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Old 01-05-2018, 02:30 PM   #21
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I think the foreign tax credit may no longer be valid because of the new tax bill?
Source please?
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Old 01-05-2018, 03:35 PM   #22
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0.3% for managed money assuming decent returns with good stop losses in place, is a bargain in my opinion. If they made 10%+ last year and loss less than 10% in 2008, smile all the way to the bank.

When talking big money small market fluctuations can keep you up at night 5% swing is $150K! Which can and does happen frequently.
There is no such thing as a "good stop loss".

I'm a never-say-never guy, and I say never use a stop loss. Lots of people have got hurt with those. You end up selling low and buying high, or you get taken out on a blip (remember the 'flash crash'?). A 10% stop loss doesn't protect you if a stock drops 50% overnight or the w/e when it's not trading (and that is often when the worst news comes out, to protect people). If trading opens 50% down, you get sold.

For some rare cases where downside protection might make sense, buy a put. Never use a stop loss.

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Old 01-05-2018, 04:57 PM   #23
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Tried digging into my own question.
My average expense ratio is 0.16% (according to Personal Capital)
and 2017 was +27.83%
2008 was -12.95% (as of today 70/30 AA)
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Old 01-05-2018, 06:39 PM   #24
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I became a PAS client in 2014. No clue what 2008’s performance would have been. I do know that they do shifts due to economic climate. They ask us what our risk tolerance is on a 1-10 scale - we have chosen 5. (If it was just me, I’d say 6, DW would say 4.) This affects what kind of investments they select. Also the withdrawal rate affects this.

Fidelity has an “RPM” score of how it thinks our money would last in an “underperforming” market. Our score pegs the meter at 150 - it doesn’t go higher.
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Old 01-05-2018, 06:42 PM   #25
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Fidelity has an “RPM”
Where on Fidelity website this can be found ?
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Old 01-05-2018, 07:08 PM   #26
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There is no such thing as a "good stop loss".

[/B]

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Maybe a better way to have said it would be good down market management strategy. Alternatively sector rotation strategy. I'm extremely fearful of asset base erosion, through a buy and ride type of investing.

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I became a PAS client in 2014. No clue what 2008’s performance would have been. I do know that they do shifts due to economic climate. They ask us what our risk tolerance is on a 1-10 scale - we have chosen 5. (If it was just me, I’d say 6, DW would say 4.) This affects what kind of investments they select. Also the withdrawal rate affects this.

Fidelity has an “RPM” score of how it thinks our money would last in an “underperforming” market. Our score pegs the meter at 150 - it doesn’t go higher.
I've heard many good things about fidelity PAS, from this board and another Uncle, who said he did fantastic last year. He has been using them for years, and can't remember a down year, and said he was like an 8 or something to that effect. Basically hands off, and collect checks, or watch the balance grow. Spoke with his Adviser, who told me if I couldn't work with him, but would need to work through the local office, and I could expect to be put in the same positions given the same risk tolerance answers.

It is on my list to explore further this year. Last year I bought into three managed positions in July Thomas Partners +10.7% & Robo adviser +7.5% through Charles Schwab, along with SCHD +15%. Even my dart board beat the "wealth manager" I'm overseeing for a sick relative, which is why I made bold move to cash.

The down side as I see it for managed money is the constant churn, and large % gain and loss on really small positions. Too many positions to follow, and often you see positions that you don't agree with from a broad economic picture perspective.
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Old 01-05-2018, 07:09 PM   #27
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Where on Fidelity website this can be found ?
Looks like they've changed the name of it - it's now "Your Retirement Score". It shows for me on the main page of my account, but you can start at https://www.fidelity.com/calculators...g-and-guidance
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Old 01-05-2018, 08:35 PM   #28
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I became a PAS client in 2014. ... They ask us what our risk tolerance is on a 1-10 scale - we have chosen 5. (If it was just me, I’d say 6, DW would say 4.) This affects what kind of investments they select. ...
Now I'm curious, do they really just ask you to pick a number from 0-10? That is so subjective, and no reference point.

