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Old 06-08-2020, 05:39 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I'll just repeat this, for the sake of those who will be settling our affairs:

If you close out an account, let an insurance contract lapse, or any other sort of ending to anything financial, but you want to hang onto the paperwork for a few years, just in case - clearly label it "ACCOUNT CLOSED and moved to BANK XYZ in 2007", or "THIS INS POLICY NO LONGER IN EFFECT - MAY 2018", or whatever.

I've gone on some wild goose chases settling some affairs, because I didn't know if the account/ins was still active or not. Can take some time, and you may never be satisfied that you really got the right answer. Spend 10 seconds to label it now to save an heir 10 weeks of run-arounds.

-ERD50
+1 great idea.... in addition staple the transmittal for the surrender check to the policy or any confirmation of the account being closed to the last statement.
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Old 06-08-2020, 05:42 AM   #22
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Yes, it is always possible she cashed them in but I can't think of a reason why she would do it. Her prepaid funeral was important to her. She remarked to me more than a few times over the 11 years I knew her (2009 to 2020), that she would be cremated in FL and then sent to PA to be buried and it was already paid for.

She was all there mentally right up to the day she died. She wasn't even hard of hearing so it was very easy to hold a conversation with her. She had been a widow since she was in her early 40's and had always managed her own money. She died with $250,000 to her name which I consider impressive because her husband left her with nothing and she retired at 65.

And, to me, it's just too much of a coincidence the CD disappeared when Wells Fargo was taking over Wachovia.
Yes, from what you wrote it sounds like it may have been lost in the acquisition of Wachovia by Wells Fargo.
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Old 06-08-2020, 06:08 PM   #23
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Contact the PA and/or FL banking commissioner's office and see if they can do anything to help.

File a complaint via this link: https://www.wellsfargo.com/about/cor...nance/contact/



In the financial institution that I used to work at any complaints addressed tot the CEO or President were routed to more senior personnel for special handling.

Alsos, try https://www.missingmoney.com/en/ You can cover different states at one website.
I found the website for the Florida Office of Financial Regulation and there is a link to file a claim. I will call them tomorrow to see if I have standing to file the complaint or if it needs to be her son (and I can do all the work for him). Florida is a consumer rights unfriendly state. Scammers get off with a slap on the wrist here, especially when they make large donations to the Attorney General's re-election campaign. I don't hold out a lot of hope they will hold a large bank's feet to the fire.

I did the missing money website and found nothing. I tried PA, FL, and CA. CA is the headquarters of Wells Fargo. The complaint to the Comptroller of the Currency was mailed Friday so that process is started. I'm not going to bother contacting Wells Fargo again. They're useless. It's going to take an outside organization to get them motivated IMO.
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Old 06-09-2020, 04:54 PM   #24
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Interesting story. My Mom, also was "Wachovia" and now is a Wells Fargo customer.
You mentioned, you have 1099 Int Wachovia. (how do you know the int. was from the Cd?).

You mentioned 2008, Wells took over. The tax statement, would combined 1099/cap gains. You said, no 1099 int.

It appears, the CD was redeemed in 2007? Since it disappeared in 2008.

I would focus my efforts on the year 2007. Something happened that year. Would be great, if you were able to obtain, monthly statements, from Wachovia for the 2007 year. It would show the CD, and when or if it was redeemed.

If no redemption. Then in year 2008, when Well took over, it got lost.

Good luck.
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Old 06-09-2020, 06:14 PM   #25
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I guess that this is an interesting example of keeping up on your finances and having your finances organized and documented.

Similar story recently with DD.... she has about $5k in a HSA from two employers ago... about 5 years and has moved a number of times... anyway the bank administering her HSA remitted it to the state and she is in the process of getting it back from the state. The state concedes that the banks should not have escheated it (which in my mind similarly means that the state shoud not have accepted it). Anyway, it is going to work out but she might have to make a deposit to her new Fidelity HSA from her taxable money to get it in time to treat it as a rollover contribution... luckily it was escheated to the state very recently.
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Old 06-09-2020, 06:18 PM   #26
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Interesting story. My Mom, also was "Wachovia" and now is a Wells Fargo customer.
You mentioned, you have 1099 Int Wachovia. (how do you know the int. was from the Cd?).

You mentioned 2008, Wells took over. The tax statement, would combined 1099/cap gains. You said, no 1099 int.

It appears, the CD was redeemed in 2007? Since it disappeared in 2008.

I would focus my efforts on the year 2007. Something happened that year. Would be great, if you were able to obtain, monthly statements, from Wachovia for the 2007 year. It would show the CD, and when or if it was redeemed.

If no redemption. Then in year 2008, when Well took over, it got lost.

Good luck.
There is a Wachovia 1099-INT for 2008 (as far back as I have her taxes) and 2009. The reason I know the INT refers to the burial CD is because 'BURIAL RESERVE' is right on the 1099-INT. Wells Fargo would have been responsible for the 2010 1099-INT.

I don't have her 2010 taxes to check for a Wells Fargo 1099-INT. Nothing from Wells Fargo in 2011 or beyond. I called the IRS and talked to a human about getting a transcript. Because they are short-staffed and behind, the IRS is only sending out transcripts for recent years for people trying to file their taxes and get their AGI. She said the limit is 10 years so I'm still under the wire. I also called her tax accountant to see if he did her 2010 taxes. I also need to check an older computer to see if I did her 2010 taxes.
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Old 06-09-2020, 06:32 PM   #27
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I spoke to the Florida Office of Financial Regulation today but they can do nothing because Wells Fargo is a nationally chartered bank and they only regulate Florida chartered banks. I wrote a DM last night through Twitter and had a call from someone by mid day today. The gentleman I spoke to also suggested my friend cashed out her burial reserve CD's. No, she didn't!

