Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-11-2008, 06:35 AM   #61
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,543
Quote:
Originally Posted by . . . Yrs to Go View Post
This will be interesting to watch and will tell us a lot about our President Elect. Is he a problem solving pragmatist or a big union liberal?

The reality is that GM, Ford, & Chrysler need to restructure their costs to fit within their revenues. While a bankruptcy court would be particularly well suited to handle this, the recent election suggests Chapter 11 is not in the cards. But unfortunately for our well meaning politicians, government largess can only forestall the inevitable. To fix the underlying problem the cost structures will have to be rationalized . . . it will be interesting to watch Obama try to manage the competing interests. I have to admit, I'm not "hopeful" of the outcome.

Obama has said he supports a bailout as long as the UAW comes to the table and gives something up to make the business solvent
al_bundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 11-11-2008, 06:47 AM   #62
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by BunsGettingFirm View Post
This stuff happens everywhere, but I would say that people on the coasts tend to spend less time obsessing about the nefarious people in Middle America.
I've lived on one coast or another for 50 years. mostly within a mile or less of the saltwater. I am trying really hard to remember if I have ever heard anyone make any comment about "people from off". I don't think I ever have. On the other hand where I was born in The Interior, I heard a lot about those Nasty Yankees.

So many people on the coasts are originally from elsewhere, the younger ones still depend on care packages from Mom back in Minnasota.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 06:58 AM   #63
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 8,764
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post
Could you give some reference for that? Where did you read that pay for Honda/Toyota is the same as for UAW workers, including all benefits for active and retired employees. I don't think that's true. But I'm more than ready to stand corrected if you can mention some creditable source for that information......
Youbet, I've read that article (or a similar one) too, but wasn't able to find it in a couple minutes of googling. But what I remember is that the Honda/Toyota employees were actually higher paid than the GM/Fordsters, but that the lack of pension/healthcare combined with seriously less efficient production techniques made the American made cars more expensive. The average Toyota sale made the company $1K+, whereas the average car sale for Ford lost the comany about the same. The article also stated that the American factories were gaining on the furriners productivity-wise, but still couldn't compete due to the benefits as well as rebates and distribution costs.

Disclosure - Toyota owner since 1979. Every American car I ever tried was a POS in comparison (except my first one, a 1965 Mustang - )
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Anonymous (not Will Rogers or Sam Clemens)
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 07:18 AM   #64
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Notmuchlonger View Post
Oh without a doubt. I lived in the mid west before coming out to CA. People here look at me like Im crazy when I mentioned moving back
Come back!

I'll be happy to bail someone out on a warm coast if I can come use their spare bedroom from November 1 to March 1.
Bestwifeever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 07:45 AM   #65
Gone but not forgotten
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sarasota,fl.
Posts: 11,447
So are all coastal area residents considered snobs or is it only Calif. & NYC . So living in Florida am I snobby and if I move Maine still snobby ? There are coastal areas of Florida that make flyover country look like heaven.
Moemg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 07:54 AM   #66
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,773
I think OP was including only Manhattan and LA (not even all of California or New York) as the coastal snobs. Maine and Florida will have to work harder to get that reputation
Bestwifeever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 08:23 AM   #67
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post
Obama has said he supports a bailout as long as the UAW comes to the table and gives something up to make the business solvent
Hmmm, interesting. I only saw that he wanted help for the auto's, I didn't see any comments about actually making them viable companies again. I did see the UAW say that they weren't agreeing to any more concessions - they think they've given enough. The UAW no doubt feels like they have a bit of pull with the new President and both houses of Congress . . . it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 08:50 AM   #68
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
As to the OP, it would be my view that people who are well traveled, have lived in a number of different locations, are exposed daily to a great diversity of cultures, opinions, religious beliefs and lifestyles will generally be more tolerant and open minded individuals than those who aren't.
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 09:39 AM   #69
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 14,183
“Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand."

Jesus


"A house divided against itself cannot stand."

A. Lincoln
__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire

...not doing anything of true substance...
HFWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 03:22 PM   #70
Gone but not forgotten
Khan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,924
Send a message via AIM to Khan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moemg View Post
So are all coastal area residents considered snobs or is it only Calif. & NYC . So living in Florida am I snobby and if I move Maine still snobby ? There are coastal areas of Florida that make flyover country look like heaven.
I grew up in the NE about 100 miles from NYC; have lived on the DC beltway, and within 80 miles of San Francisco. Have been in Ohio for 30 years.

Am I snobby or salt-of-the-earth flyover?
__________________
"Knowin' no one nowhere's gonna miss us when we're gone..."
Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 04:45 PM   #71
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by HFWR View Post
“Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand."

