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Old 11-12-2016, 05:15 PM   #21
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As a former fraud investigator, I can answer that. The answer is "not many". Most of the time the charge is kicked back to the merchant. I talked to a regional security guy for Visa one time (mid 1990's) and he said their fraud losses were less than one-tenth of one percent of their profits. Essentially, the electric bill was larger.

Whether to pursue fraud charges is a business decision, not a legal or moral one. Is there a realistic probability of recovering the loss? How much will it cost to file charges in terms of time, personnel cost, travel costs, etc.? Most of the time these cc thieves have a net worth of about $1.98 so it isn't worth going after them for money they don't have.
That is interesting. Is there any possibility of the crook not being paid if the charge is still in "pending" status ? Its one of the best features of instant text messages. I get to alert the fraud departments quickly.
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Old 11-12-2016, 06:46 PM   #22
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If the crook used the card to buy a product, they have the product (most of the time - see below) and it's the merchant that may eat the fraud. For card-present transactions, if your card has an EMV chip but the merchant processed it as a swipe transaction, they're liable for the fraud. Otherwise the bank assumes liability, but as Walt34 says, it's a cost of doing business and they don't usually pursue it.

I did once have my Costco Amex card number stolen and used to purchase an airplane ticket (From Mexico to Spain!) for some weeks in the future. Amex caught it well in advance and I assume that the airline canceled the ticket.
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Old 11-12-2016, 08:22 PM   #23
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Buddy of mine worked in IT at a company that did CC authorizations. He'd always said the week before Christmas and a couple days after they had issues with the volume. Based on the load they would up the default CC limit just to keep their systems up, i.e. no real checking occurred.
I have w*rked in two of those CC authorization places (one with B and America in the name and in the "Don't Leave H... W... It..." Centurian place. I never heard of the practice of just indiscriminately increasing credit limits . . . and there are some things that I do not know, so this may have happened. My involvement with the aforementioned organizations ended in the early 00's, and things may be very different now.

If I had to do this with resources that might be constrained in "peak season" (i.e. you do not have enough capacity to check every authorization to the level that you would like to), I would develop an algorithm for which the input is 0) negative rating of customer or cardholder, 1) current system capacity (current workload on the system), 2) dollar amount of the authorization, 3) quick check of account history . . . and some other factors that I have not thought about.

I guess one would call this an "adaptive system" that does as much is it can using the capacity that is available to it.
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Old 11-12-2016, 08:52 PM   #24
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I have w*rked in two of those CC authorization places (one with B and America in the name and in the "Don't Leave H... W... It..." Centurian place. I never heard of the practice of just indiscriminately increasing credit limits . . . and there are some things that I do not know, so this may have happened. My involvement with the aforementioned organizations ended in the early 00's, and things may be very different now.

If I had to do this with resources that might be constrained in "peak season" (i.e. you do not have enough capacity to check every authorization to the level that you would like to), I would develop an algorithm for which the input is 0) negative rating of customer or cardholder, 1) current system capacity (current workload on the system), 2) dollar amount of the authorization, 3) quick check of account history . . . and some other factors that I have not thought about.

I guess one would call this an "adaptive system" that does as much is it can using the capacity that is available to it.
This was in the 80s under CICS. The application had a minimum charge amount to check variable(in CICS Shared memory so easily addressable) . The application looked in memory to see if the transaction amount was above the default limit. If so it was okay. This occured before it read any data or got into the particular card agreement(they were a service provider to CC companies). If transaction input got higher than the rate of service they'd zap the value up. Effectively upping their ability to process transactions. Not sure if this was known to the management or their customers, sometimes systems guys, used to anyway, have tricks the business may or may not have been aware of.
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Old 11-13-2016, 12:44 AM   #25
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This was in the 80s under CICS. The application had a minimum charge amount to check variable(in CICS Shared memory so easily addressable) . The application looked in memory to see if the transaction amount was above the default limit. If so it was okay. This occured before it read any data or got into the particular card agreement(they were a service provider to CC companies). If transaction input got higher than the rate of service they'd zap the value up. Effectively upping their ability to process transactions. Not sure if this was known to the management or their customers, sometimes systems guys, used to anyway, have tricks the business may or may not have been aware of.
Understand. Things were different in the 80's. There were many more constraints to work around and more risk was taken. There is always a balance of taking more risk vs do we do it perfectly with absolutely no risk to the organization at the expense of doing fewer transactions per second or rejecting some that we could authorize with a high degree of safety (and thus pissing off the cardholder).., I think that is one of the aspects that made the work more interesting. Some people just could not "get it" -- the variable part of it -- some saw everything in black and white.

