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Old 05-14-2019, 07:13 AM   #61
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I am with corn.

I hope it works out for OP, but he seems to be confusing assets with consumption/lifestyle (see quote about unlike vintage cars, you can't drive mutual funds on a sunny day).



If you can't comprehend vintage cars as assets, you probably never will. Whether I drive it or not, and the end of the day it's all still just math.


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Probably much many more in our culture view things this way and I am the oddball.

I guess following the likes of The Millionaire Next Door, has me on a heightened awareness of this sort of thing.

We all have different values/motivations. We could all look at OP's results 10 years down the line and all come up with very different conclusions on whether it was a good deal or not.

True. Read that book too BTW.
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:07 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gauss View Post
I am with corn.

I hope it works out for OP, but he seems to be confusing assets with consumption/lifestyle (see quote about unlike vintage cars, you can't drive mutual funds on a sunny day).

Probably many more in our culture view things this way and I am the oddball.

I guess following the likes of The Millionaire Next Door, has me on a heightened awareness for this sort of thing.

We all have different values/motivations. We could all look at OP's results 10 years down the line and all come up with very different conclusions on whether it was a good deal or not.

OP -- In all seriousness, thank you for sharing and not getting outwardly annoyed with the comments. I do find it interesting. It helps me to expand my thinking and understand, at a deeper level, the thinking of others.


-gauss
"I, personally, would not have eaten the marshmallow"
I'm kind of curious about the OP's purpose in asking the original question. He had to be pretty certain most of the answers would be on the "don't do it" side.

Do either corn or I know if he can actually afford this house? No we don't, because he hasn't shared any numbers, which is his right.

The dithering about the mortgage and the amount of the down payment is nothing in the grand scheme of can I actually afford this place. Comparing a vintage car to a house, is apples to oranges. In one post he says it's the forever home and then he says it could be the forever home and implies it might be a unique opportunity.

Basically they cannot afford two house payments on his DW's salary. They don't have extra cash to make the down payment he is comfortable with. His DW has to work at least 3 more years to even make this possible. He wants to raid money set aside for a 40 year retirement but his biggest concern is not wanting to pay extra taxes on it. There is no mention of the DW still putting money into her 401K, if she is would she just put in the match amount perhaps freeing up some money.

Right now to me it looks like a case of "one more year" for the OP would have made this a bit easier but he pulled the plug at 54. Now it's all about some hard choices. Good Luck
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:15 AM   #63
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If you have significant non retirement(non tax deferred) accounts a margin type loan has no closing costs- and would work short term. Rates are usually higher than a mortgage but it is far easier to obtain. (can usually margin 50% of an account balance). May sure you have enough in account not to have it called if the market turns south.
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:46 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by ivinsfan
I'm kind of curious about the OP's purpose in asking the original question. He had to be pretty certain most of the answers would be on the "don't do it" side.

I wasn't. At all. Nor does that really matter. At the end of the day I go by my gut. That being said, again, I got some great insight here that helped guide my decision, numbers. Thank you, it's been fun. And while I am not interested in trying to convince anyone here that this is a good or bad idea, to put it in overall $$ perspective the 2nd home cost represents just under 19% of portfolio and just under 14% of NW. The 2nd mortgage amount will be 11.3%/8.35% I am comfortable with being able to "afford" that.



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OP -- In all seriousness, thank you for sharing and not getting outwardly annoyed with the comments. I do find it interesting. It helps me to expand my thinking and understand, at a deeper level, the thinking of others.
No problem at all. Not my first rodeo on forums by any means. Always some people with stronger opinions than others (myself included). We all have different risk/reward tolerances. Yes, this is going to be a leap, but after week of trying to convince myself that it is a bad idea, and/or that there aren't "outs".... and failing, we are moving ahead. Just got off the phone with an attorney... time for lunch yet??
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:46 AM   #65
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To answer the actual question, I would get a mortgage with 20% down and a 5/1 ARM. I did that just this year when I moved for my job. I haven't sold my current house yet and bought a new house with a 20% down 5/1 ARM. I could have raided my taxable and Roth accounts to put a lot more down, but that did not make sense to me.

