Getting Cash Quickly To Executors

[haha]

My main question is this- what is a good, secure way to make cash immediately available to one's executors after his death?

It can take an incredible amount of time to get death certificates, especially if the guy died out of state. Meanwhile some bills need to be be paid to conserve the estate.

Would a joint savings account with the executors work? Will they be able to access a joint account without death certificates?

If a will and a listing of assets are kept in the decedents safe deposit box, can joint holders get to it before they have death certificates?

My main estate plan (unless low exemptions to the estate tax are enacted) is beneficiary designations. But I will have assorted personal property like my car etc, and I want to leave some fast cash too so I suppose there will need to be a probate. I can check what WA small estate rules are. I won't have any debt other than what I might happen to have on my transaction credit cards whenever I kick, and I suppose some final medical expenses unless I just die abruptly because some 20 year old took me to bed.

As I mentioned in another thread, these issues have been brought home to me by a brother's passing, and I do not want to leave such a difficult situation for my family members.

Ha

 

[nwsteve]

HaHa
When my Mom passed, it worked really well to have me on her checking account as a joint owner. There were absolutely no issues with accessing her funds. She had a nasty habit of forgetting to balance her checking account so I had some money in a linked saving account that was also accessible.

Nwsteve

 

[calmloki]

Same deal - joint owner on my Mom's checking account which made it a total non-event when she died - it was my account to add to, draw down, or close as I saw fit. It was also a taxable non-event. Consult your tax pro, but I treated it as not a part of the estate if I remember - I was a joint owner of an undivided undetermined amount of the checking account before and sole owner after her death. Same on her car, though when I got rid of the car I had to take in the death certificate. Don't know that you can make someone a joint owner without the bank having their signature on hand, so there is some risk if you have any concern about the other joint owner siphoning your assets.

 

[cnb46]

My widowed father kept me completely informed and up-to-date on his finances over the last 15 years or so of his life (including balance sheets as long-term care for my mother drew down savings/CDs). I had copies of pre-paid cremation plans, notes for obituaries for both of them, medical power of attorney and copies of his will. Both our names were on one of his checking accounts and I had a key to his safe deposit box. He also introduced me to the officers of his primary bank, and to his lawyer. Since he lived 500 miles away, all this was invaluable information.

Being executor was certainly not fun, but it was very straightforward, since I had so much information at my fingertips or easily accessible in his desk and file cabinet. Helped that he worked for an insurance co. all his life, was a child of the Depression (no exotic investments, etc.), and kept his very sharp wits about him until he died of pnemonia at age 92.

 

[haha]

Thanks for the responses.

Calmloki- no worries about losses, my two sons are not as well organized as I am, but they are ethically probably higher grade than I am.

Ha

 

[calmloki]

Thanks for the responses.

Calmloki- no worries about losses, my two sons are not as well organized as I am, but they are ethically probably higher grade than I am.

Ha

Always good when there are no worries that way and sad when there are.

 

[Moemg]

As I remember death certificates were easy to come by . The funeral home asked me how many I wanted and they were there in two days . Always get more than you think you need especially the long form .

 

[Goonie]

HaHa
When my Mom passed, it worked really well to have me on her checking account as a joint owner. There were absolutely no issues with accessing her funds.......

Same deal - joint owner on my Mom's checking account which made it a total non-event when she died - it was my account to add to, draw down, or close as I saw fit. It was also a taxable non-event......

I'm in the same boat. I'm listed as joint owner on all of my Mom's accounts....checking, savings, CDs, etc. (both 'brick & mortar', and online) I'm also listed as joint owner of her (our) lock box. I also do my banking with the same banks, so the bank officials and I are well acquainted already. So everything will keep running as smooth as silk after she passes away.

My Grandad had the same arrangement set up with my Dad as joint owner, and everything flowed extremely smoothly at Grandad's passing.

As I remember death certificates were easy to come by . The funeral home asked me how many I wanted and they were there in two days . Always get more than you think you need especially the long form .

Ditto!!! It's better to have too many and not need them, than to have too few and have to wait to get more copies. It's not a major hassle...but during the difficult time of having to deal with a loved one's death, ANY hassle that can be avoided, should be avoided, no matter how small or insignificant it may seem....every little bit helps. Been there, done that.

 

[happy2bretired]

I have some CDs set up as POD (pay on death) with my daughter's name. I think they just become hers after my death. I'm hoping that those CDs can be used for expenses that come up before the estate is settled. I have to be dead before she can get the $$. I probably should check the saving and checking account too.

 

[Animorph]

Perhaps more towards the next generation, giving the executor the ID's and passwords to online accounts would have nearly the same effect as a joint account. Not quite as explicit though...

 

[calmloki]

Perhaps more towards the next generation, giving the executor the ID's and passwords to online accounts would have nearly the same effect as a joint account. Not quite as explicit though...

Think there might be some IRS issues with that as well as potential fraud concerns - are you thinking the executor could have a payment made to him/her from the deceased's account via the executor signing on as the deceased?