Jesus


"A house divided against itself cannot stand."

A. Lincoln

"Me against my brother"
"My brother and I against my cousin"
"The three of us against the world"

source unknown, possibly ancient Arabic.
Westernskies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 05:53 PM   #72
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley View Post
... But what I remember is that the Honda/Toyota employees were actually higher paid than the GM/Fordsters, but that the lack of pension/healthcare combined with seriously less efficient production techniques made the American made cars more expensive.
I just saw this 5 min ago on CNBC.

Average Total Compensation (wage+benefits):

For Big 3: $73/hr
For Toyota: $48/hr
For US worker: $28/hr
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 06:58 PM   #73
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 13,151
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley View Post
Youbet, I've read that article (or a similar one) too, but wasn't able to find it in a couple minutes of googling. But what I remember is that the Honda/Toyota employees were actually higher paid than the GM/Fordsters, but that the lack of pension/healthcare combined with seriously less efficient production techniques made the American made cars more expensive. The average Toyota sale made the company $1K+, whereas the average car sale for Ford lost the comany about the same. The article also stated that the American factories were gaining on the furriners productivity-wise, but still couldn't compete due to the benefits as well as rebates and distribution costs.
Well, you might be recollecting your reading material incorrectly. Happens to me!

The Big Three has agreements with the UAW and in some cases get to pay newly highered workers on reduced pay schedules as compared to senior workers. Your reading material might have been refering to that. But, when you compare the total labor + benefit costs of Big Three produced cars, including retiree health care and pensions, work rules related to pay for time not worked, etc., The Big Three are at a significant disadvantage from a labor-related cost perspective.

IMO, the only way out is bankruptcy and reorganization with completely new union contracts and govt picking up retiree benefits. Or, perhaps the UAW coming to the table and sharing in the pain during any bailout negotiations.

There is a reason the Toyota/Honda plants are primarily in right to work states.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 07:13 PM   #74
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Fireup2020's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,250
Some of us needed to read the post to learn the phrase "flyover country"...I did miss this board!
__________________
Make no mistake, my friend, it takes more than money to make men rich. - A. P. Gouthey
Fireup2020 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 08:18 PM   #75
Gone but not forgotten
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sarasota,fl.
Posts: 11,447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khan View Post
I grew up in the NE about 100 miles from NYC; have lived on the DC beltway, and within 80 miles of San Francisco. Have been in Ohio for 30 years.

Am I snobby or salt-of-the-earth flyover?
You are a ex snobby semi nouveau fly over !
Moemg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 08:20 PM   #76
Gone but not forgotten
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sarasota,fl.
Posts: 11,447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireup2025 View Post
Some of us needed to read the post to learn the phrase "flyover country"...I did miss this board!


I live near an airport in a coastal area so am I a flyover or a coastal resident ?
Moemg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 10:06 PM   #77
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 7,108
In my youth kids shouted "California Driver!" when a car didn't yield to a pedestrian. It was almost as good as a swear word. Need I mention that I lived in Oregon? The attitude has mellowed but the locals still have a lot of fun casting a side ways glance at folks with cars with California plates - an inside joke. The attitude was based on the effect of the lack of land use planning in LA and the fact that they always seemed to have so much money to spend.
__________________
Duck bjorn.
Brat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 10:14 PM   #78
Moderator Emeritus
CuppaJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: At The Cafe
Posts: 6,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brat View Post
In my youth kids shouted "California Driver!" when a car didn't yield to a pedestrian....
Rolling through an intersection was called a "Saint Louis Stop" in WI.
CuppaJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2008, 05:32 AM   #79
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
kcowan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pacific latitude 20/49
Posts: 7,677
Send a message via Skype™ to kcowan
Quote:
Originally Posted by CuppaJoe View Post
Rolling through an intersection was called a "Saint Louis Stop" in WI.
It was called a Hollywood Stop in Tronno.
__________________
For the fun of it...Keith
kcowan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2008, 07:02 AM   #80
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
happy2bretired's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 1,543
In a small town in Nebraska (where I grew up) those roll thru stops were called California stops. Oh...I think I live in fly over country....hehe...and love to visit those other places. I would never be able to afford living there but really like those visits.
happy2bretired is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Circum-Coastal Amtrak Border Ride? Enuf Life after FIRE 52 08-23-2008 08:50 PM
Newcuelair flyover REWahoo Other topics 27 10-20-2007 09:43 AM
atm's suck mathjak107 Other topics 14 10-25-2006 02:13 AM
Out of the blue expenses suck accountingsucks FIRE and Money 64 05-09-2006 12:34 PM
Long URLs suck BristolBane Forum Admin 2 07-13-2005 08:24 AM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:48 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.