Getting out of Russia?

[NW-Bound]

Yet, somehow, I’m not feeling their pain. My sympathies lie with the Ukrainian people.

Sure. Being stranded is nowhere as bad as being bombed.

My point is that Putin causes a lot of collateral damages if we think about it.

What if he decides to shut off the nat gas to Europe? A lot of people will freeze.

 

[captain3d]

So because you live in Russia you should suffer? How about Russian children should they suffer. Such mean spirit on this thread ...

Obviously people of Russia will suffer unless they can help change the situation.

Sadly no winners while this continues. Only different levels of suffering.

 

[Brat]

I read somewhere that there are 150K Russian tourists abroad who are now stranded with no money, their bank accounts no longer transactable with the rest of the world.

In Dominican Republic alone, there are 17,000 of them.

And there are few ways for them to get back to Russia. Will there be countries taking them in as refugees?

Man, I hate to be in their shoes. This is a real nightmare, worse than being a tourist stranded because of Covid.

IF they want to go back to Russia they could fly to China then travel on to their home community. It is also possible they could apply for refugee status, hard to know what impact that could have on their families still in Russia.

 

[jazz4cash]

I see Fidelity has scheduled ongoing webinars on the crisis. I haven’t participated but I’m considering. My impression is that the primary objective us to keep folks from freaking out with secondary goals of collective empathy and investment strategy.

 

[ivinsfan]

Obviously people of Russia will suffer unless they can help change the situation.

Sadly no winners while this continues. Only different levels of suffering.

Well I'd say the average citizen of Russia will suffer plenty and the idea that the average citizen can do anything to "help change" the situation is laughable.



I'm pretty Putin doesn't care any more about his own citizens then he cares about the Ukrainian people.

 

[ivinsfan]

IF they want to go back to Russia they could fly to China then travel on to their home community. It is also possible they could apply for refugee status, hard to know what impact that could have on their families still in Russia.

Did you miss the part about their bank accounts being frozen?

 

[NW-Bound]

IF they want to go back to Russia they could fly to China then travel on to their home community. It is also possible they could apply for refugee status, hard to know what impact that could have on their families still in Russia.

It is not easy for Russians stranded abroad to apply for refugee status.

Not too many countries will accept people, unless for real hardship, or the political refugees have means to support themselves. Money always talks.

 

[MichaelB]

Let’s remember to keep it friendly …

 

[NW-Bound]

On the news, I learned that Russians could not even use Apple Pay in Moscow, because it was turned off.

It shows the long reach of the American business arm.

 

[ivinsfan]

On the news, I learned that Russians could not even use Apple Pay in Moscow, because it was turned off.

It shows the long reach of the American business arm.

Why do you think Apple did this. I'm also curious if any CC cards would work in Russia...

It's going from not wanting to invest in Russian business to not letting people buy diapers.

 

[Midpack]

So because you live in Russia you should suffer? How about Russian children should they suffer. Such mean spirit on this thread ...

Well I'd say the average citizen of Russia will suffer plenty and the idea that the average citizen can do anything to "help change" the situation is laughable.

I'm pretty Putin doesn't care any more about his own citizens then he cares about the Ukrainian people.

While I have some sympathy for the Russian citizens, they can't sit on the fence this time. Yes, it's a repressive society with limits on the news they receive officially, and citizens can be/have been arrested/detained by the thousands - but they can't arrest hundreds of thousands of citizens. The oligarchs have to push back collectively as well, evidently some are taking steps in that direction. It's very unfortunate the sanctions are hurting every day Russians, but I assume they'll have to act at some point, by design? I have way more sympathy for the Ukrainians, the Russian people can't just stand by and watch their cities being destroyed, and civilians being killed at random.

If you don't like sanctions or large numbers of Russians standing up, what do you suggest? Ukraine is being destroyed and thousands killed every day.

 

[ivinsfan]

While I have some sympathy for the Russian citizens, they can't sit on the fence this time. Yes, it's a repressive society with limits on the news they receive officially, and citizens can be/have been arrested/detained by the thousands - but they can't arrest hundreds of thousands of citizens. The oligarchs have to push back collectively as well. It's very unfortunate the sanctions are hurting every day Russians, but I assume they'll have to act at some point, by design? I have way more sympathy for the Ukrainians, the Russian people can't just stand by and watch their cities being destroyed, and civilians being killed at random.

