Frugal living: when is it bizarre?

[Nords]

I don't know if this qualifies as frugal or just crazy.
Of course, occasionally something in one of the jars has come in handy, which just reinforces the "you never know when you might need one of these" attitude.
I gave up letting it bother me.

HGTV and Oprah do a lot of "overaccumulation" stories. The worst cases of hoarding usually involve a psychological trauma or syndrome that requires significant counseling to overcome. It can also be an effect of aging-- when my grandfather went into dementia, no paper (other than toilet paper) left his two-bedroom apartment for over four years. Save a week's worth of junk mail & newspapers and then multiply by about 200.

But you've also described the business models of "Antiques Roadshow" and "Restoration Hardware"...

 

[gettingthere]

The worst cases of hoarding usually involve a psychological trauma or syndrome that requires significant counseling to overcome. It can also be an effect of aging--...

But you've also described the business models of "Antiques Roadshow" and "Restoration Hardware"...

Well, I don't think it's aging - this stuff has been accumulating for at least my whole life, It's nothing that began in her latter years.

She did grow up during the Great Depression, so maybe that was traumatic enough to trigger this.

If Antiques Roadshow should ever come to town, maybe I can rent a truck, haul it all there for an appraisal, and accidentally leave it in their parking lot?

Or, better yet, " Those skeleton keys are quite rare! Let's see, you've got 27 of them. At $18,000 to $25,000 apiece....."

 

[retiringby50]

My frugality was influenced by my parents and my experience. They were immigrants here and had a business, but it really only did well enough to pay the bills, but it still was better than earning minimum wage. Yet we never went on vacation as a family because someone had to watch the business. We didn't have a TV until 1977 because they never had time to watch TV. I was always wearing sad looking clothes... so I could have gone the other way... and I did for a while because I was earning money and living w/my parents with no need to save up money... and one day I got this $600 credit card bill which to me is like someone else getting a $15,000 credit card bill. I stopped spending and set aside money each month to pay it off in 4 months... and I've paid my bill in full ever since. I was in college at the time and earning about $300/month working part-time, so the bill was 2x my monthly pay!

I am more frugal than my DH; I'm sure he thinks I'm crazy sometimes. My daughter is sleeping on a mattress that is about 15 years old... I got this mattress because I wrote to Simmons to complain about feeling many of the springs on the original mattress. It was still under warranty, so they gave me this mattress in return... in the early 1990's. DD was about 9 when this happened: she had a nice comforter and several blankets, but DH wanted her to have a goose down comforter... granted it was mega on sale at Kohl's... $35 and include a couple of down pillow. I wouldn't buy it because she didn't NEED it, but he bought it anyway. Yeah, it's good to have an alternate comforter, I guess, but I was really mad at the time.

DD's room in the first house was beige with no decorations. When she was 2, we moved here, and her room is still beige. I'm sure she'd like a cute room, but it's less the money, but more the time. In fact, we bought the paint. We just haven't painted.

 

[sailor]

I rather spend on our vacation and traveling instead and we did quite a bit before kids, but a bit less with DD who's not flexible. But I'm looking forward to our future vacation.

I'm curious about not being flexible.
While traveling with kids requires probably 4 times as much energy as before, we still like to travel together. We just need to cater to their interests, not only to ours.

sailor,
posting from a short, 7 weeks vacation in Europe, with DW and two small kids in tow.

 

[aida2003]

I'm curious about not being flexible.
While traveling with kids requires probably 4 times as much energy as before, we still like to travel together. We just need to cater to their interests, not only to ours.

sailor,
posting from a short, 7 weeks vacation in Europe, with DW and two small kids in tow.

When I said DD not being flexible, in my mind I was comparing my DD to my manager's kids. My manager's kids are just HAPPY to sit in the car seats and our DD HATES being buckled up, so she screams, cries and whines. The longest she can sit quiet would be 20 min max. Entertaining is not really helpful (well, maybe she'll be distracted for 10min). And I refuse to buy a DVD player for the car. Since she isn't into watching TV, I assume DVD player will not help. But I do sit with her in the back and I do everything I can think of to entertain her.... Anyway, what I hope for is when she has a brother, they'll be able to entertain each other and our traveling will become easier .

I'd be curious what you visited in Europe with your little kids (how old are they?) and which places were very child-friendly. Our dream plan is different. Since both sets of grandparents live there (two different countries) we might drop kids off at their homes and we'd take a short trip or two in a different direction .

 

[PBAT]

Aida,
DD used to be the same way. Starting when she was about 2, I put a bag on the seat next to her with small toys/books/paper pad and crayons, so she could reach them herself. Keeps her occupied for hours! Especially if some of the items are new to her - kids books $.10-.25 at the thrift store!

 

[Keim]

Here is a great example of frugality:
They saved almost ALL of their kids babyclothes and toys. Over 30 years later when we had kids, they packed up a trailer and hauled it over to us. Filled the better part of my storage room.

My wife and I are of like mind. We used it all. Picture my daughter in 2002 crawling around in groovy early 70s clothing, and playing with vintage fisher price toys...