When you are a cardholder at a card reader terminal, you think in terms of "why does this take so long?" (perhaps a very few seconds).

If you are on the other end you are just looking at hundreds or sometimes thousands of authorizations per second.

I have a 32 year CICS history.
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Old 11-13-2016, 11:11 AM   #26
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I have a 32 year CICS history.
And here I'd thought I'd left it all behind me. Only on E-R Forum can a discussion about credit card fraud lead to CICS.
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Old 11-13-2016, 01:40 PM   #27
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That is interesting. Is there any possibility of the crook not being paid if the charge is still in "pending" status ? Its one of the best features of instant text messages. I get to alert the fraud departments quickly.
Probably not, although if the transaction is delayed long enough I suppose the crook might not get the product or service, as with the airline ticket. Consider how quickly even the new chip cards get processed - I'm seeing 15-30 seconds with the ones we have. That's not much time to do all the communications needed to cancel the sale so I would imagine most go through.
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Old 11-13-2016, 02:00 PM   #28
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Sometimes they're pretty sharp.
About ten years ago I had a card compromised while out of town on a trip (I'm certain it was a server in a restaurant we went to).

He bought two first class cross country airline tickets with it, worth several thousand dollars. Then he got them refunded IN CASH at the nearby airport. I assume it was done through a confederate working the airline counter. With processing errors that blatant, I would be surprised if someone didn't go to jail, not just lose his job, but I have no idea.
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Old 11-14-2016, 06:30 AM   #29
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+ million to all of the above. Two key points for/from me:

1. It's happened to me maybe six times over 20 years. PIA. But I don't bother with the alerts. EVERY time, the credit card company CALLED ME and told me about it.

2. I now keep a list handy of the dozen or so automatic payments tied to my credit card. The list includes the website URL, my username and password to log in, my account number, and maybe even some notes or instructions if there's anything oddball about using the site.

Hope this helps someone down the road.
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Old 11-15-2016, 12:47 PM   #30
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Well, I just got off the phone with Fidelity Visa. New bad charges so they cancelled the card and are sending a replacement.

This is the 4th time this year for Fido. They must be getting tired of this - I know I sure am.
Just got off the phone with Fidelity, again. The new card hasn't arrived, the old card account was closed last Thursday, but yesterday there was a new bogus charge. Like every other, it was a gas station. It took about a half hour to get through the call, the rep was confused, and the "post date" they show on my online account are incorrect.

Anyone know which bank manages this card?
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Old 11-15-2016, 12:58 PM   #31
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I go through this every 6 months or so since I use my card so much. It has become routine for me. Fidelity Visa also. Never a problem, although not with the new servicer yet.

When they tell me the replacement card will take days to get to me, I always tell them that is not acceptable and they overnight the replacements.
That sounds like me. We charge over 200 charges a month so the numbers are out there a lot of places. Online, restaurants, stores, service providers, etc....

It's just life.

I now separated my auto charges onto two separate credit cards so at least I only have to update half as many at a time.

Also, I keep a running list of all the auto charges for each card so it's easy to take care of when it happens.

I have not noticed a major difference between Chase and Cap One (our current two main providers).

Small pain but it's so common it's sort of a non-issue.
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Old 11-15-2016, 01:54 PM   #32
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Anyone know which bank manages this card?
Not exactly a bank.
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The creditor and issuer of this card is Elan Financial Services, pursuant to a license from Visa U.S.A. Inc.
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As America’s leading agent credit card issuer, Elan serves more than 1,400 financial institutions. For nearly 50 years, Elan has offered an outsourced partnership solution, providing institutions the ability to earn an on-going revenue stream with a competitive credit card program
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Old 11-15-2016, 02:02 PM   #33
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Not exactly a bank.
Thanks. I thought I might be able to look for a card from a different issuer with a better back office. Seem, though, that even with a different sponsor, there is a fair chance I'd still end up with these folks.
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Old 01-21-2017, 01:33 PM   #34
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Just got off the phone with Fidelity, again. The new card hasn't arrived, the old card account was closed last Thursday, but yesterday there was a new bogus charge. Like every other, it was a gas station. It took about a half hour to get through the call, the rep was confused, and the "post date" they show on my online account are incorrect.

