|
|
Financial Separation Question
05-22-2022, 04:01 PM
|
#1
|
gone traveling
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 2
|
Financial Separation Question
Hey everyone. I recently broke up with my girlfriend of seven years, and had a question regarding our financial separation.
I came into the relationship with not much money, whereas she was more established with a house that earned rental income. We truly thought we were going to be together forever, and looked at out finances as one big pot that supported both of us.
As the years went on, we ended up getting into a big financial hole (as we both struggled to earn income as we transitioned careers). To help support us during this time, she ended up selling her home and walked away with a considerable surplus of around $250k. To help balance the financial disparity between us (as again I didn’t have much money), she ended up paying most of our bills in about a 2 year stretch from the pot of money she earned from her house sale, whereas I saved and invested all the money I earned during this period (I had almost around $50k saved/invested at the end of those 2 years).
Fast forward to today. As was the case for many couples, the pandemic really affected us negatively (along with a few other factors). We have decided to separate just a few months ago. She has now made it clear that I owe her the money that I was saving during the time of our relationship. I don’t fully feel this is right to rewind the clock and hit an undo button on the choices we made at the time.
Just wanted to get everyone’s opinions on this. How would you proceed if you were me?
|
|
|
|
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!
Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!
|
05-22-2022, 04:04 PM
|
#2
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Reading, MA
Posts: 1,795
|
This is a tricky topic...
|
|
|
05-22-2022, 04:09 PM
|
#3
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 10,931
|
With the info you provided it sounds to me like you may owe her something... But that's my opinion based on the info provided and I'm sure I don't have all the details... Maybe ask yourself "where would you be financially" if you would have been by yourself for the past seven years. (Or maybe not)
__________________
20's "something" mind, trapped in a 70's "something" body
|
|
|
05-22-2022, 04:11 PM
|
#4
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,958
|
Before I comment what is your position. You freely admit the SO paid the bills for 2 years. How much did she spend
|
|
|
05-22-2022, 04:13 PM
|
#5
|
gone traveling
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 2
|
She was paying for all our bills during this time. Again, we thought we were going to be together forever and our mentality was that we were just balancing out the funds between us. Looking back at this now, I admit this does not look good on my end.
I am absolutely going to pay her back, it's just a matter of how much.
|
|
|
05-22-2022, 04:18 PM
|
#6
|
Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 620
|
That's a tough one. Do you feel that you owe her anything, based upon her contributions? I would think about that and then have a discussion with her about your rationale and then listen to what she has to say.
|
|
|
05-22-2022, 04:23 PM
|
#7
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Undisclosed
Posts: 1,239
|
My gut feeling is that if you earned 50% of the total income over the period, you should reimburse her 50% of the expenses over the period.
|
|
|
05-22-2022, 04:36 PM
|
#8
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,227
|
If you two can't agree I'd probably find a divorce mediator who hopefully would just charge you to look at the facts and viewpoints from each of you and make a decision in a couple of hours. Any longer and it cuts too deeply into the money and neither of you will be happy.
Do it only if you both agree you will accept the mediator's ruling.
Only hearing a little info from one side of the story with some conflicts (one big pot for finances but a separate pot for your savings?) I wouldn't try to answer this. It's assuring to read that you acknowledge that you are willing to pay something back. I've heard a couple of somewhat similar stories where nothing was paid back as far as I know. My friends were on the other side, and I wasn't asked for advice so I didn't offer any. One was from years earlier anyway.
|
|
|
05-22-2022, 04:42 PM
|
#9
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,551
|
To be perfectly fair, I'd try to determine the joint expenses over the 2-year period (excluding any big ticket items she bought herself, or that you bought, which, IMHO, you should pay full value for), and pay her back your half of the expenses, up to what you saved ($50K). If half of those joint expenses exceed that amount, I'd consider the living arrangement and any difference water under the bridge. IMHO, if she allowed you to save while she covered expenses, then the assumption was that the savings were joint.
The other fair way to go about it would be to determine your and her 'separate' property, and add in gains and losses, to the end of the relationship, and split the debt and gains as you would if you had been married (in most states).
Just my 2 cents.
__________________
Balance in everything.
|
|
|
05-22-2022, 05:13 PM
|
#10
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Weatherford, Texas
Posts: 1,213
|
I would ask her to give you a number of what she thinks you owe her and if I could and if it was reasonable I would give it to her.
__________________
Life is good. Then you die.
|
|
|
05-22-2022, 06:12 PM
|
#11
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL & Vermont
Posts: 36,366
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by HI Bill
To be perfectly fair, I'd try to determine the joint expenses over the 2-year period (excluding any big ticket items she bought herself, or that you bought, which, IMHO, you should pay full value for), and pay her back your half of the expenses, up to what you saved ($50K). If half of those joint expenses exceed that amount, I'd consider the living arrangement and any difference water under the bridge. ...
|
That is just what I was thinking as I read the OP. The OPs share of the various expenses that DGF paid for over that 2-year period that were shared expenses like rent, food, utilities, entertainment, etc... as if they had shared those costs 50/50.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Retired Jan 2012 at age 56
|
|
|
05-22-2022, 06:20 PM
|
#12
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: in transit
Posts: 318
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWizard
This is a tricky topic...
|
Tricky is an understatement. Honestly, unless any of us hears the other side of this story it is near impossible to give advice. Lawyers would have a field day on this thread and none of us is qualified to post with any degree of certainty.
