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Old 03-20-2020, 07:18 PM   #21
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For us, this is a pretty big deal. Late in 2019, we did our first "large" Roth conversion, to the top of the 22% bracket. Previously we converted only to the top of the 12% bracket. All of our 2019 quarterly estimated payments (including 1/15/20) were based on the safe harbor rule (2018 actual tax divided by 4). So we owe a very large amount with our 2019 return. I will have to sell some stock to make that payment. So I'm hoping that stocks will recover some by 7/15.

However, we're also planning to make the same "large" Roth conversion this year... and probably early in the year while stocks are depressed. So that conversion will also drive a large estimated payment, which is now delayed 90 days and potentially to 10/15 based on what I'm reading. Overall, it's some welcome news in this otherwise unsettling time.
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Old 03-20-2020, 07:28 PM   #22
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I haven't seen anywhere if this delay in the filing date also allows a delay to 15 Jul to make an IRA/T-IRA contribution for 2019. That might be handy for some folks.
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Old 03-21-2020, 03:00 AM   #23
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I haven't seen anywhere if this delay in the filing date also allows a delay to 15 Jul to make an IRA/T-IRA contribution for 2019. That might be handy for some folks.
Fair question. And maybe I’m not current but they extended the payment deadline, not the filing deadline?
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Originally Posted by IRS 3/18/20
Income tax payment deadlines for individual returns, with a due date of April 15, 2020, are being automatically extended until July 15, 2020, for up to $1 million of their 2019 tax due. The filing deadline for tax returns remains April 15, 2020. The IRS urges taxpayers who are owed a refund to file as quickly as possible. For those who can't file by the April 15, 2020 deadline, the IRS reminds individual taxpayers that everyone is eligible to request a six-month extension to file their return.
https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/payment...o-july-15-2020
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Old 03-21-2020, 05:02 AM   #24
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Here is the official IRS notice on the new federal filing due date. This supercedes the notice published last week that only extended the 4/15 federal tax payment due date.

Problem #1: normally, when working with tax software you enter federal tax data, which then flows to the states. If a state filing deadline remains 4/15, then effectively the federal filing due date also remains 4/15 for taxpayers who have to file in such a state.

Problem #2: the notice continues to only talk about the 2020 estimated tax payment due 4/15. What about the payment due 6/15? Many taxpayers utilize the safe harbor approach to making estimated tax payments, and for this it's useful to know their 2019 tax liability. These folks won't be able to make a reasonable 6/15 estimated tax payment if their tax preparer delivers their federal tax return after 6/15.

An amended notice from the IRS can easily fix Problem #2: just state that the 2020 estimated tax payment normally due 6/15 is now also due on 7/15.
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Old 03-21-2020, 05:34 AM   #25
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Means I can keep the $3k I owe them till July 15th I presume with no penalties?
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Old 03-21-2020, 06:11 AM   #26
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So State tax filings are still due by 04/15, which means one still has to go through the whole Federal calculation process by that time also?
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Old 03-21-2020, 07:01 AM   #27
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So State tax filings are still due by 04/15, which means one still has to go through the whole Federal calculation process by that time also?
We do not have a State Tax.
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Old 03-21-2020, 07:45 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by socca View Post
Here is the official IRS notice on the new federal filing due date. This supercedes the notice published last week that only extended the 4/15 federal tax payment due date.

Problem #1: normally, when working with tax software you enter federal tax data, which then flows to the states. If a state filing deadline remains 4/15, then effectively the federal filing due date also remains 4/15 for taxpayers who have to file in such a state.

Problem #2: the notice continues to only talk about the 2020 estimated tax payment due 4/15. What about the payment due 6/15? Many taxpayers utilize the safe harbor approach to making estimated tax payments, and for this it's useful to know their 2019 tax liability. These folks won't be able to make a reasonable 6/15 estimated tax payment if their tax preparer delivers their federal tax return after 6/15.

An amended notice from the IRS can easily fix Problem #2: just state that the 2020 estimated tax payment normally due 6/15 is now also due on 7/15.
Everything I’ve read says it applies only for the first quarter estimated taxes normally due on 4/15, and no mention whatsoever of the second quarter normally due 6/15.

So I take it that it applies to first quarter only. A bit awkward that.