I guess we don't know since we don't live in Russia. The interior ministry has said they will "take all necessary measures to insure public order"...I don't know what that means and if I lived in Russia I don't know that I would want to find out. ...we can't apply our rules to Russia. Putin signed a law passed in 21 that would allow him to negate the two term rule and remain in power until 2036. It's hard to fathom what rights you don't have under conditions like that.

 

[MichaelB]

The domestic Russian financial system is still open and functioning. People have local currency credit and debit cards and can buy things. The sanctions do not affect the domestic / local currency transactions.

The flow of imported goods will slow quickly, and there is probably a fair amount of hoarding happening right now.

 

[ivinsfan]

The domestic Russian financial system is still open and functioning. People have local currency credit and debit cards and can buy things. The sanctions do not affect the domestic / local currency transactions.

The flow of imported goods will slow quickly, and there is probably a fair amount of hoarding happening right now.

Most certainly it will get worse before it gets better, I've heard many tales from my UK family of the hardships they went through as WW2 dragged on. My heart goes out to everyone impacted by this.

 

[Texas Proud]

Someone mentioned what would happen if they turned off the oil or gas...


First, I do not think Russia would turn off its main source of income...


But, I was watching congress asking questions today and one said that Europe had a trillion something (cannot remember what was said on amount) of gas in the ground but they do not want to drill to get it...


Not sure if true, but might be

 

[CaptTom]

My sympathies lie with the Ukrainian AND Russian civilians. And everyone else impacted by this.

That said, what responsibility does the individual citizen have for their government?

What would I do if I were a Russian citizen right now? Would I have the courage to stand up to the government, knowing what could happen to me and my family? Or would I pretend to join the masses cheering for an autocratic leader?

 

[youbet]

Someone mentioned what would happen if they turned off the oil or gas...


First, I do not think Russia would turn off its main source of income...


e

That income is moot if they can’t spend it internationally. Why send your resources off shore to folks who are pledged to send you nothing in return?

 

[NW-Bound]

Why do you think Apple did this. I'm also curious if any CC cards would work in Russia...

It's going from not wanting to invest in Russian business to not letting people buy diapers.

I don't know how financial transactions are done nowadays. Here in the US there are all kinds of middlemen between my checking account and the vendor I buy from.

Does the Apple Pay in Russia stop working because of the SWIFT lockout?

The domestic Russian financial system is still open and functioning. People have local currency credit and debit cards and can buy things. The sanctions do not affect the domestic / local currency transactions.

The flow of imported goods will slow quickly, and there is probably a fair amount of hoarding happening right now.

I don't know if Russian domestic credit/debit cards still work, but there are very long lines of Russians in front of ATMs trying to get cash.


.

 

[NW-Bound]

My sympathies lie with the Ukrainian AND Russian civilians. And everyone else impacted by this.

That said, what responsibility does the individual citizen have for their government?

What would I do if I were a Russian citizen right now? Would I have the courage to stand up to the government, knowing what could happen to me and my family? Or would I pretend to join the masses cheering for an autocratic leader?

I have not seen any pro-Putin demonstration. Western reporters show Russians demonstrating against the invasion.

In the videos/photos, I saw mostly women. I guess the demonstrators thought women would be treated more leniently, but I saw middle-aged women being dragged off by masked policemen.

 

[MichaelB]

I don't know how financial transactions are done nowadays. Here in the US there are all kinds of middlemen between my checking account and the vendor I buy from.

Does the Apple Pay in Russia stop working because of the SWIFT lockout?

It’s possible the banks Apple uses for Russian Applepay have some impact because of the SWIFT sanction. Global corporations are usually likely to hedge their local currency exposure, especially when it’s consumer credit. It may have been a preventive measure to avoid a financial loss on possible future sanctions.

I don't know if Russian domestic credit/debit cards still work, but there are very long lines of Russians in front of ATMs trying to get cash.

It’s easier for the central bank to keep cash flowing to banks than it is for banks to keep cash in the ATMs, especially when there’s a run.

The recently announced sanctions are not against domestic banking. They are directed against some international operations.

 

[NW-Bound]

That income is moot if they can’t spend it internationally. Why send your resources off shore to folks who are pledged to send you nothing in return?

Perhaps Russian oil and gas will be traded just for essential goods, such as food and TP?

 

[Popeye]

Looks like they are running out of buyers for Russian oil. Let’s see how long that lasts.

