Finding a 'lost' CD

[jazz4cash]

What I don't understand is why WF can get away with claiming "we can't find it/ we know nothing". Since you have the certificate # they should be required to provide proof to credentialed family member of the disposition of certificate #XYZ4.

 

[pb4uski]

What I don't understand is why WF can get away with claiming "we can't find it/ we know nothing". Since you have the certificate # they should be required to provide proof to credentialed family member of the disposition of certificate #XYZ4.

+1 if they can't provide the documentation when it was redeemed... a withdrawal request signed by the deceased... and where the proceeds were sent or a cancelled check for the proceeds then they can't refute the other evidence that the CD still exists.

But still a great lesson for us all to keep good track of all things financial that are significant.

 

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

I'm sure the rot at Wells Fargo flows from the top. The CEO and the OCC can hash it out.

The OCC does not do much more than pass the complaint along. I filed a complaint last year on Synchrony bank lying to me and taking more than three weeks to transfer IRA funds to another institution. Customer service insisted the finds were transferred the day after my request and must be lost but they would not reissue the check for a full month. When the other institution finally got the funds, I requested a copy of the envelope and sure the postmark date was three weeks after my request. After my complaint Synchrony called me once and left a voice mail. I called back within a few minutes and three times after that with no return phone call. They sent me a small check for my loss of interest along with a letter that they had attempted to contact me multiple times which was a lie and reported to OCC that case was resolved. OCC then closed my complaint without communicating with me to see if I was satisfied.

 

[cathy63]

+1 if they can't provide the documentation when it was redeemed... a withdrawal request signed by the deceased... and where the proceeds were sent or a cancelled check for the proceeds then they can't refute the other evidence that the CD still exists.

But still a great lesson for us all to keep good track of all things financial that are significant.

How long would you expect a bank to be able to provide such documentation? I really hope that OP is able to get satisfaction, but I'm afraid the Comptroller is going to say something like "sorry, but it's been 10 years during which the owner made no effort to inquire about the missing funds or report the lack of a 1099, and banks are only required to retain docs for 7 years, so you're out of luck". What if it had been 20 or 30 years instead of 10? There's got to be some limit. I don't know what it is, and I'm just guessing at 7 since that's how long statements are available online.

 

[jazz4cash]

How long would you expect a bank to be able to provide such documentation? I really hope that OP is able to get satisfaction, but I'm afraid the Comptroller is going to say something like "sorry, but it's been 10 years during which the owner made no effort to inquire about the missing funds or report the lack of a 1099, and banks are only required to retain docs for 7 years, so you're out of luck". What if it had been 20 or 30 years instead of 10? There's got to be some limit. I don't know what it is, and I'm just guessing at 7 since that's how long statements are available online.

I would expect a bank to be able to provide such documentation indefinitely. The original issuer sold what was essentially a term life certificate. Another institution (WFC) took on that obligation. They shouldn't be able to say "it's too hard to figure it out".


I don't recall if this was addressed.....is there FDIC coverage for this certificate?

 

[Buckeye]

What I don't understand is why WF can get away with claiming "we can't find it/ we know nothing". Since you have the certificate # they should be required to provide proof to credentialed family member of the disposition of certificate #XYZ4.

They get away with it because they can, I guess. I agree with you that, given the son has the original certificates, the onus is on Wells Fargo to show him when the payout was made. But right now their response is, "Too bad, so sad!" We just need to find the bigger bully to get them to do the right thing. Hopefully, that is the OCC.

 

[SecondCor521]

CFPB might also help. Not sure.

 

[mystang52]

Another suggestion: Your local Congressman

 

[rothlev]

+1 if they can't provide the documentation when it was redeemed... a withdrawal request signed by the deceased... and where the proceeds were sent or a cancelled check for the proceeds then they can't refute the other evidence that the CD still exists.

But still a great lesson for us all to keep good track of all things financial that are significant.

and the 1099 b showing the sale proceeds --
tell them the onus is on them to prove that it was cashed out -- you have already proved it existed. They need to prove it was redeemed there is a 1099 that was issued at that time, as well a the interest statements thru the year of redeemedtion. They need to provide you that information. Or pay up

Congressman have an office for dealing with these types of issues. They do marvelous work. I had them help me with VA b benefits for my mother. and it worked.

 

[rothlev]

irs would have tax transcripts also -- you could get those and look thru all of them to see what was reported

 

[Buckeye]

Does anyone know why I can't go to page 6 of this thread to see the last post?

I go from page 5 to page 3.

If I try to link through the notification email, I end up on page 3.

And, yes, I cleared out my cookies.

 

[Buckeye]

Does anyone know why I can't go to page 6 of this thread to see the last post?

I go from page 5 to page 3.

If I try to link through the notification email, I end up on page 3.

And, yes, I cleared out my cookies.

The above post started page 7 and I can go there.

 

[pb4uski]

How long would you expect a bank to be able to provide such documentation? I really hope that OP is able to get satisfaction, but I'm afraid the Comptroller is going to say something like "sorry, but it's been 10 years during which the owner made no effort to inquire about the missing funds or report the lack of a 1099, and banks are only required to retain docs for 7 years, so you're out of luck". What if it had been 20 or 30 years instead of 10? There's got to be some limit. I don't know what it is, and I'm just guessing at 7 since that's how long statements are available online.

