Frugal isn't a bad word - it is a blessing. IMHO

[Just_Steve]

It's not clear what you mean by that.

Most folks define living below your means as finding a way to live so that you spend less than you earn in order to save.

Most folks define living above your means as living such that you borrow money to spend more than your income.

So are you saying you spend exactly what you earn? You don't borrow, but you don't save either?

I'm retired and I get checks every two weeks, sometimes I spend it all sometimes I don't and I don't care because in two weeks there will be more.
The weeks I don't spend it all the rest goes into savings, the weeks I do spend it all, oh well.

 

[kcowan]

Good point - Some of my least favorite hotels when traveling on business for my mega used to be the ones where every time you leave the room for 5 minutes, someone goes in and fluffs your pillows or puts a piece of chocolate on your desk. I know it is considered great customer service by many, but to me, this always seemed so over the top to the point of creepy...

We were at a place in Laguna Nigel on a company boondoggle and they followed us in the lobby to puff up the cushions wherever we sat. I vowed never to go to one of those on my own nickle!

For example, if you agree to go out to dinner with others pay your share or pick up the next bill. Or what about picking up the first bill not even knowing if there will be a second!?

Our ROMEO group who goes out for breakfast occasionally has someone volunteer to pay the whole shot. (100 pesos per person) We graciously accept it but usually the person is about to return home so we cannot return the favour this year.

In my father's case he would hold very large labor day and memorial day parties with 50-80 people showing up (most empty handed). He did this for years, and eventually he noticed a pattern. 1)The same people showed up empty handed. 2)The reciprocity of others seemed completely out of wack. Finally he stopped when he hit his late 60's, though he had long found invitations "forgotten" to be sent to him.

My cousin was in that category. He just enjoyed giving. When he died at 74, 650 people showed up for his funeral. It was a record. The good will that he had generated was amazing. I consider that an object lesson about giving. You never see the appreciation even though it is there.

I remember building a deck at my aunt's house with help from 1 of her 2 sons and my brother. The son that didn't help spent the day in the house doing nothing while the son that did help was more than willing to return the favour by helping me with a project of my own later that summer. A few years later the lazy son was now in his own house and needed a new roof and since I'm the "roofer" in the family, he looked to me for some help. I refused so he had to hire a roofing crew. Being cheap with his labour that one day a few years earlier cost him $3000.

"What goes around, comes around!"

From Webster's.
"careful about spending money or using things when you do not need to"

My family was guilty of the latter. "Geez Dad why not get a new one!" Some of the things he used had been repaired so often, I felt like saying it but never did out of respect!

(I consider dust busters as disposable since FI. OTOH our cordless phones have been kept going for over 10 years (5 handsets in a large house)!)

 

[Nemo2]

We were at a place in Laguna Nigel on a company boondoggle and they followed us in the lobby to puff up the cushions wherever we sat. I vowed never to go to one of those on my own nickle!

On ships we tell our cabin stewards not to bother turning down the bed at night......if we want the ***** bed turned down we'll do it ourselves, and they work hard enough as it is.

(On the last trip our steward was concerned that her boss might question her as to why she hadn't done it, so we agreed to leave the 'Do Not Disturb' sign up at all times, except when we wanted the cabin made up.)

 

[iloveyoga]

I take back my bottles for the 5 cent deposit. I just can't stand to put them in our recycle can. I like to make homemade soup that is good for several tasty meals at a very low cost.

On the flip side, when I travel I don't worry about what I spend within reasonable standards (my view anyway).

 

[kcowan]

On ships we tell our cabin stewards not to bother turning down the bed at night......if we want the ***** bed turned down we'll do it ourselves, and they work hard enough as it is.

We let them do it for the chocolates!

 

[kcowan]

I take back my bottles for the 5 cent deposit.

Our bottles get recycled by the "binners".

 

[joeea]

I'm retired and I get checks every two weeks, sometimes I spend it all sometimes I don't and I don't care because in two weeks there will be more.
The weeks I don't spend it all the rest goes into savings, the weeks I do spend it all, oh well.

Sounds like a perfectly reasonable way to live, provided it makes you happy and you can still achieve your goals this way. Bravo!

If you said that you often spend more than you make, but that you are confident you have sufficient assets to carry you through your life and still leave whatever legacy you plan to (if any), I would say "bravo" as well.

And if you said that you spend what you want and are happy but still find that you end up with extra money that you save each month, I would again say "bravo".