I think a more meaningful approach would be to show you historic results with different AA. Then you could see that aggressive generally shows high returns over time, with wide swings, while conservative means lower returns with smaller swings. But what does "5" mean?


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Maybe a better way to have said it would be good down market management strategy. Alternatively sector rotation strategy. I'm extremely fearful of asset base erosion, through a buy and ride type of investing. ....
And I'm extremely fearful of asset base erosion, through a market timing/sector type of investing.

That, and the numerous studies showing that few active investors actually outperform the market over time.

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Old 01-05-2018, 10:26 PM   #29
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0.3% doesn't seem too bad to me either, as there can be value in the expertise. DH helped MIL with finances when FIL passed away. They were paying something like 1.6% thru Wells Fargo Brokerage (referred by a friend!). It seemed as though VG was very helpful in transitioning to VG (maybe "in kind" investments or something like that?). Not exactly sure how it all worked as DH handled it.
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:26 AM   #30
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OP - perhaps you want to tackle this task in stages, first transferring the IRA's as that should be simple and tax free even if some holdings "are special" and cannot transfer and need to be cashed out.
Then you can get the IRA's simplified from however many dozen stocks and funds they are in to a reasonable number.

This alone will result in some savings of fees.

I have no advice on the trust and look forward to hearing what happens.
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:26 AM   #31
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The PAS from Fido is charging .9% (less than 1%) to manage my DH's ira worth 520k. I thought I was all that since I managed my own Acct worth just over 215k. Fido pointed out that all of my mutual funds cost varying amounts (expenses for each fund). The PAS doesn't have any fees besides the
.9% since they are institutional investments. The people that trade them do this for a living all day long. My husband's account has grown substantially since he started this. He's a "7" on the risk scale. I'm more conservative and I've done well, but typically he "makes" 3 times what I do on a given day.

I thought I wasn't paying much but if my average expenses is, say, .6%, I'm pretty close to paying .9 to have experts do this. It's fun to watch what they buy and sell.
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Old 01-06-2018, 09:17 AM   #32
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I looked at PAS maybe ten years ago. It was very expensive! When added together with the fund fees I think it was ~2% fees.

It's probably changed since then.

Fidelity has been pushing Wealth Advisor Solutions to me recently. They were quoting .45% to build a bond ladder. I've told them where they could stuff their WAS guys. Look very hard at the costs and if these funds are proprietary.
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Old 01-06-2018, 09:48 AM   #33
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... The PAS doesn't have any fees besides the .9% since they are institutional investments. The people that trade them do this for a living all day long. ...

I thought I wasn't paying much but if my average expenses is, say, .6%, I'm pretty close to paying .9 to have experts do this. It's fun to watch what they buy and sell.
But broad index funds that can do this (BND, VTI for example) have ERs of only 0.05% and 0.04%.

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... The people that trade them do this for a living all day long. ...
And the studies show that despite that (or because of that!), they will probably not do better than those index funds.

On a $1M portfolio, the difference between 0.9% and .045% (50-50 blend BND/VTI) is $9,000 - $450 = $8,550, every year. On a $250K portfolio, still a large annual charge of $2,137.50.


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It's fun to watch what they buy and sell.
And under perform (also consider taxes if this is a taxable account)? I can have a lot of fun for $2K or more

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Old 01-06-2018, 11:09 AM   #34
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When they say they trade to made it tax-advantaged, they're harvesting losses but in doing so, wouldn't they be holding down gains?

Plus the frequency of transactions tends to suppress gains from what they could be overall?

In an up market, it might have been better to hold instead of sell and buy, sell and buy, etc.
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Old 01-06-2018, 11:34 AM   #35
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When they say they trade to made it tax-advantaged, they're harvesting losses but in doing so, wouldn't they be holding down gains?