 

[bongo2]

if you will check the link, current tax rates for median and half median incomes are as low as they have ever been, and even those at twice the median income are not much above 1955 levels.

That is an interesting table. You have to wonder about it's accuracy, though, when they clearly forgot the phase-out of the child tax credit for the last few years, which raises the marginal tax rate from 25% to 30% in 2006.

 

[bongo2]

Also: don't forget FICA, 15.3% today and 3% in 1955. Combined median average rate would be ~20% today and ~9% in 1955. Top looks like ~24% in 1990.

 

[aida2003]

Aida,
DD used to be the same way. Starting when she was about 2, I put a bag on the seat next to her with small toys/books/paper pad and crayons, so she could reach them herself. Keeps her occupied for hours! Especially if some of the items are new to her - kids books $.10-.25 at the thrift store!

Yes, this method kind of helped us a little bit on the airplane when we traveled to/from Europe. But the best distraction was playing with water: washing her table-tray and her seat... until her (leather) seat got very wet and a stewardess warned that there're electronics beneath the seat.

 

[aida2003]

Here is a great example of frugality:
They saved almost ALL of their kids babyclothes and toys. Over 30 years later when we had kids, they packed up a trailer and hauled it over to us. Filled the better part of my storage room.

My in-laws saved toys and a few shirts. The wooden German toys are so cute and almost 40 years old.

 

[free4now]

I find that edibility of food is the prime area that I run into trouble with people thinking me bizarre. After having travelled overseas in places without refrigeration, I am comfortable eating leftovers that have been sitting out for a day or so. I'll get a doggie bag at a restaurant and eat my leftovers the next day while travelling. But many people used to refrigerators get very uncomfortable with that, so I've learned to be discreet and only engage in such behavior with people that know me well.

 

[CaseInPoint]

I think there is a tremendous pressure to conform in the US to societal/cultural norms and using a word like "bizarre" with a negative connotation -- rather than "different from me", which isn't as negative -- is usually an effort to enforce conformity in order for the person using the word to not have to think about anything as uncomfortable and involving effort as non-conformity.

Well... There's obviously a big difference between being just "different" and being bizarre.

 

[Sarah in SC]

I find that edibility of food is the prime area that I run into trouble with people thinking me bizarre. After having travelled overseas in places without refrigeration, I am comfortable eating leftovers that have been sitting out for a day or so. I'll get a doggie bag at a restaurant and eat my leftovers the next day while travelling. But many people used to refrigerators get very uncomfortable with that, so I've learned to be discreet and only engage in such behavior with people that know me well.

When we lived on the boat, we didn't have anything but a lukewarm icebox, so got used to this. I can tell you that a friend still talks incredulously about our keeping mayo unrefrigerated. It is of course fine (before being mixed with other stuff) as are eggs, hard cheese, etc. but the US belief that everything must go into the fridge must be a vast marketing conspiracy of the folks selling those ginormous models.

 

[CaseInPoint]

This is all about perspective IMHO. After seeing families living in their one room hand built grass/bamboo/wood huts, all the furor about decorating a McMansion seems beyond bizarre to me. And depending on what part of the world, many of the hut people are in general happier and healthier than your average overstressed desk jockey here. I'm thinking parts of the Yucatan and the South Pacific specifically.

Just picking up on the overstressed American desk jockey, it makes me wonder who has more stress: Sure, working people do have job-related stress. But, it seems to me that many people who are retired early have enormous amounts of financial stress, and no immediate way of solving their financial problems (unless, of course, they return to being desk jockeys...)

So what good is ER when it entails being constantly stressed about money, and using the term "frugal" to refer to their living on the edge of poverty? Seems to me that many ER people have only exchanged one form of stress for another -- possibly worse -- source of stress.

 

[haha]

So what good is ER when it entails being constantly stressed about money, and using the term "frugal" to refer to their living on the edge of poverty? Seems to me that many ER people have only exchanged one form of stress for another -- possibly worse -- source of stress.

Hey fella, whose Emperor you calling naked?

You some kind of pinko-commie-hippie- nonconformist?

Ha

 

[Finance Dave]

When do you think frugality becomes bizarre? Any real life examples?

My dad buys Kleenex in the rectangular box to "refill" the Kleenex in his square box because the rectangular boxes are less expensive per tissue.

 

[jclarksnakes]

My brother in law's father did fairly well running his own business and is now retired with no financial worries. He brags that in his entire life he never bought a new car (which I think is commendable) or a new tire (which I think is bizarre). BIL says that he remembers many times his dad would stop at gas stations to look thru the rack of used tires and often bought the most worn and cheapest ones. Some tires would last less than a month before he needed to replace them.
Jeff

 

[CaseInPoint]

Hey fella, whose Emperor you calling naked?

You some kind of pinko-commie-hippie- nonconformist?

Ha

Oh, yeah... Wouldn't want to confuse anyone with... facts.

 

[sailor]

When I said DD not being flexible, in my mind I was comparing my DD to my manager's kids. My manager's kids are just HAPPY to sit in the car seats and our DD HATES being buckled up, so she screams, cries and whines.