So, I started going back through some of her papers and found a letter from the funeral home dated June 2015. In that letter (attached), the funeral home guy referenced a recent phone call between him and my friend. He's telling her she needs to contact Fidelity Bank if she wants to determine the current value of her burial reserve account. Fidelity Bank was Wells Fargo by then but why would she be asking about the value of her burial account if she had cashed out the CD's?

To me, this is proof of what I already knew, i.e. she never cashed out the CD's.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Question about burial reserve balance.pdf (157.1 KB, 18 views)
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Old 06-14-2020, 08:06 PM   #28
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I was going through more of my deceased friend's papers and found this note, in her handwriting, on the back of the copy of her pre-paid burial contract,

"Copy of contract. CD @ XXX Funeral Home, value 1/23/2010 = $12,821.89"

The physical copies of the CD certificated were at the Funeral Home but the accounts were at Wachovia/Wells Fargo.

Still waiting to hear for the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency. Her son should be getting a letter from them very soon. The complaint was mailed two weeks ago and they take 5 business days to respond.
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Old 06-14-2020, 08:41 PM   #29
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I'd forget about it. Will be a nightmare of paperwork and frustrations and odds of success close to zero. Sad reality.
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Old 06-14-2020, 09:04 PM   #30
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I'd forget about it. Will be a nightmare of paperwork and frustrations and odds of success close to zero. Sad reality.
Paperwork doesn't bother me at all. I did (and re-did) all the paperwork required to get an Order of Summary Administration for her son to get his mom's Vanguard mutual fund transferred to him without full probate. And it only took a month!

Banks shouldn't be cheating little old ladies out of there money. Can't let the cheats and bullies get their way without at least challenging them.
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Old 06-14-2020, 09:58 PM   #31
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Paperwork doesn't bother me at all. I did (and re-did) all the paperwork required to get an Order of Summary Administration for her son to get his mom's Vanguard mutual fund transferred to him without full probate. And it only took a month!

Banks shouldn't be cheating little old ladies out of there money. Can't let the cheats and bullies get their way without at least challenging them.
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Old 06-14-2020, 10:00 PM   #32
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Paperwork doesn't bother me at all. I did (and re-did) all the paperwork required to get an Order of Summary Administration for her son to get his mom's Vanguard mutual fund transferred to him without full probate. And it only took a month!

Banks shouldn't be cheating little old ladies out of there money. Can't let the cheats and bullies get their way without at least challenging them.
I am pulling for you. Love this story and hope it has a good ending.
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Old 06-14-2020, 11:05 PM   #33
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Paperwork doesn't bother me at all. I did (and re-did) all the paperwork required to get an Order of Summary Administration for her son to get his mom's Vanguard mutual fund transferred to him without full probate. And it only took a month!

Banks shouldn't be cheating little old ladies out of there money. Can't let the cheats and bullies get their way without at least challenging them.
+1
I'm rooting for you !!
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Old 06-15-2020, 09:51 AM   #34
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Any chance she cashed in the CD and used the proceeds to pay for a prepaid funeral? You say she kept telling you her funeral was prepaid. Maybe she did that? Its pretty common these days to have a prepaid funeral.
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Old 06-15-2020, 10:48 AM   #35
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Paperwork doesn't bother me at all. I did (and re-did) all the paperwork required to get an Order of Summary Administration for her son to get his mom's Vanguard mutual fund transferred to him without full probate. And it only took a month!

Banks shouldn't be cheating little old ladies out of there money. Can't let the cheats and bullies get their way without at least challenging them.
+1000!! I'd do the same. The banks are not your friend, ever.
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Old 06-15-2020, 12:04 PM   #36
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Any chance she cashed in the CD and used the proceeds to pay for a prepaid funeral? You say she kept telling you her funeral was prepaid. Maybe she did that? Its pretty common these days to have a prepaid funeral.
These are special CD's specifically purchased to complete the funding of your funeral when you pass. From what I read online, they aren't redeemed until you pass and then by your heirs. She purchased the first one for $1,000 right when she set up the contract and then another one for $2000 a few months later. She sent the money to the funeral home and they purchased them in her name at the local bank in PA (she lived in FL). We know they did that because there are two certificates properly registered in her name and SSN.
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Old 06-15-2020, 12:06 PM   #37
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+1000!! I'd do the same. The banks are not your friend, ever.
Ain't that the truth! And Wells Fargo is a the top of the 'not your friend' list.
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Old 06-15-2020, 12:16 PM   #38
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These are special CD's specifically purchased to complete the funding of your funeral when you pass. From what I read online, they aren't redeemed until you pass and then by your heirs. She purchased the first one for $1,000 right when she set up the contract and then another one for $2000 a few months later. She sent the money to the funeral home and they purchased them in her name at the local bank in PA (she lived in FL). We know they did that because there are two certificates properly registered in her name and SSN.
That's a little different twist. Did you see if the banks are holding them in the name of the funeral home? Stranger things have happened.
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Old 06-15-2020, 02:21 PM   #39
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That's a little different twist. Did you see if the banks are holding them in the name of the funeral home? Stranger things have happened.
I attached a scan of one of the certificates to the initial post. The blacked out lines above and below the words Burial Reserve are her name and her address. Also, her SSN is on the certificate and I blacked it out, too. There is no reference to the funeral home anywhere on the certificate (thankfully!).
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Old 06-16-2020, 09:11 PM   #40
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My deceased friend's son texted me today to tell me he had spoken with his contact at the funeral home. The gentleman has worked at this funeral home for years.

Funeral home guy says he has encountered multiple people who have had issues with burial reserve CD's getting 'lost' at Wells Fargo.

Well, isn't that interesting!
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