 

[REWahoo]

My recently expired FIL, also a child of the Depression, approached the problem by burying several thousand dollars worth of cash in the floor of his barn. Thankfully he told all of us, "If anything ever happens to me, be sure you dig around that second post out in the barn."

It worked, but I don't recommend it. The other advice given here offers much better solutions.

 

[Brat]

I don't think co-ownership of a checking account is a good idea at all. That is what one of my grandmothers did, one of her daughters was co-owner and the other siblings understood that this was for convenience only. When granny died her lawyer son-in-law told her that the account holdings where hers alone and she kept it all. It took YEARS before that episode was forgiven.

Create a revocable living trust, open a checking account in the trust's name. The trust should authorize the grantor trustee and other named trustees to pay bills of the grantor. Include all the trustees on the signature card. That is what we did with my mother who suffered a long period of incapacity and it worked great. The trust can also own investment accounts (but not IRAs). Don't tell the bank that the grantor has passed until you have obtained a tax ID number for the trust (at which time they will create another account and move the $).

There is software today that will create a basic revocable living trust for a modest fee but frankly I would use a lawyer and have that person also prepare a will, health care power of attorney, and health care advance directive (sometimes called a living will). Other types of power of attorneys are a pita, much easier to put all assets in the revocable living trust.

 

[nwsteve]

I have some CDs set up as POD (pay on death) with my daughter's name. I think they just become hers after my death. I'm hoping that those CDs can be used for expenses that come up before the estate is settled.

The TOD or POD (Transfer/Pay on death) proviso on your financial accounts is great way to avoid probate and make funds available faster than a full probate. If you want immediate access to funds, they typically will not be available until a death certificate can be delivered to the bank/brokerage etc. With my Mom's Vanguard assets the process took about 30 days.
The other advantage of some funds being in a joint account is that if you are disabled (versus deceased) your family can still access some funds to cover those ongoing expenses that need attending to. Of course, a well drawn Power of Attorney can do the same thing but keep in mind it will not cover you in case of death. PoA dissolve at death of person.
Learned this when I tried to make a trade in my Mom's Vanguard account after death and was told I no longer had any rights to make any transactions. Had to wait until death certificates were able and processed by Vanguard.
Nwsteve

 

[Moemg]

My recently expired FIL, also a child of the Depression, approached the problem by burying several thousand dollars worth of cash in the floor of his barn. Thankfully he told all of us, "If anything ever happens to me, be sure you dig around that second post out in the barn."

It worked, but I don't recommend it. The other advice given here offers much better solutions.

One of my friends parents put money in the freezer wrapped and labeled chops . Unfortunately it was not discovered and thrown out with other expired food . He told them after the refrigerator cleaning had been done .

 

[youbet]

My recently expired FIL, also a child of the Depression, approached the problem by burying several thousand dollars worth of cash in the floor of his barn. Thankfully he told all of us, "If anything ever happens to me, be sure you dig around that second post out in the barn."

It worked, but I don't recommend it. The other advice given here offers much better solutions.

Why not? I have some substantial cash stashed away and DW and son know where it is "just in case." With today's interest rates, I get just about the same interest on that as I do on the cash in my MM acct!

But, for the real money, I need to do some work. If DW and I were to die together, such as in an automobile accident, DS would probably wind up having to foot some bills until insurance policies paid off (about 3 weeks per the agent) or estate matters start to settle. I'm looking at all the suggestions others have made. Once the estate settled, he'd be close to FIRE, so I suppose he'd forgive us for the inconvenience!

 

[Animorph]

Think there might be some IRS issues with that as well as potential fraud concerns - are you thinking the executor could have a payment made to him/her from the deceased's account via the executor signing on as the deceased?

I'm thinking of paying bills, but possibly paying other expenses. Most of our bills are payed through automatic billpay, for example, and would continue to be paid even if we died. Doesn't seem like any reason the few other bills we have couldn't be paid manually by an executor through the same account.

All the account fine print I've seen (and remember) states that willingly giving someone your account login info implies permission for them to access your account. Certainly it CAN be done. I don't see why the IRS would care as long as estate records were correct for taxes. On the other hand, the executor's name may not be on the account, so the extent of that permission could be in question.

 

[CuppaJoe]

My recently expired FIL, also a child of the Depression, approached the problem by burying several thousand dollars worth of cash in the floor of his barn....

My great aunt put a significant amount of cash in a candy box, marking a small portion of it with a note indicating it should go to a neighbor. Her five heirs voted to give that amount to the neighbor. For many years, I used a small version of that candy box as a piggy bank. Saw that brand in a movie the other day; it still amuses me.

 

[Martha]

As I remember death certificates were easy to come by . The funeral home asked me how many I wanted and they were there in two days . Always get more than you think you need especially the long form .

I think it depends on where you are. My husband's uncle died last year and it took almost 3 weeks to get the death certificate.

I second those who suggest a joint account. Keep in mind that the money in the account will not pass by will but go directly to the joint owner; so, if you are trying to keep distributions equal for your heirs, you might have to make some adjustments.