I worked in financial services for 25 years.... they keep records for a long, long time.... so they have them... whether the can find them with the changes in corporate ownership is a totally different story. We had records going back many, many years and a whole "Records Center" to house them.

But Wachovia sent the owner a 1099-INT for 2009 in 2010, only 10 years ago.

There is a Wachovia 1099-INT for 2008 (as far back as I have her taxes) and 2009. The reason I know the INT refers to the burial CD is because 'BURIAL RESERVE' is right on the 1099-INT. Wells Fargo would have been responsible for the 2010 1099-INT.

I don't have her 2010 taxes to check for a Wells Fargo 1099-INT. Nothing from Wells Fargo in 2011 or beyond. I called the IRS and talked to a human about getting a transcript. Because they are short-staffed and behind, the IRS is only sending out transcripts for recent years for people trying to file their taxes and get their AGI. She said the limit is 10 years so I'm still under the wire. I also called her tax accountant to see if he did her 2010 taxes. I also need to check an older computer to see if I did her 2010 taxes.

 

[Buckeye]

I worked in financial services for 25 years.... they keep records for a long, long time.... so they have them... whether the can find them with the changes in corporate ownership is a totally different story.

But Wachovia sent the owner a 1099-INT for 2009 in 2010, only 10 years ago.

I didn't think 10 years was a terribly long time. Thank you for confirming. I agree it might not be easy but I believe it is their obligation to either look or pay up. "We have no record" is not an acceptable answer from a major bank given the existing information.

 

[pb4uski]

Now to be clear.... I worked for a life insurer that was organized in 1848 and it was not at all unusual to have policies issued that were 50 or 70 years old or more... banks may be different but there is clearly a lot of circumstantial evidence that the records vanished when Wells Fargo acquired Wachovia.

 

[Buckeye]

Now to be clear.... I worked for a life insurer that was organized in 1848 and it was not at all unusual to have policies issued that were 50 or 70 years old or more... banks may be different but there is clearly a lot of circumstantial evidence that the records vanished when Wells Fargo acquired Wachovia.

We will be happy to save Wells Fargo the trouble of digging in the archives if they pay out at least the 2010 $12,800 value my friend scribbled on the back of the funeral contract.

She did have a life insurance policy she kept for about 78 years so I know at least one company kept track of her for a very long time!

 

[cathy63]

Does anyone know why I can't go to page 6 of this thread to see the last post?

I go from page 5 to page 3.

If I try to link through the notification email, I end up on page 3.

And, yes, I cleared out my cookies.

No idea on the paging issue. I have my forum settings for 100 per page, so this is a one page thread for me. Here's the permalink for post #60 in this thread though: https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/finding-a-lost-cd-104157.html#post2444588

Does that help you get to your page 6?

 

[cathy63]

I worked in financial services for 25 years.... they keep records for a long, long time.... so they have them... whether the can find them with the changes in corporate ownership is a totally different story. We had records going back many, many years and a whole "Records Center" to house them.

But Wachovia sent the owner a 1099-INT for 2009 in 2010, only 10 years ago.

It's good to know it should be possible to track this down if someone is willing to make the effort. I hope it works out.

 

[Thunder Up]

Worked at large credit union in senior management for a number of years and this issue came up several times. Family looking at an old statement and wanted to know where all the money went. I was always able to explain the differences. A lot of manual work, not much fun. That’s probably why Wells is telling you no records, they are thinking the work and time involved.

Your best bet is to search old statements and see if you can find a statement with the CD listed and then moving forward, a statement without the cd listed. Then you narrow the timeframe. If you do not have the statements, you can ask Wells to provide you the statements.

Wells will likely want $$$$$ to retrieve the old statements. That’s were the COC can be your friend. Ask the COC for some help with reduced statement fees.

Good Luck.

 

[pb4uski]

^^^ Good info.

The funeral home financing for my great-aunt only sent statements annually... but they did send them... IOW, it wasn't at a financial institution that she had other accounts at that she might have received a statement more frequently.

 

[samcat]

My first thought is Wells Fargo - they suck. They have run so many scams that hurt people.

As for your friend, it seems like she would not have cashed it out since it was for burial. Did you check PA unclaimed property (I think you had mentioned FL)? Otherwise, you need to push WF to do the research. You must have an acocunt number. They should be able to track it. Ten years is a short time period when it comes to finances.

 

[indiajust]

Wow, what a saga. Reminds me to pinch myself and smile for consolidating accounts and simplifying my paperwork. Hmmm, better back up that hard drive one more time...

 

[AvocadoRV]

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loc...ose-widow-it-doesnt-have-her-30000-cd/183885/


https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/man-finds-32k-cd-bank-wont-cash-it/2003595/


Apparently, at least according to one of these reports, WF has lost at least 500 CDs over the past several years, with the excuse that they only are "required" to keep records for seven years.



There are some additional agencies listed as being recommended to contact for these types of issues

 

[rk911]

What is more likely: multiple systems showing no record or over decades of time someone cashes them out? ...

ordinarily i’d have agreed with this but Wells Fargo has demonstrated enough unethical behavior to warrant an investigation.

 

[mystang52]

I'm getting more outraged at Wells Fargo as I follow this interesting thread. I remember reading about Swiss Banks, after WW II, refusing to give back Holocaust survivors their money because they didn't have enough proof. The banks had figured no one would come back to them for their money.
Maybe OP could contact a newspaper and suggest this angle.

Edit to add: But in this case OP's friend's family has the proof, which make WF's actions even more egregious.