Anyone know which bank manages this card?
Just got off the phone with Fidelity. Again. Old card cancelled - 3rd time in 4 months, 5th time in a year. This time it was different. They asked 16 security questions, at least I had to guess (what state did I live in when my SS card was issued?). Then they said someone had called in from Nigeria to set up a new travel authorization, and confirmed one had already been set for Spain. Ha! No charges, though.

The agent said one of the merchants we do business with clearly has been compromised. Glad they figured that part out.
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Old 01-21-2017, 02:12 PM   #35
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Just got off the phone with Fidelity. Again. Old card cancelled - 3rd time in 4 months, 5th time in a year. This time it was different. They asked 16 security questions, at least I had to guess (what state did I live in when my SS card was issued?). Then they said someone had called in from Nigeria to set up a new travel authorization, and confirmed one had already been set for Spain. Ha! No charges, though.

The agent said one of the merchants we do business with clearly has been compromised. Glad they figured that part out.
Wow - holy cow!

Well - this has been really serious. A merchant you use regularly. Definitely some organization behind this.

Fortunately I have never run into this scenario of having the same credit card issued and compromised over and over again.

Krebs on Security might find this interesting? He usually gets interested if a given merchant gets compromised over and over again or if a breach is localized somehow.
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Old 01-21-2017, 02:53 PM   #36
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Wow - holy cow!

Well - this has been really serious. A merchant you use regularly. Definitely some organization behind this.

Fortunately I have never run into this scenario of having the same credit card issued and compromised over and over again.

Krebs on Security might find this interesting? He usually gets interested if a given merchant gets compromised over and over again or if a breach is localized somehow.
I know. This is probably related to all the businesses that have been hacked over the past 3 years, especially Anthem BCBS, which gave up address and SS#. I'm going to look into Krebs.

They won't share any info on the breech, so I'm in the uncomfortable position of not being able to do much. Time to check reports. It'll never happen, but I can still wish - full no-charge credit report access and management needs to be given to everyone. The businesses fail in their security and we pay.
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Old 01-22-2017, 11:37 AM   #37
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BTW, when I do a travel notice online, I usually get an email from the institution letting me know that a travel notice was set on my account. I'm pretty sure Elan (Fidelity VISA) has done this for me. Now if someone called in a travel notice and had the credentials to get through, I'm not sure if I would get an email.
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Old 01-22-2017, 11:42 AM   #38
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Just got off the phone with Fidelity. Again. Old card cancelled - 3rd time in 4 months, 5th time in a year. This time it was different. They asked 16 security questions, at least I had to guess (what state did I live in when my SS card was issued?). Then they said someone had called in from Nigeria to set up a new travel authorization, and confirmed one had already been set for Spain. Ha! No charges, though.

The agent said one of the merchants we do business with clearly has been compromised. Glad they figured that part out.
While you need to answer 16 security questions, the bad guys have no trouble repeatedly stealing your card. That is almost funny. Sorry this keeps happening to you!
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Old 01-22-2017, 11:47 AM   #39
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A few years ago we had thousands of dollars , over seven thousand dollars charged on Discover . Now this is a true story and weird as it gets . We got a new card and it happened again . We lived in Houston but the charges were made in Corpus Christi . We did not have to pay nothing

About a year later we get a big brown envelope in the mail from the Ohio State attorney general's office with documents for a written deposition . It seems an inside person at Discover was giving credit card numbers out . The funniest thing we could have went to the trial but we declined the name of the person was African Nigerian !
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Old 05-27-2017, 03:16 PM   #40
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Excitement on Tuesday - those handy text alerts:
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Fidelity Credit Card: Your account ending in 0365 was charged $5000.00 at CAEE. Msg&Data rates may apply. Reply STOP to cancel.
Whoa! By the time I had reached Elan they told me the charge had already been blocked and new cards would be at my house in two days.

It's actually been a few years since I've had a credit card compromised - even longer for mine specifically as the last couple were "group" compromises. So for me at least they are getting better at this.
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