(If you don't want to do the trust Brat mentioned, which would avoid probate issues for everything in the trust).

 

[cnb46]

My younger brother and I were equal heirs and I was executor. We agreed that the joint checking acct (in Dad's name and mine) would be used to pay outstanding, ongoing expenses until the estate was settled, and then we'd split the remainder. I kept a strict accounting and sent copies to my brother every month or so. Obviously you need to have the same ethical outlook for this to work. Under that agreement, Dad's money paid for a lovely dinner for 14 extended family the evening before his memorial service and a great lobster feast on the harbor in Maine after the service!

 

[Urchina]

Ha,

So sorry to hear about your brother. (It may have been some time ago, but still...)

We went through this recently as well, with my FIL. Three thoughts:

Having joint owners on accounts is probably easiest. If you don't want to do the trust, I'd set up a separate account with a specified amount in it, maybe 3-5K (which would have worked for us when my FIL passed) in it, and make one or both of your sons joint owners with you. Having a separate account limits losses if one of them has an ethical breach.

If you use TOD/POD designations, please make sure it's done right. My FIL had a TOD designation to my husband on one of his accounts, and we'd been getting statements for YEARS labeled "FIL's name, TOD Husband's name." When FIL passed and DH went to get the account transferred, the bank told him "Sorry, the TOD wasn't valid because the form wasn't filled out properly X years ago. So we can't transfer the funds to you." Never mind that they had both accepted the form and labelled the money as TOD for years -- there was nothing we could do. That caused quite a bit of trouble, as cash was needed for various activities right after his death. We ended up footing the bill and are floating it until the estate settles. Ugh. I don't know how we could have avoided that one --- had a lawyer look at the TOD form beforehand? Lesson learned: Do not trust the bank to do really important things properly, even if they do them daily and SHOULD be able to take care of it.

Finally, figure out a way to avoid whatever probate you can. It's a hassle, for one, but also, it drags out the emotional grieving process so much more than we thought it would. I'd like to remember FIL for all the funny things he said and did, not spend my time thinking about him connected to bank statements, tax accountants and attorneys.

 

[Walt34]

I don't think co-ownership of a checking account is a good idea at all. That is what one of my grandmothers did, one of her daughters was co-owner and the other siblings understood that this was for convenience only. When granny died her lawyer son-in-law told her that the account holdings where hers alone and she kept it all. It took YEARS before that episode was forgiven.

That was the issue I confronted when my mother died. I was joint on her checking account, which legally meant the total was mine alone after she died. Knowing what the intent of her will was, and not being willing to create years of family resentment over what was a few thousand, I wrote a letter to the county recorder of wills that the account was joint for convenience only and I waived my right to the balance.

That way it went through probate, it was distributed according to her will, and family harmony (not to mention my integrity) was maintained.

 

[freebird5825]

I don't think co-ownership of a checking account is a good idea at all. That is what one of my grandmothers did, one of her daughters was co-owner and the other siblings understood that this was for convenience only. When granny died her lawyer son-in-law told her that the account holdings where hers alone and she kept it all. It took YEARS before that episode was forgiven.

I will chime in on this landmine. I was added to my Mom's account while she was living, along with older brother as Executor. I was designated as Alternate Executor.
After she passed, he withdrew everything without my signature and put it in an account in only his name, not a fiduciary account for the estate.
I had to get my lawyer to call his lawyer, facing the old "across state lines" situation (take special note of that fact) and use choice words like "file petition to remove Executor for improper procedures" to get it all straightened away.
As my lawyer said, "Always expect the worst when people are pickin' the bones".

 

[calmloki]

I will chime in on this landmine. I was added to my Mom's account while she was living, along with older brother as Executor and me as Alternate Executor.
After she passed, he withdrew everything without my signature and put it in an account in only his name, not a fiduciary account for the estate.
I had to get my lawyer to call his lawyer, facing the old "across state lines" situation (take special note of that fact) and use choice words like "file petition to remove Executor for improper procedures" to get it all straightened away.
As my lawyer said, "Always expect the worst when people are pickin' the bones".

Unfortunate. As executor of my Mom's estate I divvied up the estate in thirds between me and brother and sister - including the accounts and car I was joint on - that was per her intent. No problems. An Aunt that died had family suing the Uncle right into his grave over the estate. Not good. Emotions run high at that time, and after someone has died if money is all that's left it can be a grabfest.

 

[W2R]

My brother (George) had a joint checking account with my mother, and he made sure that her bills were paid from it when she was in her declining years.

He was also executor of her estate. Immediately upon her death he sent an account balance for that account to my other brother and me. Each month he sent a summary of what he had done with regards to her estate, including every single cent spent from that checking account.

He never would have been able to sleep again had he robbed her estate of even one penny. When he sent distributions from the estate, if there were an odd number of cents he even shorted himself one cent instead of shorting my other brother or me. I am so grateful to him and feel lucky to have such an honest, reliable brother.