Getting out of Russia?

[HealthyFuture]

Asked the rep for retirement account company if it’s possible to divest from Russian holdings. She’s looking into it. Anyone else doing this? I’d appreciate learning what others may have learned about targeted divestments historically, too. I can’t sleep at night with the thought that I could be supporting Russia’s actions.

 

[NW-Bound]

If a fund invested in Russian stocks, the money was mostly lost. There's little left to salvage, as Russian companies are wiped out.

Moscow Stock Exchange remains closed, so pricing is based on the trading on the London stock exchange.

The ruble is now less than US 1c.

The Dow Jones Russia GDR Index, which tracks London-traded Russian companies, has plunged 98% in two weeks. The slump has wiped out $572 billion from the market value of 23 stocks, including Gazprom PJSC, Sberbank of Russia PJSC and Rosneft PJSC, according to Bloomberg calculations.

You could not sell if you wanted to get out. There was no buyer.

“We can’t sell our Russian stocks,” said Russel Chesler, head of investments and capital markets at fund manager VanEck Associates Corp. in Sydney. “Even last week our brokers wouldn’t sell them when the markets were open, and this will just deteriorate things further for investors.”

 

[Bryan Barnfellow]

Former powerhouses like Sberbank selling for something like a penny a share is shocking; but might have been predicted if fund managers had been paying attention to what the West was warning would be extreme economic retaliation in the weeks leading up to invasion. What were they thinking?

-BB

 

[foxfirev5]

Last week I dumped a relatively small holding in DVYE, Emerging market dividend ETF. I quit buying it years ago when the China holdings got to about 15%. Last week I noticed Russia made up about 20% of the fund. Time to get out. Didn't lose principal and had years of decent dividends. That was good enough given the circumstances.

 

[target2019]

Emerging markets is definitely an area of concern, and has been off my list for about five years.

This reminds me why it's not always the best strategy to go "all-in" in an asset category. for example, developed int'l is more desirable, in my opinion. So I won't be going with any world stock funds either.

 

[braumeister]

Schwab has this on their home page:

Important Update Regarding Trading Russian Securities: Due to liquidity issues stemming from restrictions placed on all Russian securities (not just those impacted by recent sanctions) by Schwab's clearing agents, neither buy nor sell orders on Russian securities are able to be accepted at this time. This is a rapidly evolving situation and we will continue to provide updates as they become available.

 

[Aerides]

Most everything I have is Index Funds, so I can't possibly know if every one of the companies that are part of those have Russian investments. So an individual investor like me can't easily divest. If one holds Russian securities directly...then I guess contact your agent about donating them? Bit late now I think.

However, each day you can see big companies themselves divesting - ala BP.

Here's a recent list of those that are pulling out, either in part or full.

https://www.businessinsider.com/lis...g-out-of-russia-ukraine-war-2022-3#2-disney-2

 

[HealthyFuture]

Most everything I have is Index Funds, so I can't possibly know if every one of the companies that are part of those have Russian investments. So an individual investor like me can't easily divest. If one holds Russian securities directly...then I guess contact your agent about donating them? Bit late now I think.

However, each day you can see big companies themselves divesting - ala BP.

Here's a recent list of those that are pulling out, either in part or full.

https://www.businessinsider.com/lis...g-out-of-russia-ukraine-war-2022-3#2-disney-2

Me too on the index funds. I know that there’s nothing to be done about non-Russian companies that continue to invest. But our agent said they can identify Russian-owned companies. Thanks for the list; I hadn’t seen two of those.

I suspect I am just searching to do something meaningful (beyond donating to International Rescue Committee, United Help Ukraine, World Central Kitchen… others?) to help reduce the suffering. I can only hope that the economic pain becomes so great that folks there decide to stop him. I just fear it will not happen quickly enough.

 

[USGrant1962]

A lot of index funds use the MSCI indexes. MSCI has now essentially dropped Russian stocks from its emerging markets indexes. Not sure what that means for funds holding a bag of un-tradeable Russian stocks?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/m...rging-to-standalone-11646265326?mod=home-page

 

[NW-Bound]

Some Russia ETFs are still trading at about 15% of their high, despite their constituent stocks being traded at pennies on the dollar if you can find a buyer.

Bargain hunters are buying them, similarly to shares of bankrupt companies still attracting buyers up until the companies cease to exist as a legal entity.

 

[NW-Bound]

And the London Stock Exchange has just stopped trading many Russian stocks.

 

[Midpack]

The ruble is now less than US 1c.

Alarming indeed as the ruble has fallen at least 30%, but the ruble was only worth about 1.2 cents before the invasion...to add some perspective?

 

[Bigdawg]

Alarming indeed as the ruble has fallen at least 30%, but the ruble was only worth about 1.2 cents before the invasion...