It's not the specific amounts or the "above your means", "below you means" or "at your means" that matters. The only important thing is if you can be happy and still achieve you goals or not.

 

[kcowan]

As exnavy said, it's being responsible with money that is important. I stay away from "cheap" people although not surprisingly, they seem to like hanging out with me.

One of our best friends is cheap but he has a great personality and brings us great pleasure. We adjust our spending to match his when we go out. We share an airbnb condo in Nice. We cook in and eat out. Both his cars are newer than both our cars.

We say he is careful and manages to a tight budget.

 

[Scuba]

I think we have issues with squishy terminology here. Words like "frugal" and "financial independence" seem to mean different things to different people.



I would say you aren't financially independent until you can live the lifestyle you want without having to worry about funding it. So I don't understand how you could have reached FI 3-5 years before that.



Everyone can be financially independent today if they are willing to live a lifestyle they don't want.

Good point. What I meant was the retirement calculators said we could RE and fund the lifestyle we wanted before we actually did it. We worked another 3+ years to build up a bigger cushion and help offset risk of things turning out differently than we planned.

 

[CaptTom]

I would say you aren't financially independent until you can live the lifestyle you want without having to worry about funding it.

I like that definition. I RE'd but don't consider myself FI. I do have to watch my spending to stay within my reduced budget. But I wouldn't trade my time for more money by going back to w*rk.

 

[Music Lover]

I think we have issues with squishy terminology here. Words like "frugal" and "financial independence" seem to mean different things to different people.

Yes, I've noticed that. The words "frugal" and "cheap" seem to come up a lot in comparison, but they have entirely different meanings to me.

I would say you aren't financially independent until you can live the lifestyle you want without having to worry about funding it. So I don't understand how you could have reached FI 3-5 years before that.

Everyone can be financially independent today if they are willing to live a lifestyle they don't want.

For many people who only made a modest income, some of them may never live the lifestyle they truly "want", however, being comfortable with no financial worries is often good enough.

 

[Nemo2]

being comfortable with no financial worries is often good enough.

+1

DW & I are likely among the 'poorest' here, (we don't consider ourselves 'poor'....although we admit to doing double takes when there are posters who say "I have $20 billion, can I retire?"), and we are happy with our lives.

Were our assets to increase tenfold I doubt that we'd make many changes, especially in the way we travel, since we are very comfortable with that.

 

[kcowan]

DW & I are likely among the 'poorest' here, (we don't consider ourselves 'poor'....although we admit to doing double takes when there are posters who say "I have $20 billion, can I retire?"), and we are happy with our lives.

I understand hyperbole but the most often question is "I have $2 million, can I retire?"

Were our assets to increase tenfold I doubt that we'd make many changes, especially in the way we travel, since we are very comfortable with that.

I think a useful exercise for anyone without a solid gold DB pension is "What would we give up if the stash declined by 20%, 50%, ..."

In our case, we would give up our Canadian residence which would slash every expense but health care.

 

[Nemo2]

I understand hyperbole but the most often question is "I have $2 million, can I retire?"

Hyperbole, yes......but I have seen posters with substantially more than that who appear to be insecure and/or unaware of their ability to sever the chains of employment.

I think a useful exercise for anyone without a solid gold DB pension is "What would we give up if the stash declined by 20%, 50%, ..."

In our case, we would give up our Canadian residence which would slash every expense but health care.

We'd likely forego all/most travel while we recalibrate.

 

[Music Lover]

DW & I are likely among the 'poorest' here, (we don't consider ourselves 'poor'....although we admit to doing double takes when there are posters who say "I have $20 billion, can I retire?"), and we are happy with our lives.

I'm also among the "poorest" here...but with a paid off house, a COLA pension, and a low expense lifestyle I honestly feel like I've won the lottery. The one hobby that I really enjoy (playing music) is virtually free...well, after the modest initial instrument expense.

Of course, if I was into large boats, high end cars, or extensive travel, then my income might not be sufficient.

 

[MichaelB]

Hyperbole, yes......but I have seen posters with substantially more than that who appear to be insecure and/or unaware of their ability to sever the chains of employment.

I think a useful exercise for anyone without a solid gold DB pension is "What would we give up if the stash declined by 20%, 50%, ..."

