FIREside-- Bitter Criticism by friends / family & dealing with it?

[haha]

When I first FIREd, my parents protested a bit, but once I was a year or two into it they got much more supportive. My retiring into a more frugal lifestyle than when I was working suddenly impacted my parents: it became clear that I wasn't going to financially support their living above their means in retirement, whereas when I was working and accumulating a pot of money, I think they might have had their eyes on it as their retirement fun money.

A few years into my retirement, things are much better. I no longer worry about my parents spending, and I no longer project the vibe of worrying about them. I no longer feel any conflict about retiring or saving my parents from their overspending. The decision has been made; I'm retiring rather than saving them from their overspending, and everyone now knows it. My parents seem to feel free to again overspend in their usual ways, and who knows perhaps they have some financial silver bullet that I don't know about that is going to make it okay. At any rate, it's no longer anything I worry about.

Because I'm not giving my parents the "I don't think your finances are going to work out" vibe, they have reciprocated and are now being supportive of my financial decisions.

Very insightful post. Most of us as adult children are sensitive to our parents approval or disapproval. It takes a while to figure out that our parents are also sensitive to our approval or disapproval. Somewhere along the way something flips and parents become aware that they can be judged as well as judging their children. That is a good time to try to get completely off the judgment train.

I have found that if I will have de facto responsibility for someone coming up short, it can be hard for me to stand by and watch what are very likely to be foolish moves. So I sould get to be an annoying presence.

That is one reason it can be easier to be single.

I learned a bit about old age when I lived in a small town. Being old and alone can be fine, if you are in an environment that can give some social support, and if you like yourself and your life. I knew some old bachelors and widowers who lived in cabins along the river. They spent their days doing things not far different than what their ancestors might have done 1000 years ago. Looked pretty good to me. Nothing quite like a fat fish pulled right out of the river and into your skillet to make the day look promising.

BTW, I recently saw Clint Eastwood's Gran Torino. An excellent movie with this as one of its themes.

Ha

 

[youbet]

I don't think they're worried about me being a burden, in fact in that department, ironically, they might actually be very helpful. Not that I ever would impose. Maybe because I'm too proud, so I'd definitely return to work first.

Wow! You'd actually work to support yourself in lieu of mooching off the family....... What a guy!

 

[Walt34]

We heard a little bit of that from a couple of DW's relatives, but then we don't have their monthly payments either....

One BIL is now nearly 62, wants desperately to retire but can't because for years he's always been the one to show how generous he is by picking up the tab at a restaurant, is first to order the appetizer, has the McMansion on the two-acre lot, and is still paying credit card interest charges and car payments.

LBYM does have its benefits....

 

[wcv56]

glad | got my wild oats out working most of my life overseas. Retirement can be boring which may cause it to be expensive. Read thaivisa.com plenty of $1k to 2K a monthretirees on the site, should be some info in regards to being a slave to money in your 50's and 60's. 700K with a place paid for would be more fun for a 50ish person.

I wouldn't even trust myself under your circumstances at your age and was there with more. I have mostly enjoyed work no matter how stressful it can be.Guess I am just to scared of living poor and trying to go back to work in my 60's.

I would rather die working than have every thought of every day being about what I can and cannot afford to do and where to do it. Learn to enjoy building the golden egg than spending it, laughing all the way to the bank is enjoyable. Old saying goes don't worry about spending money that is easy, worry about getting enough to spend for what you want as need is not adjustable by much. Single a couple times and raised children on my own for many years too!

 

[armor99]

Coming under nasty criticism from family (mother mainly, she's now a widow), and some close friends too. This is despite planning this now for 15 years. Has anyone else encountered this, and if so, can I ask how did you deal with it?

i'm talking about bitter criticism, the likes that really shakes your confidence in your own plans, as they seemingly-- 'will you to fail'. .so they can be proved right, perhaps?

EXAMPLES:-
You're lazy! ER / PT is really just an excuse for being lazy! Everybody else works, so why can't you. . you're lazy, that's why!

You're useless. . no good (loser) (because you don't have a McMansion, and a wife, and 4 kids, like everyone else in the family / golf club!).

Your plans are laughable! That's nowhere near enough money to FIRE! You're kidding yourself, you're not in the real world! (of course, net worth & swf & LBYM, aren't something they understand, they live in fear. . no amount of money, is enough to re on, for them!).
Thoughts appreciated. Thanks!

First off I am truely sorry that you do not have a supportive family. I do not either... and I know the amount of pain that can cause.

The reality is.... no matter how old or how successfull we become as adults, we still want praise and adulation from our folks. And when we cannot get it, it drives us crazy.

