For church goers only. How much do you give?

[Goonie]

My vote went under "I don't meet the requirements."

(the following is NOT meant to be a 'rant' or even 'preachy'....merely MY viewpoint)

I don't and won't attend "services" of any organized religious institution. Haven't for several (many) years. I do gather together with other believers of like mind, house-to-house. We not only have no buildings to waste oodles of money on support, we also have NO paid clergy, or for that matter, we have NO clergy. Seems to me (us) that this was actually the way the "church" (the ecclesia) met in the early centuries of Christendom. At least until Constantine came along and developed his religious rituals and traditions....(and needed cash to finance his dreams).

As individuals we can "give" in any way deemed appropriate. Some do the money thing to other charities, like the local food pantry, or the homeless shelter, or Habitat, or things like that. Others "give" their time and effort to help others, and to make our community and our world a better place. Some buy food or pay utility bills or such things, for those who can't make it on their own.

In our reading of things, tithing was required in the Old Testament era, and that tithe was to be taken, originally to the Tabernacle, then later to the Temple. The Temple was destroyed (and never rebuilt) in around or about 68 to 70 A.D. Therefore, there was no longer anywhere, according to the law of Moses, to "legally" take the tithe. So it was (is) no longer a Biblical requirement. Christ never called for tithing, nor did Paul, Peter, John, or the rest of the guys. And one would think if it was of such great importance in the New Testament era, somebody would have stated it as such!

Having said all that....I still say "each to their own"...do what you feel compelled to do. You might be right....I might be right....or either OR both of us might be wrong!

As someone above posted...God does love a cheerful giver!

[kjpliny]

I think giving 10% of your gross or even your net income to any organized religion seems excessive, unless your seriously rich and money doesn't matter. Find some people living on the street with nothing and give the money to them instead. Eliminate the middle man.

[Goonie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjpliny I think giving 10% of your gross or even your net income to any organized religion seems excessive, unless your seriously rich and money doesn't matter. Find some people living on the street with nothing and give the money to them instead. Eliminate the middle man.

Agreed!!! 8)

[Independent]

I like Goonie's "church". That is also what I envision the early Christians doing.

However, I also remember Paul saying that there is nothing wrong with paying a full time pastor, "a laborer is worthy of his hire".

I also learned that the tithing requirement was for the Old Testament Jews, not for Christians.

And, certainly that it makes sense to include all my charitable contributions when I determine how much to give.

[Meadbh]

When I donate to charity I do so because I "love" my neighbour (caritas = love) not because I have to. A tithe levied as a condition of participation in a church or other association is involuntary and therefore, as far as I am concerned, is a tax. Tithing and charity are not the same. Tithing, as described in the old testament, predated the invention of income tax (which was introduced to pay for WWI). Church tithes are not the only ones in existence. For example, my income from seeing patients is tithed on a sliding scale by my university department. While the tithe is tax deductible, it is a work related expense which will disappear when I RE.

I do not donate to religious causes. The demonination into which I was born has shown itself to be extraordinarily corrupt and unaccountable. If it were Megacorp, I would not work for it. For my charitable donations, I prefer to select good organizations that are doing work that will achieve the goals I care about, with a minimum of administrative overhead.

[BarbaraAnne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadbh I do not donate to religious causes. The demonination into which I was born has shown itself to be extraordinarily corrupt and unaccountable. If it were Megacorp, I would not work for it. For my charitable donations, I prefer to select good organizations that are doing work that will achieve the goals I care about, with a minimum of administrative overhead.

I had the same experience with donations to religious causes and like you, prefer to make my own choices about which organizations to support

[lazygood4nothinbum]

i'm not a church goer, but apparently i do donate my property tax money to help pay to support all the town services used for free by the churches. can i write that off as charitable giving?

[youbet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjpliny I think giving 10% of your gross or even your net income to any organized religion seems excessive, unless your seriously rich and money doesn't matter. Find some people living on the street with nothing and give the money to them instead. Eliminate the middle man.

I guess you could say that funding government welfare is similar...... you know, a middle man, but this time it's Uncle Sam.......

[jdw_fire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonie In our reading of things, tithing was required in the Old Testament era, and that tithe was to be taken, originally to the Tabernacle, then later to the Temple.

Actually the first tithe was given before there was a Tabernacle or the Temple, in fact before there was an Israel. It was given by Abraham to Melchizedek and the was no Law requiring it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonie Christ never called for tithing, nor did Paul, Peter, John, or the rest of the guys. And one would think if it was of such great importance in the New Testament era, somebody would have stated it as such!

Read Heb 7.

[donheff]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScaredtoQuit As far as I know, the requirement to tithe comes from the old testament. "Now consider how great this man was whom Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils" -

I wonder what the original word that has been translated as "spoils" meant. Spoils in today's parlance would not apply to income from work. It would apply to gains from war or the gains from political power (patronage). So the civil servants who got free sinecures would owe some of the proceeds to the church that gave it to them?

[ScaredtoQuit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonie In our reading of things, tithing was required in the Old Testament era, and that tithe was to be taken, originally to the Tabernacle, then later to the Temple. The Temple was destroyed (and never rebuilt) in around or about 68 to 70 A.D. Therefore, there was no longer anywhere, according to the law of Moses, to "legally" take the tithe. So it was (is) no longer a Biblical requirement. Christ never called for tithing, nor did Paul, Peter, John, or the rest of the guys. And one would think if it was of such great importance in the New Testament era, somebody would have stated it as such!