On Tuesday, oil trader Trafigura offered a cargo load of Russian crude oil at a record discount of $18.60 per barrel below the market rate for Brent, but could not find a buyer willing to take the risk

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60584798?piano-modal

 

[Retch The Grate]

On getting out of Russia physically, we got my sister-in-law to Istanbul on monday. My wife had her withdraw all her money from the bank when the invasion started, before things really started locking down. We were a bit worried about her flight, but fortunately Turkey hadn't closed their airspace. Now we wait for her to get a vaccine that the US recognizes (Sputnik apparently is not acceptable for traveling to the US) and then we get her over to us. Covid had thrown a monkey wrench into her coming and staying with us sooner.

As far as what is happening in country, the media over in Russia is pure propaganda. Think the worst of Fox News like Tucker Carlson but presented as it's the nightly news broadcast and not a talking head. My MIL was very misled for the first couple of days of the war until my wife and her sister got her to stop watching the broadcast news. People who get their news from YouTubers are far better informed, but that's a tiny audience compared to how many get their news from the state media, and frankly I expect my wife's favorite streamers to be arrested very soon because telling people the truth about the invasion from inside Russia seems like a fast trip to a gulag. We're hoping they'll get out of the country before they get arrested, but we will see.

On the refugee front, my SIL has a visa good for another year to visit the US, and we will see if she can convert to a refugee since my wife has supported Navalny with donations, and supposedly reprisals against family members have been threatened. My wife's expectation is that Russia is on the fast track to being like North Korea because Putin retaining power requires keeping the populace cut off, in the dark, and feeling collective guilt and responsibility for the country's military actions. There's a reason he held the press conferences he did where he had all of the high ranking officials weigh in on the need to invade Ukraine, and the media is now pushing the narrative of responsibility to the populace, along with the story that the rest of the world is unjustly attacking them for trying to protect the people that were being ethnically cleansed from Ukraine (this is NOT true and not what was happening, but it IS part of how things are being spun to the Russian people).

Now we are trying to get her mom to Istanbul to at least get the vaccination taken care of. She owns property in Russia and has her pension from a state owned company (she was a power plant engineer, built and ran large power plants for her career), so we are hoping she won't have to flee the country, but we need to get the pieces in place in case she does too.

It's been a horrifying week and my wife is in pieces a lot of the time now.

 

[youbet]

Perhaps Russian oil and gas will be traded just for essential goods, such as food and TP?

Could be as a humanitarian move to keep Europeans warm and Russians fed and wiped!

 

[ivinsfan]

On getting out of Russia physically, we got my sister-in-law to Istanbul on monday. My wife had her withdraw all her money from the bank when the invasion started, before things really started locking down. We were a bit worried about her flight, but fortunately Turkey hadn't closed their airspace. Now we wait for her to get a vaccine that the US recognizes (Sputnik apparently is not acceptable for traveling to the US) and then we get her over to us. Covid had thrown a monkey wrench into her coming and staying with us sooner.

As far as what is happening in country, the media over in Russia is pure propaganda. Think the worst of Fox News like Tucker Carlson but presented as it's the nightly news broadcast and not a talking head. My MIL was very misled for the first couple of days of the war until my wife and her sister got her to stop watching the broadcast news. People who get their news from YouTubers are far better informed, but that's a tiny audience compared to how many get their news from the state media, and frankly I expect my wife's favorite streamers to be arrested very soon because telling people the truth about the invasion from inside Russia seems like a fast trip to a gulag. We're hoping they'll get out of the country before they get arrested, but we will see.

On the refugee front, my SIL has a visa good for another year to visit the US, and we will see if she can convert to a refugee since my wife has supported Navalny with donations, and supposedly reprisals against family members have bene threatened. My wife's expectation is that Russia is on the fast track to being like North Korea because Putin retaining power requires keeping the populace cut off, in the dark, and feeling collective guilt and responsibility for the country's military actions. There's a reason he held the press conferences he did where he had all of the high ranking officials weigh in on the need to invade Ukraine, and the media is now pushing the narrative of responsibility to the populace, along with the story that the rest of the world is unjustly attacking them for trying to protect the people that were being ethnically cleansed from Ukraine (this is NOT true and not what was happening, but it IS part of how things are being spun to the Russian people).

Now we are trying to get her mom to Istanbul to at least get the vaccination taken care of. She owns property in Russia and has her pension from a state owned company (she was a power plant engineer, built and ran large power plants for her career), so we are hoping she won't have to flee the country, but we need to get the pieces in place in case she does too.

It's been a horrifying week and my wife is in pieces a lot of the time now.

I sincerely thank you for sharing a personal side of the headline. And those that don't feel any compassion for the average Russian citizen, well I hope you can find some in your heart. They are human just like we are.