DS at 1y.o. behaved same way.
When we had only one kid we traveled around his nap times and doing longer distance driving in the evening. We joke that one of our 2005 vacations was a "2005 Ireland playground tour".

I'd be curious what you visited in Europe with your little kids (how old are they?) and which places were very child-friendly.

Our kids are 3.5 and 1.5 now.
With kids in Europe we visited Ireland, Greece, Amsterdam, Paris & UK (2005 till 2007).
We are staying two more weeks in Krakow (Poland) and heading to UK for our last week.
Also as far as strapping kids into the seats I have not had them strapped for probably last 3 weeks - while we have a car here I mostly use public transport or a bicycle with child carrier. My kids love street cars and trains & prefer a bicycle vs. a car ride.
As far as child-friendly I would say all of these places have been moderately child friendly (people attitude is great, but I rate only moderately because of smokers everywhere).

 

[cjking]

Yikes! Cheap minds think alike! I've had this Nobel-prize-winning idea for years: We should make cars with detachable butt-ends (giant zippers right behind the front seat - 3 wheels on the front half, 2 on the back), so that you can leave the entire back seat and trunk at home when you don't need it.

Seriously, we can't apparently convince ourselves to drive smaller cars or car pool, but who would haul along the derierra of their car if they didn't need to? And, if you have a Big Car Ego, you'd still have bragging rights ... "You should see my back end! I don't use it much, but it's HUGE!"

Stay Cheap!
-Jeff Yeager

The Smart car is a 2-seater car that has about the same length as a motorcycle. (There is no back seat.) I like the funky styling, I like the fact that the body panels are plastic and can be easily replaced when damaged (of if you want to change the colour of the car) and would like to own an electric version of it. There is an electric version on the way, but it doesn't use the latest electric technology, so won't have the performance and the range that would come with using wheel-motors and Altair-Nano batteries. However if it was offered with that technology, it would still have the shortcoming of not being able to transport 5 adults and some luggage, which I need to do a handful of times each year. The other day it occurred to me that the solution would be a closely coupled trailer with a single bench seat, 2 doors, a capacious trunk and an intercom system to communicate with the front. The trailer would be in the same funcky styling and when in use the overall six wheeled vehicle would work like one of those buses with an articulated section, what we in London call "bendy buses."

It wouldn't be necessary to own the trailer, you would just hire it on the handful of occasions you needed it. The Smart car comes in a limited range of colours, so for those who like things to match, looking good wouldn't be difficult to arrange.

 

[TromboneAl]

Yikes! Cheap minds think alike! I've had this Nobel-prize-winning idea for years: We should make cars with detachable butt-ends (giant zippers right behind the front seat - 3 wheels on the front half, 2 on the back), so that you can leave the entire back seat and trunk at home when you don't need it.

And you could call it a

"Trailer."

Ha ha, just kidding. I'm going to see how easily my rear seats would come out.

 

[ERD50]

Here's another twist on that idea. It's been around a long while:



-ERD50

 

[al_bundy]

The Smart car is a 2-seater car that has about the same length as a motorcycle. (There is no back seat.) I like the funky styling, I like the fact that the body panels are plastic and can be easily replaced when damaged (of if you want to change the colour of the car) and would like to own an electric version of it. There is an electric version on the way, but it doesn't use the latest electric technology, so won't have the performance and the range that would come with using wheel-motors and Altair-Nano batteries. However if it was offered with that technology, it would still have the shortcoming of not being able to transport 5 adults and some luggage, which I need to do a handful of times each year. The other day it occurred to me that the solution would be a closely coupled trailer with a single bench seat, 2 doors, a capacious trunk and an intercom system to communicate with the front. The trailer would be in the same funcky styling and when in use the overall six wheeled vehicle would work like one of those buses with an articulated section, what we in London call "bendy buses."

It wouldn't be necessary to own the trailer, you would just hire it on the handful of occasions you needed it. The Smart car comes in a limited range of colours, so for those who like things to match, looking good wouldn't be difficult to arrange.

i saw them in italy over 10 years ago

they are OK if you are single, but even with 1 child they are way too small

i'm actually surprised they made it to the US. we used to joke that they were death traps

 

[al_bundy]

the number of factual errors in this post are too numerous to count. However, if you will check the link, current tax rates for median and half median incomes are as low as they have ever been, and even those at twice the median income are not much above 1955 levels. All tax rates have fallen since the mid-1980s.

Historical Federal Income Tax Rates for Family of Four

I love it when Americans, pretty much the least-taxed population in the industrial world, bitch about taxes. But then again, the country was founded on tax rebellion. And yes, I am an American taxpayer.

federal taxes are low, but local property taxes are off the charts in a lot of places to pay for insane retirement benefits

NYC you can get away with $3000 a year in taxes. in most NYC suburbs you will pay at least $6000 a year in taxes. in NJ an OK house in a halfway decent town will cost closer to $10,000 a year in taxes

to compare, my wife and i looked at new Toll Brothers homes north of denver a few years back. $5000 a year in taxes for a $550,000 home that is over 2000 square feet with all the amenities