As it sits right now, we have a contract to sell our old house and it should close in June. We also have a lot of stock vesting soon. Between the house proceeds and the stock vesting, we should have enough to pay off our current mortgage. Maybe we will, maybe we won't. A lot could change between now and August. Having a mortgage @ 2.7% net (37% marginal tax rate) and a boatload of cash in FZDXX earning 2.3% seems like a great position to be in vs. having a small mortgage and strapped for cash.

You should do the same. Keep all of your retirement savings intact. Get the biggest mortgage you can. When everything settles down, re-evaluate. Worst case is you're out a few grand in arbitrage. But if the SHTF, you have a lot of options with a lot of cash.
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:55 AM   #66
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Great read. Thanks for sharing and updating.
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:59 AM   #67
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Great read. Thanks for sharing and updating.

Thanks, I hope I will be updating with some pics in mid July.


We are getting a 7/1 ARM BTW. 3.75% IR.
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:37 AM   #68
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Don't forget the pics, we're all curious now.

Good Luck the purchase and closing go smoothly...
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Old 07-15-2019, 06:37 PM   #69
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Closing tomorrow AM.
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Old 07-15-2019, 06:48 PM   #70
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It looks like the home needs a boatdock if it does not have one.

And then, a boat for the boatdock.
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Old 07-16-2019, 04:59 AM   #71
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^^^ And so it starts....
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:01 PM   #72
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I'd caution on borrowing and buying a property first then try to sell your existing property later and counting on that proceeds to pay back the loan on the first purchase, only do that if you can afford to carry both properties. Although housing market had been going crazy for several years, there is visible softening since last summer in many markets. I personally know someone purchased a home with short-term loan expecting to pay it back quickly after the old home is sold, because the market was so hot a year ago. Guess what, the old home has been on the market nearly 3 months now and the price has been cut by more than $100K, and still no offer.
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Old 07-17-2019, 01:07 PM   #73
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Closing tomorrow AM.
Is the Helicopter needed to get there?
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Old 07-18-2019, 08:30 AM   #74
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Closing tomorrow AM.

Wow. That's beautiful. Where is it located?
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Old 10-06-2019, 07:26 PM   #75
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Is the Helicopter needed to get there?

LOL, no. A pleasant, never any traffic hour and 5 minute drive from our primary home. It is located on Harvey lake in Northwood NH.

A few months in now, and I am really enjoying the place, BUT, still on the fence about it being a suitable long term, warm season home after DW retires. Nonetheless, I am still confident that it was sound investment and we could sell it and get (at least) our investment back if we decide it is not for us.


I have been spending about half my days there with our two dogs. We hike at the state park next door almost every day after lunch. I built a woodshop on the main level of the barn that allows me to build things for the property. $25 craigslist table saw, $20 miter saw, etc. Stripped old a partition boards from the barn basement, pressure washed them, let them dry in the sun, and made some tables out of them.


Also, lots of time clearing, pruning and opening up the view on a badly overgrown property. Bought a wood chipper and am slowly clearing woody growth and using the chips for ground cover.



We gave ourselves a $10k cash budget to buy things we needed to make the place usable. About $7k of that is gone now, but we have it set up nicely. We bought all new mattresses and bedding for each room, but beyond that, dirt cheap, or free furnishings found on Craigslist of Facebook Marketplace. It is amazing what you can get for near nothing, especially in rural NH.

I splurged a little bit and bought another tractor just like the one I have at home. Unfortunately a LOT of grass to mow there but a) I never mow it all at once, b) I let it go 3-4 weeks between mowing and c) I don't bag clippings, fertilize, water, weed control, etc. etc. My motto is "if it grows, it mows".


Have found some really interesting artifacts going through that barn a little at a time. Old photos, tools, a junior high diploma from 1966. Nail keg barrels (made a nightstand out of one for one of the bedrooms) The person we bought it from was only there a year (she bought an Inn for sale on the other side of town and is living there). Prior to that it was owned by the Johnson's for God knows how long, and was probably rented in recent years. There is a 91 year old town historian that intend to contact. The Johnsons have a long history in the town, dating back to it's inception.

I spend a lot of time clearing and cleaning out the barn main level and we hosted an "open barn" cookout party in Sept. I have had great fun finding old furnishings to put in there, wiring new lighting, hanging old signs. And then end of the barn facing the lake with a 12 foot wide rolling door is a splendid place for morning coffee, a cold beer and sunsets. The barn is also great fun for my wannabe photographer in me. Even that rug was found in the upper level of the barn.... pressure washed and sun dried.... then put in front of the couch.

