Florida Condo...buy or rent?

[Scuba]

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Originally Posted by Koolau Funny how your expectations change over time. When we first considered FIRE in the Islands, we joked about living under a blue tarp on the beach (don't laugh, the working poor still do that especially on the Ewa coast.) Then we found a nice town house a few miles inland that was about 30 minutes from a decent beach with no Pacific view. Eventually, we (well, she) got tired of the rain band we were in and we moved leeward - just at the right time. During the great recession, our place dropped 10% in value while the place we bought dropped almost 20%, maybe 25% - just about the worst drop we ever saw in the Islands. Long story short, we now have a stunning Pacific view and are plenty close to beaches - without actually living on one, mind you. If I'm making a point it is probably that those of us attracted to beautiful coastal areas only settle for "inland" digs as long as we have to. Eventually we find a way to get closer to our dream, even if it's a bit over priced (in some folks view, anyway.) YMMV

Yes, there is a reason inland property is cheaper than coastal property. Some find more value in the lower prices and other attributes of inland living, while others prefer to live on or very close to the beach. Coastal property tends to appreciate more and hold value better during downturns than inland property does. There are only so many homes on the coast.

[Dash man]

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This view from our 8th floor condo is why we chose Florida for the winters. We live in a relatively quiet area since tourists are a mile or more down the beach and only locals residents from a handful of condos and a row of large billionaire homes use our local beach. Our condo is currently being remodeled, but should be done well before the winter season. We're getting all new electrical and mostly new plumbing including a new master bath, custom cabinets in the kitchen and baths, a washer/dryer added and the drywall replaced or a fresh skim coat. New custom cabinets with quartzite countertop and new appliances. We're raising the ceilings where we can move the HVAC ducting to open up the look and feel of the place. We loved the place last winter and look forward to this coming winter. We'll by flying down in July to check things out and to pick a kitchen backslash and some stacked stone for a water feature wall for the finishing touches.

[Texas Proud]

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Originally Posted by Bamaman A lot of people don't realize that Florida's such a long state. Those living in the panhandle experience 4 seasons, and to be assured of warm winters you need to look from Tampa/Orlando south. My preferred area for quality of living would be from Sarasota south--and especially the Ft. Myers/Naples area. If I was on a budget and looking for a house, Ft. Pierce might fit the bill. Those Florida high rise condos don't draw me. My aunt inherited a 24th floor beachfront penthouse in Ft. Lauderdale, and the HOA board wouldn't allow my cousin to move in because she was a single young lady. HOA's can be such stinkers.

Why would the HOA get involved in who lives in the condo Unless it is a 'senior citizen' condo I do not see how they can prevent it...

[FiveDriver]

Dash Man--
If you don't mind my asking.....where approx is that in FLA ?? is it Atlantic side or Gulf side ??

[imoldernu]

There is an inexpensive and largely overlooked alternative, and that is buying a less expensive home in the central part of the state.
OP mentioned boating, and the natural thought is "the coasts"... but there are 30,000 lakes in Florida, so fresh water is a possibility.
Website covering our lakes:

Harris Chain of Lakes.

Our florida home is in Lake Griffin Harbor, a 55+ gated community of manufactured homes that has a 53 slip marina on a lake that is 2 miles across and 8 miles long, with direct access via canals and a lock to 5 other large lakes... totalling 212 miles of shoreline... plus direct access to the Oklawaha river, which goes to Silver Springs... in Ocala. Most of the boats are runabouts or pontoon.

20% of the community can be under 55, so while it was established 35 years ago, the turnover has been steady, the average age is quite young and the activity level is very high, so not an "old folks home".

So here's my thinking about long term...
The relatively low price makes this type of gated community a great half year home during the cold season. Later on, during the "aging" slowdown, perhaps a move to a coastal hi-rise condo as a permanent home.

The nice thing about owning, versus renting, is the ability to set up housekeeping on a semi permanent basis, versus trying to move six months of personal gear from place to place, every year.

There are dozens of communities on the chain of lakes, similar to ours, so there is plenty of choice.... buy in at a reasonable price and sell when a permanent move to the "warm" makes sense. Sell at the buy price and the total year cost would be less than $10K/yr...including utilities, taxes, insurance etc. ... Plus, you may rent it out when you are not there. Our contract land rental price and cost to own (based on our 1990 Prospectus) is less than $6K. MFG home prices depending on age and size, from about $15K to $70K. Our older singlewide is approximately 1200 sf including add on room.

The 23 years we did the 6 and 6 to LGH were the happiest of our lives. (and we spent a lot of time at Daytona Beach...an hour and 10 minutes away.)

Mentioned here, as an alternative to the Florida coastline communities, where the prices are substantially higher for housing, services, and recreation. My guess is about 15% to 25% different.

Just one option...

[Bestwifeever]

I see Michael Caine is selling a condo in Miami for $8 million plus: https://miami.curbed.com/2017/6/7/15...ne-miami-condo

It had been renting for $29k a month.

[ShokWaveRider]

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Originally Posted by ponyboy Just wait a couple years...or make sure you buy a couple miles inland. Places like miami/ft lauderdale, st Augustine...they're going to be underwater within the next decade. Kind of a bummer cause I like the st augustine area.

This of course is utter rubbish and pure speculation. Maybe 5 decades. I will be long gone by then. St. Augustine is one of the best places to live in the country. We are 10ft above sea level.

[ShokWaveRider]

No one has really talked about condo fees. Here in St. Auggie, they can get up there, $500pm is not unusual.