We have heard that Nord Stream 2 is on hold. Nord Stream 1 has been up and running for a few years. How is Germany (Europe) paying Russia for that oil/natural gas? Euro's?, Dollars?

 

[Chuckanut]

It's probably too late to get out of Russian stocks.

But, Russia is not the only authoritarian country rattling its sabers. Perhaps, it's time to rethink these investments before it's too late.

 

[NW-Bound]

I read somewhere that there are 150K Russian tourists abroad who are now stranded with no money, their bank accounts no longer transactable with the rest of the world.

In Dominican Republic alone, there are 17,000 of them.

And there are few ways for them to get back to Russia. Will there be countries taking them in as refugees?

Man, I hate to be in their shoes. This is a real nightmare, worse than being a tourist stranded because of Covid.

 

[Texas Proud]

I have very little international stock investments and of the ones that I do have I do not think they had invested in Russia.


Saying that, even if they did my exposure would have to be less than .1% of my assets.

 

[Running_Man]

Vanguard Ainvestments in Russia as of last Friday. Not a large amount as Russia is a small % of global GDP.

 

[OldShooter]

A lot of index funds use the MSCI indexes. MSCI has now essentially dropped Russian stocks from its emerging markets indexes. Not sure what that means for funds holding a bag of un-tradeable Russian stocks? ...

They will liquidate them as fast as they can in order to minimize tracking errors.

I'm sure my total world fund held some Russian equities but with the collapse of the ruble, the collapse of the Russian stock market, and the index-makers' removing Russian stock from the indexes I'm pretty sure I am effectively out. It's not something that concerns me a great deal though. It's only symbolic and the important reality is that people are dying in Ukraine.

 

[MichaelB]

This reminds me of the post ‘08 GFC when GM stock was still being traded, despite the company being in bankruptcy. Buyers lost all their investment.

Trading for the biggest Russia ETFs is much higher than normal volume. There is no market price and redemptions have been suspended, so it’s not clear what the buyers think they are getting. Their only hope is the same underlying securities return to market and recover back to at least part of their previous price level.

For the global ETFs with Russian holdings, there’s not much to be done. The equities probably can’t be sold so most likely they’ll be written off and the security claims remain with the fund.

 

[CaptTom]

Interesting discussion. I can't help but wonder whether these big Russian oil and gas companies will be back at some point. This war will end, one way or another. Russia will still have lots of oil and gas. Europe and China will still need it.

I have no intention of buying any Russian stocks at pennies on the dollar. But isn't it possible some who do, will make some money in the long run?

 

[Sunset]

Interesting discussion. I can't help but wonder whether these big Russian oil and gas companies will be back at some point. This war will end, one way or another. Russia will still have lots of oil and gas. Europe and China will still need it.

I have no intention of buying any Russian stocks at pennies on the dollar. But isn't it possible some who do, will make some money in the long run?

I think China will continue to buy the oil/gas/coal regardless of any Europe invasion.

It would be pretty silly for Europe to continue to buy these supplies from Russia in the future, as they now can see, if Russia decided more countries needed to become part of Russia the oil/gas could be cut off to freeze them out during the Winter when it's needed the most.

 

[StillFiguringItOut]

I read somewhere that there are 150K Russian tourists abroad who are now stranded with no money, their bank accounts no longer transactable with the rest of the world.

In Dominican Republic alone, there are 17,000 of them.

And there are few ways for them to get back to Russia. Will there be countries taking them in as refugees?

Man, I hate to be in their shoes. This is a real nightmare, worse than being a tourist stranded because of Covid.

Yet, somehow, I’m not feeling their pain. My sympathies lie with the Ukrainian people.

 

[Texas Proud]

One thing is that if it goes low enough it might be a comeback play...


When I was young I worked at a bank that was closed by the FDIC... their preferred shares went down to a penny.... somebody at the bank bought $15,000 worth of the shares...


Well, the FDIC was sued and the holding company won.... it took years but the shares went back to the $25 and all divis paid... the guy walked away with over $25 million.... could have made probably over $40 million if he had held on to the end...


One of the risks is who knows who is going to own the companies when it is all done since it is Russia... but taking a flyer for a small investment might not be a bad ides...

 

[ivinsfan]

Asked the rep for retirement account company if it’s possible to divest from Russian holdings. She’s looking into it. Anyone else doing this? I’d appreciate learning what others may have learned about targeted divestments historically, too. I can’t sleep at night with the thought that I could be supporting Russia’s actions.

So all companies and citizens of Russia should be bankrupt and starved because of Putin? I guess ordinary Russians citizens shouldn't have food or gas or anything?

 

[ivinsfan]

Yet, somehow, I’m not feeling their pain. My sympathies lie with the Ukrainian people.

So because you live in Russia you should suffer? How about Russian children should they suffer. Such mean spirit on this thread ...