That Victorian couch was a Craigslist find and was in the lobby of a well known Inn and Restaurant in Bedford NH for decades. I just had to have it (but probably paid too much for it).



Lastly, the barn sign, M E Johnson. In old listing pics from the previous sale, it was over the barn door on the road end. Sadly, it was gone when we bought the place, or so I thought. One day sitting in my "barn chair" having coffee, I looked at a huge stack of firewood stored inside the barn that I was slowly relocating... ans saw a board roped to the end of the stack with some lettering on it. Lo and behold, there it was. I mounted it inside the barn over a side door as I didn't want it to weather further.

I made the Edison bulb, iron pipe wall sconces myself after finding a pic of them on line.

Anyway, thought I would post some pics in this thread as s follow up ....
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Old 10-06-2019, 07:41 PM   #76
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^^^Nice update.
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Old 10-06-2019, 08:14 PM   #77
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That’s great!
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Old 10-07-2019, 06:11 AM   #78
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.... A few months in now, and I am really enjoying the place, BUT, still on the fence about it being a suitable long term, warm season home after DW retires. ...
... It is amazing what you can get for near nothing, especially in rural NH. ....
The easy solution to the first part is to snowbird for the winter.

I would suggest thinking through the future before investing a lot in upgrades. We tore down and rebuilt our lakeside home and it is very energy efficient... lived here winters and then decided to replace one-car garage with two-car garage with bonus loft.

Fast forward a few years... we got tired of Vermont's long, harsh winters even though we grew up here and now snowbird. Knowing what I know not I probably would have done less... certainly not the insulation and heat in the garage and perhaps less in the house too. No huge regrets though and I'm sure that we'll get everything back when we sell and get to enjoy it in the meantime.... but if I knew then what I know now I might have done things differently.

Rural living is different... it seems we are constantly calling when we are in town to ask... how are we doing on milk and bread?... I need one of those new fangled refrigerators where you can see what is in the fridge from your phone.
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Old 10-07-2019, 07:29 AM   #79
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The long term plan is to snow bird in the Carribean in the winter, but our go to spot there is becoming less and less affordable. But we will see.


The present plan for the lake house is no major upgrades until we decide if it is long term or not. Lots of big stuff we'd like to change, some of probably a good investment too, but we are not letting ourselves do it. Difficult sometimes as a retired engineer in a 120 year old house with no true right angles anywhere!


It is rural, but our base home is rural too (pop 3100) but very close to a good sized city. The lake house is kind of rural everywhere surrounding but I have found in my time there where things are and nothing is more than about a 25min drive.
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:00 PM   #80
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Still having fun with "the farm".... but sliding away just a bit from thinking it is a long term, post-DW retirement home for us. The barn is a blast, but the house has been renovated inside so many times, there is virtually no old home character left. This leads to discussions with DW about knocking it down, leaving the barn, and building a new home closer to the lake.

And then there is this.

In 1994 I bought a 27.6 acre parcel of land about an hour north of where the farm is, from a co-worker simply as in investment. It was (in today's terms) dirt cheap. It is in an undeveloped NH land filing and the taxes on it are $18 annually (as long as I don't put a house on it). Over the years I have explored it corner to corner on my ATV, camped on it a few times. A couple years logging companies started reaching out to me about logging it for $$$. I found one I really liked and we worked a deal for them to take 60% or so of the trees in turn for making me a road that I could drive my truck to the top of the hill. We have 240 ft of vertical on the land, and I had never seen the view from the top until last month. I had high expectations, but it blew me away.









Now thoughts about maybe building a modest home up there, with palladium windows and a big deck with a hottub on it.

Just thoughts.

For now.

I have always said I would love a home with a 30+ mile view. Problem is DW values a home ON a lake more then that view (although she hasn't been up there in person yet since they logged it). Those discussions are just starting... lots to think about.

Pressure is since buying the lakehouse, cash is scarce and probably around 28% of our NW is tied up in equity in these 3 properties. So short term, one will need to be sold....

More on this story as it develops....
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