, but I probably won't actually spend a lot more than I do now.
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Old 03-09-2021, 08:20 PM   #57
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Theres Lean Fire, Fire, Fat Fire and Hell Fire.
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Old 03-10-2021, 01:01 AM   #58
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Bare bones, well guess that's in the eye of the beholder, and my eye tells me this is pretty arrogant. You couldn't pay me enough to live in one of the most expensive cities in the world.

Each person has their ideals, and his list isn't for everyone. But his example budgets are not off, given his definition. Each person has their own definition, but even with people with different priorities I bet there is a more desirable (and more expensive) version of that priority.


Anyways, to the OP, I can't comment as I've stuck in OMY and we're jetting past FatFire to MO FIRE. But in many areas, 100K isn't even FIRE, depending on a person's circumstances. Health care takes a big chunk of that.
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Old 03-10-2021, 03:40 AM   #59
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I think the point of Fat FIRE is you CAN live virtually anywhere, not an amount higher relative to your expenses. Whether you want to is moot. I’m with the “I don’t see 100k (in the US) as Fat fire, more like $150k” camp. Isn’t it like 15% of US households make $100k and 5% make $165k? Certainly the top 5 has to be considered VERYFat, if not SLIGHTLY Obese. Top 15%? Solid FIRE for sure, but FAT?
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Old 03-10-2021, 04:05 AM   #60
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I think the point of Fat FIRE is you CAN live virtually anywhere, not an amount higher relative to your expenses. Whether you want to is moot. Iím with the ďI donít see 100k (in the US) as Fat fire, more like $150kĒ camp. Isnít it like 15% of US households make $100k and 5% make $165k? Certainly the top 5 has to be considered VERYFat, if not SLIGHTLY Obese. Top 15%? Solid FIRE for sure, but FAT?
This got me thinking. I would take 100K/yr living where I live (Chesapeake Bay) before I would take 200K/yr in say San Fran. But, I guess if I had 200K/yr in San Fran I could always move to Chesapeake Bay area. I have buyers remorse with almost every purchase so doubling my yearly spend would not make me feel any better.
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