Plus the frequency of transactions tends to suppress gains from what they could be overall?

In an up market, it might have been better to hold instead of sell and buy, sell and buy, etc.
The transaction costs themselves are probably very small (but not the 0.9% overall).

I don't think tax loss harvesting holds down gains, it just keep realized gains down. But then those unrealized gains keep piling up. Depending upon your situation, you might be better taking the gains now. Like if pension/SS/RMDs get you in a higher tax bracket in the future.

I wonder if they analyze it that far out, or just proclaim they saved you in taxes this year, with the harvesting?

I should be in the bracket that allows for zero cap gains for a few years, so I definitely want to take gains now - tax-loss harvesting would negate that.

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Old 01-07-2018, 12:14 PM   #36
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2017 wasn't much of a year for harvesting losses.

PAS fees are on a sliding scale, depending on assets managed.
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Old 01-07-2018, 06:56 PM   #37
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But broad index funds that can do this (BND, VTI for example) have ERs of only 0.05% and 0.04%.

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So just for kicks I checked out the value of BND Which is so cheap to buy and hold. If you purchased 5 years ago @ $83.73 per share it would be worth $81.26 today. For a loss of -2.9% Only -2.1% if you include coupons.. If you bought in 2015 you would have fared better with a +.9% Total return.

The VTI did pretty good at a doubling of the money over a 10 year period. But ouch the -36.97% in 2008.

No easy way is there.
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Old 01-07-2018, 07:40 PM   #38
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So just for kicks I checked out the value of BND Which is so cheap to buy and hold. If you purchased 5 years ago @ $83.73 per share it would be worth $81.26 today. For a loss of -2.9% Only -2.1% if you include coupons.. If you bought in 2015 you would have fared better with a +.9% Total return. ...
Check those figures, they make no sense to me.

BND is paying a div of ~ 2.5% (maybe a bit less in previous years), so if the NAV was -2.9%, the total return would be much higher than -2.1%, and two different total return calculators showed BND to be > 9% positive for the past 5 year period.

But OK, in a rising interest rate environment, a total bond fund has not done well. It's there to provide some stability and rebalancing against the more volatile equity portion. Of course, it would be nice for its NAV to be up as well, but we don't always get what we want.


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...
The VTI did pretty good at a doubling of the money over a 10 year period. But ouch the -36.97% in 2008. ....
See above. And per my sources, it doubled in just 5 years, and went up by 2.4x in 10 years (including the nasty, nasty 2008 plunge). Are you including divs? They are money too.

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... No easy way is there.
Well, a 60/40 blend, not even rebalancing gave a 1.96x increase over 10 years (including the nasty, nasty 2008 plunge). That's about as easy as it gets.

And it sure doesn't seem to be easy for the average Joe/Joan to find a manager with a track record that is better than that.

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Old 01-07-2018, 07:52 PM   #39
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<snip>

And it sure doesn't seem to be easy for the average Joe/Joan to find a manager with a track record that is better than that.

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#19 http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...ml#post1992505
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Old 01-07-2018, 08:23 PM   #40
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That was a big for me. OK, now I see #19 is:

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19. If you have a strong belief, savor it. But don’t waste your time trying to convince others. They will make their own choices no matter what you tell them, and it will only bring you frustration. Live your faith and set an example. Live true to your beliefs and let that memory sway them.
It's a discussion - sharing, comparing information. It's how people learn. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I recall now, you just don't like these discussions. So why not just not partake in them?

You can choose or 'like' to have someone manage your investments (an FA, or a manged fund) - no skin off my nose. I don't think that changes the evidence that it sure doesn't seem to be easy for the average Joe/Joan to find a manager with a track record that is better than that. So why that response from you?

That's what the evidence says. And evidence gets discussed when another poster is comparing returns. If you don't want to use evidence, that's your business. I won't try to convince you otherwise. But my exchanges on this forum will be evidence based, when it applies.


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