__________________
A persons wealth is measured by what they can afford to do without.
|
|
|
05-22-2022, 06:58 PM
|
#13
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 56
|
Shoe, other foot, how much would you want her to pay you?
|
|
|
05-22-2022, 07:01 PM
|
#14
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 26,889
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunningBum
...Only hearing a little info from one side of the story with some conflicts (one big pot for finances but a separate pot for your savings?) ....
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franklin
Tricky is an understatement. Honestly, unless any of us hears the other side of this story it is near impossible to give advice. Lawyers would have a field day on this thread and none of us is qualified to post with any degree of certainty.
|
Yes, but normally, when we hear one side of the story, it sounds one sided.
OP is admitting he owes something, admitting she had the house before their involvement, and that she paid the bills while he saved.
But that one really hit me, as RunnngBum said - "(one big pot for finances but a separate pot for your savings?) " Why the heck was OP putting money into savings while she was paying all the bills? If my daughter told me she was handling a relationship that way, we'd have a long talk.
So OK, if OP viewed this as a long term thing (what's ours is ours), then I guess I could kinda see it, still wacky though.
So my view is, you at least owe her half the expenses during that time, plus whatever gains you made with that savings - you wouldn't have those gains if you were using the money to pay your share of the bills. She should get her share of the gains.
Probably more, since you got to live in the house that she put a down payment on, etc. You don't get to share in any gains she had in the house, as she brought that to the relationship.
-ERD50
|
|
|
05-22-2022, 07:10 PM
|
#15
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: North
Posts: 4,043
|
DH and I were here once or twice. At first, she earned more than me, and she paid most if not all of the bills for a few years. Then I started earning more than her and we started doing more of an equal financial partnership. Now, for about the past 10 years I have earned much more than her. She often feels uneven about her financial contributions but she contributes more beyond just finances that is hard to sum up in a dollar term. I sometimes find myself criticizing her lack of income, but then we make up and the truth comes out and I really do appreciate all that she brings to the table beyond just an income. We sometimes need to remind each other of our vows... for richer or poorer, in sickness and health, etc. We make a great team and have a great partnership but it seems I will always make significantly more than her. The therapist reminds me there was a time and could be another time...but probably not. She really was the lightning rod behind pushing me to better my financial position in life and seek out better opportunities, I do owe her some credit for that.
In your situation, I would ask her what her number is, and come up with your number and make it as fair as possible.
I had a buddy who went through something similar, recently where his GF covered lots of expenses and bought lots of things for the household. When she left, she took all the things, he sent her and her girlfriends on a nice vacation, and they parted ways more amicably. Its never going to be even down the middle, life just rarely works that way. Best of luck!
__________________
Time > $$$ ~ 100% equities ~ FIRE @2031
|
|
|
05-22-2022, 07:35 PM
|
#16
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,884
|
Legally, you owe her nothing.
Morally...well, that's up to you.
|
|
|
05-22-2022, 08:29 PM
|
#17
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,500
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by warrior.tony
Just wanted to get everyone’s opinions on this. How would you proceed if you were me?
|
I think the fair division of money on separation is something for you and her to work out. I don't think anybody here has any way of knowing what would be fair or not.
But I do have an opinion on how to proceed. Eventually you will find someone else, and begin a new relationship. If possible, try not to mix your money. Keep your money and her money and financial obligations separate.
Money is the source of so many relationship arguments. Frank and I have kept our money separate since we first met. We found that we have little to argue about since we don't spend each other's money.
(Frank is sitting here, nodding his head, and says, "yes, exactly".)
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
|
|
|
05-22-2022, 08:58 PM
|
#18
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 271
|
Curious if money was one of the things that drove the relationship to this point
|
|
|
05-23-2022, 12:11 AM
|
#19
|
Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: gypsy traveller
Posts: 683
|
Sorry that you are going through this. Breakups are never easy.
I agree with you should do what would you feel would be fair if the shoe were on the other foot.
If that doesn't work,
I agree with find a someone to help mediate this issue assuming you both agree to follow the mediator's decision.
I also acknowledge that there is a great deal of missing data. Car payments, medical payments, is/was one of you in school during this time, etc.
FWIW, You don't say if the last 2 years were the 2 years that both of you spent most of the $250k or if it was an earlier 2 year period. I suppose that doesn't matter. In those 2 years together you both spent $250k. At first blush your half of the expenses was $125k for 2 years. And you were making $25k/year (if you "saved and invested all the money I earned during this period"). At second blush, assuming together you lived in a 1 bedroom place, and she would have needed to pay rent, utilities, etc. on the place if she lived there alone anyway, the additional cost of having you there would not have been 50%. Maybe only 20%.
In either case, with the data I have, I can see her point that you should give her the $50k.
|
|
|
05-23-2022, 03:58 AM
|
#20
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,047
|
For me it's an ethical issue, which I believe is not subjective. One is either ethical in their relations with others or not, and being ethical is too valuable to trade away for money.
But, that said, one thing to try: put yourself in her shoes and explore how you would feel in this situation, if it were you who paid all the expenses for those two years while your partner saved their salary.
-BB
__________________
FIREd, April 1, 2015. My Retirement Benefits Package includes: 6 months vacation, twice a year.
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Threads
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
» Quick Links
|
|
|