It has taken me years to come to the understanding that my folks are really not nice people. I have had to emotionally diconnect from them just to preserve my own well being. They have this nasty habit of sucking the very life out of me when I speak to them. You should not allow this to happen to you. It is not healthy or neccessary.

Believing in yourself is very important. In my opinion the only way that you gain self confidence is by planning, implimenting, and in general, doing things yourself whenever possible. Always remember this.... this is your life... it is the only one you are going to get. It belongs to YOU... and only you! Anyone else that would try to deny you your personal happiness in what you really want to do with your 80+ years to live, is just not really worth your time. As for people in your family that are being so negative to you... ask yourself this question. Are they happy with how their lives have turned out? If not... why would you want to follow their advice, and turn into what they are?

 

[Meadbh]

On a side note, I have some written works. Its a total long shot if these will ever be sold, but Ireland is tax free for writers, but of course that could easily be revoked meantime! . .

Hmmm, you have just given me an idea. I've always wanted to write a book. Maybe I'll move back to Ireland after ER and write it there. I mean, it doesn't have to be a bestseller, does it?

 

[Meadbh]

$500k or thereabouts is the bare minimum and it does make some assumptions, such as Ireland, or UK and Europe, continuing free healthcare. It also means topping up with some private coverage for certain things (to avoid long waiting lists).

I had wanted $1M, but cyclical downturns do sting! I know its risky, but my gut tells me do it now before I get too set in my ways, maybe get sick, or cannot travel, for some reason.

Are you mad, or what?

 

[trib1]

Are you mad, or what?

I plan to push hard with the writing regardless. Marketing old works / writing new ones. But since I can't guarantee selling anything, I am effectively retired!

I'm sorry you think I'm crazy. But this far, I've never really taken any real risks, I've always played it safe. What can I do? . . My gut says time to take a risk. For you maybe its kamikaze, but I've done as much planning as I can, and I've thought about this for many years. others have fIre'd on less, the evidence is in the posts on this board!!
I am fully prepared to get work, if in my 50's it doesn't work out. I've done a lot of different things, and I've done them well. I think at the very least I could get work as a teacher etc.

 

[Lawrence of Suburbia]

I made sure most of my friends are absolute sycophants to me.

[...] I have no idea whether you have a hunded thousand or a hundred million. [...]

Is it possible to retire on a hundred? (He asked, hopefully.)

 

[trib1]

. . Retirement can be boring which may cause it to be expensive. . .
I wouldn't even trust myself under your circumstances at your age and was there with more. I have mostly enjoyed work no matter how stressful it can be. . .
I would rather die working than have every thought of every day being about what I can and cannot afford to do and where to do it.

I wish I could think more like you, I think life would be simpler! I've been poor at times, especially when I was writing music. But as long as you're doing something you love, you don't notice living LBYM so much IMHO.

Its helpful having friends around, that have themselves been living on even less, for many years.

I think if you have a need to write, act, draw, perform etc, then you're never quite going to be satisfied until you exhaust all your options.
I believe in what I'm writing about, or beginning to. Its not for everyone but neither is Paulo Coelho. I find it hard contemplating continuing to work in an office environment when I need to scratch this itch.

 

[W2R]

Is it possible to retire on a hundred? (He asked, hopefully.)

Let's see - - 4% of $100,000 is $4000, which would come to a whopping $333/month before taxes. Sorry, Lawrence - - unless you are better at LBYM than I am, it's back to the drawing board for you. ("No soup for you!")

Actually I tend to think that the criticism of his relatives might be well intentioned and even well merited. "Half a million dollars" SOUNDS like a lot, but without SS and pension it wouldn't be enough for many ER Forum members living in the U.S. While I have not lived in the U.K., I find it difficult to believe that the cost of living is much lower there than the cost of living in the U.S. His interest in trips to live in SE Asia and Latin America part time to lower his cost of living, could backfire as well unless he is familiar with these areas.

If I were trib1, I would probably tell my family that I am really burned out and miserable and that I am taking a two year sabbatical to recover, write, travel, and decide what I want to do with the rest of my life - - and that that is the way it is going to be, period. After two years are up, if he can tell them that he has as much in his portfolio as before, they might be more encouraging.

 

[Meadbh]

While I have not lived in the U.K., I find it difficult to believe that the cost of living is much lower there than the cost of living in the U.S.

W2R, the OP is referring to Ireland (the Republic) which is not part of the UK. Heck, they even have different currencies. Having grown up there and being a frequent visitor, I can tell you that, up to the meltdown at least, the cost of living in Ireland was becoming ridicuously high. That's why I'm saying "are you mad or what?"

 

[Dennis]

Well, It Depends on one's view on wether one should "retire" from working and making More $, to Give to Charities or not.. Be they Fellow Members not so able to achieve to Reg. Charities.. Otherwise , you considered to be Selfish..