[Souschef]

In my experience with condos, especially in Florida, I would rent. If you look at the makeup of the owners, the majority are snowbirds who could care less about running the condo-"I pay my rent" is the attitude. The leaves the operation to a small cadre of full time residents who may have their own agenda, and may know nothing about running a condo and the governing laws.
When i used to visit my Mom in Florida in May, the parking lot was almost deserted.

[Dash man]

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Originally Posted by FiveDriver Dash Man-- If you don't mind my asking.....where approx is that in FLA ?? is it Atlantic side or Gulf side ??

Hillsboro Beach, easy access to Ft Lauderdale airport and Port Everglades. Just south of Boca Raton.

[Dash man]

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Originally Posted by Texas Proud Why would the HOA get involved in who lives in the condo Unless it is a 'senior citizen' condo I do not see how they can prevent it...

Our condo association has to approve new owners and renters, including a Skype interview. They want to make sure you understand the HOA finances and the rules.

[bearkeley]

Certainly a lot to consider. Didn't know about the bed tax, for example! That would surely make it harder to make the numbers work, especially if it's an area we would want to live someday (maybe not Michael Cain's unless you guys want to donate to our Florida condo fund?)

We definitely love the water and live on the Chesapeake Bay, so we need to be near the water, but doesn't have to be the coast. We love boating, and currently cruising, enjoying the changing waterfront views....and it's all free when you anchor out...so maybe inland but near the water might be worth considering too.

Although it's so tempting to buy a condo, I guess logically, if we put 300k in a REIT, we could get 15k a year to rent a very nice place for 3-5 months until we find something we really want, in a location we really want (also just saw a listing for an awesome condo in Puerto Rico.....another topic, perhaps?) [emoji12]

[Texas Proud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dash man Our condo association has to approve new owners and renters, including a Skype interview. They want to make sure you understand the HOA finances and the rules.

You made it sound like they would not approve because she was young... that is against the law... and as far as I know they have to go with the law.... also, if she is not the owner who cares if she does not know about the finances... that is the owners job...

Now, if she said I do not care about your rules and I plan to have a party every day... then I can see them declining...

[Texas Proud]

I know someone else mentioned the monthly condo fees... that is important... but as Dash Man pointed out the finances of the condo is also important....

If you remember, there is a building in San Francisco that is leaning... at some time they might have to take expensive measures to correct the problem... and guess who gets to pay if they do not win the lawsuit


Also, high rise condos are usually much higher than low rise... sometimes by 2X to 3X... that can be a big difference in annual costs...

[Dash man]

Our quarterly condo fees are close to $1600, but include water, trash, fiber optic Internet and basic cable TV and 24 hr security. However, because the owners refuse to vote to maintain a reserve, there is an average of an additional $200/month of assessments paid annually for each owner. The 46 year old building is in pretty good shape though and they try to manage the assessments so there aren't two large ones two years in a row. But the older residents complain, yet they continue to vote against reserves. Politics in a large condo can be brutal.

[Out of Steam]

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Originally Posted by Scuba Yes, there is a reason inland property is cheaper than coastal property. Some find more value in the lower prices and other attributes of inland living, while others prefer to live on or very close to the beach. Coastal property tends to appreciate more and hold value better during downturns than inland property does. There are only so many homes on the coast.

In most places in the Northeast/mid-Atlantic and West Coast, governments limit new construction keeping up demand for existing houses. Most places in the Southern U.S., including Florida, they can (and do) always bulldoze and fill another 1000 acres to build subdivisions. Unless you have a waterfront or ocean/gulf view property, there no possibility of scarcity.

Your used house will always be competing with a large supply of new houses if you want to sell. The value proposition is more like buying a Buick than buying real estate. Nothing wrong with that if you can stay long enough for leave your executor to deal with it, but most people will eventually need to sell.

[Just_Steve]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dash man Our quarterly condo fees are close to $1600, but include water, trash, fiber optic Internet and basic cable TV and 24 hr security. However, because the owners refuse to vote to maintain a reserve, there is an average of an additional $200/month of assessments paid annually for each owner. The 46 year old building is in pretty good shape though and they try to manage the assessments so there aren't two large ones two years in a row. But the older residents complain, yet they continue to vote against reserves. Politics in a large condo can be brutal.

$9,000 a year in HOA fees, yuck.

[Elbata]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponyboy Just wait a couple years...or make sure you buy a couple miles inland. Places like miami/ft lauderdale, st Augustine...they're going to be underwater within the next decade. Kind of a bummer cause I like the st augustine area.

I saw "Day After Tomorrow" too. Very educational.

[Dash man]

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Originally Posted by Just_Steve $9,000 a year in HOA fees, yuck.

Yes, but it included good high speed Internet, cable, water and 24/7 security guards. The building is in good condition and we have a beautiful view from our condo, it's beachfront and also has a nice pool with a huge deck. We're happy and can afford it. Our Pennsylvania home we pay $500/ yr and the only the we get are the public areas mowed and trash pickup. If you add the cost of cable, water, landscape maintenance, security system with cameras, a new roof this year, new windows last year, a storage shed, a backup generator the year before, higher insurance....you get the idea. The $7,000-$9,000 in condo fees aren't so bad. And we just write a check and everything else is taken care of except the property taxes and remodeling if desired.

[Dash man]

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Originally Posted by Elbata I saw "Day After Tomorrow" too. Very educational.

Entertainment, not so much educational.