That's an argument that makes sense. Maybe I should try it on my DW?

[bosco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScaredtoQuit I think the way it works is that anything in the old testament would apply to any Judeo-Christian religion.

how about "He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD"

it's in Deuterenomy 23:1 right before the description of where god sends down various plagues to punish those who spurn him. And he was a bit vindicitive (this was before the kindler gentler god of the testament--this one frequently exhibited the godly emotion of jealousy).

since I had a vasectomy, according to scripture, I can't go to church. Since I take all this very seriously, I haven't been near one in years

of course, I realize that my position has risks:

"The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed." (Deuteronomy 28:27)

yowser!!! these emerods are bad enough--can't wait for the "botch of Egypt"!!!!

oh yeah--I take that stuff seriously!!! I give to Doctors without Frontiers and Oxfam. Rather feed people than give them preperation H

[Sam]

Thank you all for participating.

Average percentage: 3.8%
Median percentage: 2.5%

The rather significant difference between Average and Median is caused by the generous large group of church goers donating 10 to 12.99% of their gross income.

What's wrong with the 7 to 9.99% range? Not a single vote there.

Mystery: Which Moderator adds the "I don't go to church or synagogue or anywhere else." ? It wasn't there when I created the poll.

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Mystery: Which Moderator adds the "I don't go to church or synagogue or anywhere else." ? It wasn't there when I created the poll.

Sorry, that was me. I added it before I noticed the rules, but others had voted by the time I went back to change it.

I don't know if one has to be a moderator for the "Edit Poll" feature. There doesn't seem to be a way to lock or unlock a poll-editing feature. Does anyone else on the board see "Edit Poll" up there with the choices on other people's polls?

[Sam]

No problem. I'm pretty sure only moderators have that ability.

[lazygood4nothinbum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donheff I wonder what the original word that has been translated as "spoils" meant.

of course a literal translation could be what would have spoiled.

for six years of my childhood, every tuesday & thursday after public school and every sunday i was sent to hebrew school. every friday night and saturday morning i was in temple. if it wasn't for a whole lot of daydreaming, i never would have survived it.

but there were at least two stories i heard and always kept in mind. one was that when jewish people harvested their fields, they could only put into their carts what they could carry. any part of the harvest which fell back to the field on the way to their cart was left for the poor to freely gather. that translated into my life as leaving coins that fall from my pocket onto the ground. for surely the sweeper needs them more than i.

the other charitable tradition i recall is the jubilee, to return, every 50 years, what was bought or taken. land reverted back to original owners. servants are set free. to that end i'll be willing a good portion of my inheritance to help gay youth who have such a high rate of suicide due, i believe, to low self-esteem caused by teachings of the church.

while most take the jewish term tzedakah to mean charity, it actually refered to what is just and right rather than to what we think of today as charitable. it is less philanthropic and more obligatory. it is not unlike how i feel about lbym because i consider saving money as much a part of the expenses of life, not unlike paying my utility bill, rather than as a part of living below my means. because my means includes saving money. saving money is not simply a byproduct of sacrificing immediate gratification. just as helping others is nothing charitable. it is why you are here.

the shame of charity is that it is so easily corrupted. it is one of the reasons why my bar-mitzvah was my last time in temple and why i vehemently, in many--but not all--respects, oppose the church today. for instance, i am very thankful to the supreme court of florida for stopping baby bush in his tracks. that this antithetical robin hood had tried to steal from our public school system to offer as cash vouchers to religious education institutions slapped the face of charity.

for in true charity you do not take to give. you do not take my property tax money to pay for your services. you do not take my education money to pay for your preaching. true charity obligates you to give what you have, not to take what is mine. why? because we are all sovereign. all of us.

'the earth is the eternal's and all that it holds" ~~ psalms 24:1

"the land must not be sold beyond reclaim, for the land is mine" ~~leviticus 25:23

[kjpliny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbet I guess you could say that funding government welfare is similar...... you know, a middle man, but this time it's Uncle Sam.......

Actually, it's worse...because you don't have a choice. In my opinion, we'd be better off if 98% of the government agencies disappeared tomorrow.

[MooreBonds]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam What's wrong with the 7 to 9.99% range? Not a single vote there.

I just weighed in with a vote in the 7-9.99% range (before reading the thread). I've been accumulating my net worth over the years with relatively little donations up thru 2005...but started with contributions to a donor-advised fund last year, and will make another large contribution this year as well. If you add up my contributions from last year and this year, it will approximate 8% +/- of my total gross income of my entire life up to this point. In future years, will try for 3%-5% of gross, with my DAF growing in the account and being disbursed through the years. (that, and my current revocable trust calls for 85% of my entire net worth to be distributed to a variety of charities...mostly Catholic...so when I do pass on, it'll be a lot more than 7%-9%).

[Gumby]

..

[Enuff2Eat]

i was just wonder, giving money to church is act of kindness (volunteer behavior) or an obligation? can anyone loves jesus/god but don't have to give money to church?? and last, how many others religions out there requires the followers to give money.

enuff