If you have been Blessed to achieve Financial Inependence, then maybe you need to continue to make Even More to Repay back to those that helped you and then to the Society & Country that also Allowed you to do all this..?

I set aside double what I figured I would need and use the rest to do the above.. and all of it will do the above in my Will..

Fidelity has a Charity Fund that you can allocate to what charities you want the $ Fidelity Charitable Gift Fund | Support charities and simplify your giving to go to..

 

[W2R]

W2R, the OP is referring to Ireland (the Republic) which is not part of the UK. Heck, they even have different currencies. Having grown up there and being a frequent visitor, I can tell you that, up to the meltdown at least, the cost of living in Ireland was becoming ridicuously high. That's why I'm saying "are you mad or what?"

OK, Ireland, then! Either one sounds awfully expensive to me, though I haven't lived in either the U.K. or Ireland.

I still think that a solution to trib1's thorny problem with his relatives might be to tell them he is burned out and miserable, and so he is going to take a two year sabbatical to recover, write, travel, and think about what he wants to do with the rest of his life - - and that that is the way it is going to be, period. Then he can use those two years to demonstrate to himself and his family that he can survive with his portfolio intact and no smaller than it is today.

 

[trib1]

Thanks for your comments its food for thought as they say.

BTW: The criticism is not primarily financial, the key critic, won't even entain the numbers, and switches off whenever I try to present my case. The criticism stems from a value judgment that they themselves have been schooled in, one where it is not the acceptable thing to do (what will they say in the squash club etc).

 

[trib1]

COL in Ireland is somewhat deceptive. Its very much down to being frugal. Being single, LBYM, and without a car, its worlds apart from being married with a family.

I have close friends, who make, and have made 10k euro or less for the past 10-12 years, think tourism miusic, acting and performing. . Let me correct some misconceptions. Ireland is slated-- the rip-off-republic! It certainly is if you're a young family with 2-4 kids, need 2 cars, and you've bought your home in the last 10 years, if so, you're probably hurting right now.

However there are also people doing very well who sold up in major cities like Dublin, and moved south or west before the crash, which by the way: had been predicted every year since 2000!

Rents were high, but the surplus of now vacant properties from immigrants exiting stage right, means prices are coming down fast, especially if you can live off the beaten track (outside Dublin). A car is very expensive here, never mind two, both to own and to run! However plenty of people do not own one. I actually find it forces me to exercise more. I can still call in a favor from buddies (treat them to pints), when infrequently I need one.

I know for a fact we have a very strong arts community here who survive on fresh air it seems. The average producer (TV/Film) made 9 grand (Euro) in 2004! Obviously as previously discussed we have the dole, and we do not pay health insurance.

If you're creative, then you're often willing to forgo more. For truly creative people the cost of sacrificing your soul is far worse than the cost of frugal sacrifices. In that regard, Ireland is a not a bad place to live for artists. In this regard, for me the US was the most difficult place to reside.

This is something I haven't seen debated yet in posts on this forum. Do we have any people onboard here who ER'd to write, paint, perform etc? It would be interesting to know what are the better places to reside for artists?

 

[trib1]

I think we might be going around in circles, so let me put to bed the notion that the criticisms stem from the financial side! None of the critics are willing to examine the numbers, so they don't actually know what my NW/COL/Debt situation is! Could they be interpolating it? It would be very difficult, as I've worked overseas, far from them, for so long.

I have my own concerns regarding the numbers! So why am I still going ahead? its like this, life is unpredictable! Several friends and family have succumbed to tragedies in recent years. . .tomorrow is guaranteed to no one!

We have mixed health in my family on both sides, nobody is making it to 90! Its all very well planning for that, but so far no one in my family has come close, and many didn't get to enjoy much, if any, of their retirement. This colors my perspective.

All this detailed planning is wonderful, but you also need to make it to retirement! Hence my signature: 'plans are what makes God laugh'! There's something to be said for doing what you need to do now, while you're healthy! This post wasn't really about do I have enough $ to retire on. . .

So why not work longer you might ask? I think it comes down to, how much you like yourself in what you're doing.
I used to work in financial services. I was good at what I did, and could have had the nest egg Meadbh and other's are planning, but I didn't like who I was becoming. Obviously my family was happy, as I was making stellar money.

But then someone in my family was cruelly and inexplicably rubbed out. I realized that if it had been me, on my death bed, I wouldn't have wanted to be that same money driven guy.

With Meadbh's retirement next egg, she'll truly be able to retire like a Queen! (even refurbish a modest castle if she ever comes home to the emerald isle). I used to be very meticulous like that, very driven, very studious on tax planning issues etc, but recent events and experiences have forced me to live more in the moment . . .