That "what if" is really one of the more useful benefits of a discussion here. We do not always appreciate just how well we understand the framing and analysis of retirement financial planning. The guy with the $2M may have a nice portfolio but he has no idea how to break it down and test it. The question she asks is "do I have enough" but what she really means is "how do I know how much is enough and how do I plan for contingencies?".

 

[dtbach]

I like to think that I'm "frugal" but I'm not nearly as frugal as when we were younger and in the saving mode. Perhaps there is a range of frugal as in "we can live on rice and beans" vs "lets grill steak at home instead of going to the restaurant".

We used to be in the former category, now into the later with occasional trips to "gasp" a restaurant.

 

[Winemaker]

Over the 35+ years of slaving, I car-pooled with others several times, they always wanted to leave 30 minutes earlier than I would go by myself. They all stopped at a 7-11 type store for a soft drink, chips, and/or candy bar. I even know of a boss who stopped for at least 1 serving of sauteed garlic escargot on the way home.
In October, I will start my 4th year of retirement... well, the others are still plugging along, stopping for their drinks and snacks, I'm sure.

 

[GTFan]

Yes, I've noticed that. The words "frugal" and "cheap" seem to come up a lot in comparison, but they have entirely different meanings to me.

For many people who only made a modest income, some of them may never live the lifestyle they truly "want", however, being comfortable with no financial worries is often good enough.

Exactly, frugal and cheap are entirely different and I don't understand why they're often used interchangeably.

 

[Danmar]

Exactly, frugal and cheap are entirely different and I don't understand why they're often used interchangeably.

Agree. Except that, I think some people use "frugal" because they are trying to be nice or polite but really mean "cheap". I think we all know the difference.

 

[kcowan]

Over the 35+ years of slaving, I car-pooled with others several times, they always wanted to leave 30 minutes earlier than I would go by myself. They all stopped at a 7-11 type store for a soft drink, chips, and/or candy bar. I even know of a boss who stopped for at least 1 serving of sauteed garlic escargot on the way home.
In October, I will start my 4th year of retirement... well, the others are still plugging along, stopping for their drinks and snacks, I'm sure.

It was the prepaid Starbucks card that got DW into being conscious of such spending. She would use the $20 for 2 or 3 trips and then said let's buy a coffee machine and quite the muffin habit!

I was never in that habit. Possibly allowed me to have a second wife and early retirement.

 

[W2R]

I think a useful exercise for anyone without a solid gold DB pension is "What would we give up if the stash declined by 20%, 50%, ..."

In our case, we would give up our Canadian residence which would slash every expense but health care.

I just tried this little exercise, which was fun (thanks!). Not having two homes, I looked at other options in the event that my stash declined by 50%.

I discovered that I'd need to increase my WR to 3.4% to spend what I normally spend. So that is not so bad. But the catch is that any future CCRC thoughts might have to be tabled forever, unless I could scrape together enough money for it by selling my house and from my usual spending money. Doesn't sound like a gold plated CCRC would ever be in my future, if my stash declined by 50%. Maybe I could afford a cheaper one with abusive help, stale food, and so on.

Of course I am hoping that "Plan A" (aging in place) works out and that I don't need "Plan B" (a CCRC).

 

[Danmar]

My stash did decline by 50% in 2008/2009. But since I was only spending dividends and these were hardly cut, there was no problem. Of course did cut back on some discretionary things like travel for a few months.

 

[NW-Bound]

... cut back on some discretionary things like travel for a few months.

Only a few months?

My rest periods between travels are longer than that, even during bull markets. Loving travel as we do, we do get tired and need to be home for a while.

 

[NW-Bound]

I like to think that I'm "frugal" but I'm not nearly as frugal as when we were younger and in the saving mode. Perhaps there is a range of frugal as in "we can live on rice and beans" vs "lets grill steak at home instead of going to the restaurant".

We used to be in the former category, now into the later with occasional trips to "gasp" a restaurant.

When I eat out, I like nicer restaurants. I also like to include my children and son-in-law, and sometimes my nieces and their husbands. When multiply the number of people by $75 a head, it hurts my wallet too much. So, I entertain them at home. Maybe when the Dow gets to 40,000.

Talk about food, even when I was younger, we never skimped on food. Food in the US is fairly inexpensive compared to other stuff like fancy cars and toys. Even in my 20s, I drank French Cognac, although it was the lower VS and VSOP grades. It was only later that I did an upgrade to XO. Never could order a shot of XO in a restaurant: I would be afraid to ask what they charge.