ETA: there is a simultaneous Senate bill extending estimated taxes to 10/15, so if passed that would address anything past the first quarter.
Quote:
The Senate’s $1 trillion economic relief bill includes several measures aimed at tax relief. In addition to pushing the filing deadline back to July 15, the bill would also extend the due date for estimated payments to October 15, 2020, and would treat all estimated payments due through October 15, 2020, as "one installment due on such date,” eliminating the need to write separate checks for the skipped April and July estimated payment dates.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahha.../#6e9e8e5bd34d

Obviously Forbes doesn’t know when estimated taxes are due - April, June, and September, but whatever.
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Old 03-21-2020, 07:52 AM   #29
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So State tax filings are still due by 04/15, which means one still has to go through the whole Federal calculation process by that time also?
As of 3/18, your IRS filing is due on 4/15 anyway. Only federal payment is postponed, not filing. See post #23 above unless there’s newer guidance I haven’t seen.
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Old 03-21-2020, 07:54 AM   #30
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As of 3/18, your IRS filing is due on 4/15 anyway. Only federal payment is postponed, not filing. See post #23 above unless there’s newer guidance I haven’t seen.
This has changed ....we move at light speed now..
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Old 03-21-2020, 07:56 AM   #31
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Everything I’ve read says it applies only for the first quarter estimated taxes normally due on 4/15, and no mention whatsoever of the second quarter normally due 6/15.

So I take it that it applies to first quarter only. A bit awkward that.
Just wait a couple days...or maybe only an hour..
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Old 03-21-2020, 08:13 AM   #32
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We do not have a State Tax.
I know that SWR. I was speaking for my parents who live in Jersey.
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Old 03-21-2020, 08:15 AM   #33
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As of 3/18, your IRS filing is due on 4/15 anyway. Only federal payment is postponed, not filing. See post #23 above unless there’s newer guidance I haven’t seen.
Appears to be newer guidance on post#24.
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Old 03-21-2020, 08:17 AM   #34
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This has changed ....we move at light speed now..
I couldn’t find that yesterday, but it appears you’re right as of this morning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WSJ 3/21
The Internal Revenue Service has extended the deadline for filing individual tax returns for 2019 to July 15 from April 15 in response to the coronavirus pandemic. The change came just two days after the agency extended the tax-payment deadline to July 15.
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Old 03-21-2020, 08:23 AM   #35
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So State tax filings are still due by 04/15, which means one still has to go through the whole Federal calculation process by that time also?
It depends on your state. Some states have also moved their filing and payment deadlines. Other states have tax forms that don't depend on the federal 1040.

Here's a list of changes from the American Institute of CPAs: https://www.aicpa.org/content/dam/ai...ing-relief.pdf
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Old 03-21-2020, 08:29 AM   #36
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Appears to be newer guidance on post#24.
yes......affects filing of tax returns, payments due w/ tax return, and estimated taxes all originally due 4/15 now extended to 7/15.........no mention of Q2 est tax .

"The relief provided in this section III is available solely with respect to Federal
income tax payments (including payments of tax on self-employment income) and Federal income tax returns due on April 15, 2020, in respect of an Affected Taxpayer’s2019 taxable year, and Federal estimated income tax payments (including payments of tax on self-employment income) due on April 15, 2020, for an Affected Taxpayer’s 2020 taxable year."
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Old 03-21-2020, 09:17 AM   #37
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It depends on your state. Some states have also moved their filing and payment deadlines. Other states have tax forms that don't depend on the federal 1040.

Here's a list of changes from the American Institute of CPAs: https://www.aicpa.org/content/dam/ai...ing-relief.pdf
This is quite helpful. Thanks.
For New Jersey on the additional information last few lines, it states that effectively the deadline is pushed to coincide with the Federal guidelines provided it is not later than June 30th.

I assume this means that the New Jersey state deadline is June 30th and NOT that it means that the deadline is not moved out since the federal deadline is past June 30th.

Is this the correct interpretation?
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Old 03-21-2020, 09:25 AM   #38
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As of 3/18, your IRS filing is due on 4/15 anyway. Only federal payment is postponed, not filing. See post #23 above unless there’s newer guidance I haven’t seen.
There is indeed newer guidance and it is linked above.
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Old 03-21-2020, 09:29 AM   #39
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yes......affects filing of tax returns, payments due w/ tax return, and estimated taxes all originally due 4/15 now extended to 7/15
Much larger change in estimated taxes in circulating Senate bill (no estimated taxes until October) but not passed yet. That’s the wrinkle I’m curious about.
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Old 03-21-2020, 09:30 AM   #40
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Just wait a couple days...or maybe only an hour..
I very quickly updated my post to link to the article about the Senate bill that could delay 2020 estimated tax payments until Oct 15, 2020 - so you would pay first 3 quarters all at once.

Of course, that bill still has to pass....
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