 

[Meadbh]

With Meadbh's retirement next egg, she'll truly be able to retire like a Queen! (even refurbish a modest castle if she ever comes home to the emerald isle).

That's Queen Meadbh to you!

 

[FIREd]

I agree with Trib.

Europe may sound like a very expensive place to some, but I know for a fact that one can live quite cheaply there (without government assistance). In the mid-1990's, I used to live in a large European city on less than $500 a month. I lived in a nice, safe neighborhood too. Lifestyle expectations are much lower in Europe than they are in the US. A single person living in a small 1-bedroom apartment with no cable TV and no car would not raise an eyebrow there. The availability of cheap healthcare is also a huge bonus. Based on that, I have no doubt that DW and I could live very well in many parts of Europe on 2,000 euros or less per months (we are entertaining the idea to retire in Europe as well).

Today my mom lives in one of the most expensive cities in the world (Geneva, Switzerland) and lives surprisingly well despite an income of only 1,500 euros per month. She lives in a very nice condo with beautiful views of downtown and the surrounding mountains (she owns it outright but still has to pay for condo fees). Her condo is 900 sq. ft. which is very large by European standards. And she eats only pricey organic food. She could lower her bills even more by downsizing her condo which would cut her property taxes, utility bills, condo fees and insurance costs, but at this point having a large living space is her "luxury". She also has high speed internet and basic cable (which she rarely uses) but pays about 60% less than we do in the US. Her car is tiny but for what she does with it, it's the perfect size. She looks very much middle class.

 

[wcv56]

Sorry but TRIB1 if you find the US difficult to live where you have saved 90% more than you would of most likely in the country you were born, being hard. Most likely savings is more than you would of earned in your home country. You are going to
be hard to please and wait until your fellow country men pick up the tab for your health benefits you have paid little or nothing for. A tar and feathering could be much easier than putting up with the harrassment I think you are walking into.

Seems like you are 75% on your way there and demonizing yourself for almost doing
what 99% of the working class wish to achieve in life. I would grind it out to 45 and
re-evaluate your situation. Not only should you be much more profitable by then
but much more beneficial to. At 45 you may not even care who thinks what with a
100+K or more in retirement funds than before. Earnings off $500K coming in plus
a paycheck for a few more years could set you up real nice.
Start living now while working how you think you might have to when you stop having an income. No one said life would be easy but you sure almost have it there.

I think it is great being single having been both. So much easier planning things for oneself than for others.

 

[FIREd]

You are going to
be hard to please and wait until your fellow country men pick up the tab for your health benefits you have paid little or nothing for.

He may not have paid into the national healthcare system for years, but he didn't receive any benefits from it either during that time. As Trib moves back to Ireland, he will, no doubt, have to start paying some kind of monthly premium to start receiving healthcare benefits. I am not familiar with the Irish healthcare system, but if it is anything like what you find in other European countries, he might also have to pay a lump sum, multi-year premium penalty to reintegrate the system and he could face several months of non-coverage for pre-existing conditions. Not exactly a free ride on the back of fellow country men...

 

[Delawaredave5]

I know a guy who is not working - his wife works full time - but out of their house - so they are there all the time.

It does seem to drive some neighbors nuts that this couple has so much precious home time.

1. People who criticize are usually jealous
2 Have self confidence to do what you want in life

America has this "Work / Shop / Work / Shop / Work / Shop" miserable materialistic mentality.

People are brainwashed that this is the only way and purpose of life.

 

[Dennis]

"America has this "Work / Shop / Work / Shop / Work / Shop" miserable materialistic mentality"

Re: I gather you never Went shopping at Nordstroms or On Michigan Ave. In Chgo...or bought a New Car of your Dreams or a New Boat...LOL

But think about it.. if they didn't? Our Economy would collaspe, just as it has now.. We all depend on each other to spend 90-95% of what we earn to support each other's jobs..Social securtiy, etc.. right? Think about that.. before going and complaining people to go saving every dime they make.. That system doesn't work and never will.. ( just look at Europe)

Now go out and Buy that New Chevy Camaro or that New Fridge, Stove or Bar-B-Q..or Spend some $ on a Extreme Make over or at the Spa!

But I do support Taking 10% out of everyone's Income to fund their own retirement and Into A Soc. Sec. System that Works better..thus giving Retiree's about 50% More than they are getting now and probably Double in the future..
How would most live on a $36k yr SS income Now and over $50k/yr SS in 10 yrs from now? and $100k yr when your Kids retire? Sure wish they did this when I worked..!

But, Wall Street Can't afford for this to Go thru and happen..It would Put thousands of Brokers, Professional Advisors and MFnds out of Business.. and Insurance salesmen selling Annuities too!

Gee, now wouldn't that be a shame....LOL