Getting paid for doing nothing

[engprodigy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Totoro What a system that essentially rewards someone for doing as little as possible, the ultimate absentee owner.

Huh?

Doing as little as possible would mean not having capital to invest, not having the knowledge to know you can, should or how to invest, as well as not taking the initiative to do it at all.

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpeirce "The market climbs a wall of worry" Wall Of Worry Definition | Investopedia

Yet, if the market keeps rising, the worry turns into a state of general euphoria. Been there, seen that. But I guess we are not there yet. The problem is when we get there, it is likely that I will stop being a worrywart and turn euphoric myself. This ain't easy, as they keep sayin'...

I am going back to Quicken screen now to see if the MF results have come in yet.

"Please God, just one more bubble" - Anon.

[LoneAspen]

I've started to ponder this more lately as I approach the end of my 4-year vesting, and making plans to leave early next year.

I'm sure my management chain (quite possibly up to the CEO himself) are going to try to talk me into staying by pitching something like "Don't you want to stay here and contribute to the company's growth?"

Why? I don't have to. That's the beauty of being an investor instead of an employee.

I started out as an employee, but as I've vested I've become more of an investor and shareholder, and that means I don't have to stay here as an employee to increase the value of my investment, that's a burden I get to place on the management team. That's why they're paid the big bucks.

Now, after all those years sitting in a cube making other people rich, I get to walk out the door and leave that task to others to sit in their cubes and increase the value of MY investment.

It's a good feeling. I'd much rather be an investor than an employee, and I'm very much looking forward to it, especially attending future shareholder meetings and scrutinizing every strategic decision they've made that affects MY investment.

[jollystomper]

I don't feel weird, as mentioned above it is payoff/reward for risk as well *and* for being a good steward with my earnings. However, I have more than a few relatives who view it as "unfair" and that those gains should be used to improve their lives...

[ggbutcher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Totoro Anyone here ever get weirded out that as a passive investor you get paid for doing nothing? Just today my stock portfolio went up with several thousand dollars and got a big dividend payment too. That's more than most 'normal' working people earn in weeks, in some countries even months. I do realize it can and will go down just as easily, but still. Capitalism is a strange system.

I think capitalism resonates with the fundamental human desire to make the situation better. Business is all about creating value, and investing is participating in that endeavor.

[brewer12345]

After crawling over a mountain of broken glass while being sprayed with lemon juice by supersoaker-wielding members of management, its about ****ing time.

[FUEGO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound $14K today is really good (from the size of your stash as described elsewhere as I have good memory). My best position is up 6% today, but I have less than 1% in that. My largest position is Berkshire, and even for a conglomerate I only put 3% of portfolio there, and it about matches the market today.

$14k today on $1.253 million in market investments (1.1%). I guess the mutual funds had posted already for the most part.

[NW-Bound]

On a day like today, my 25% cash is holding me back. That's the price of being conservative.

In terms of absolute dollars, I remember my worst day loss was $80K, sometime in the midst of the Great Recession. The best day gain was $40K, but I cannot remember when that was. I am getting old. I have a daily record going back to 1999, so can find it if I want to. But I definitely remember telling myself that the market never goes up in a day as much as it drops. The ratio of max down vs up was around 2, for me anyway.

Anyway, my holdings are more conservative now. Even so, I still find it interesting to compare my winners and losers for the day to see if I can understand why, as they never move completely in unison. Usually, a stock moves along with its sector, which may be driven by some economic news. Or there might not be any rhyme or reason to it.

Even on a day like today, one of my positions dropped 2%. Why? Then, I remember that yesterday it went up 6% due to a good news. So, today investors like to chase something else and might have sold this to raise money. Funny stuff!

PS. By the way, you are not even 40 yet, if I recall correctly. Having that investable account at your age is darn impressive. I did not pay attention when at that age, but do not think I had more than 1/2 of what you have now. Probably quite a bit less than 1/2. But wait! A dollar was worth more then.

[NYEXPAT]

Just shy of 100% cash and praying that S&P 1950 is "The Top" .

[grasshopper]

With all my tax deferred/free in Wellesley and 15% cash in my taxable, I am happy to get .25% on my portfolio, today I got .39%. I can't spend what I have already.

[wingfooted]

Up 30% YTD 2014 on top of a 45% gain in 2013. The last two months have been unbelievable as some concentrated positions in AAPL and APC have done very, very well.

Yeah, I am looking around for the exit sign. The only thing holding me back is I would hate to pay short term capital gain tax plus 3.8% ACA surcharge.

I don't feel guilty at all that I've done nothing for the money as I did work very hard to put together the initial capital.

[Major Tom]

I don't get weirded out by it at all, though there are times when the fact that I can sleep in every single day if I want to, and do what I want when I want, for the rest of my life seems like a really neat concept. Occasionally, I still have to pinch myself to make sure that it's real.

As others have said, we are not getting paid for doing nothing, as we have used our capital to invest in businesses that provide work for others and create value. Sometimes I feel like a member of the landed gentry, though I don't quite look the part, pedaling around town on my bicycle, and feeding the neighborhood cats

[Totoro]

Surreal feeling gets a bit stronger: found out that yesterday's jump was probably caused by the ECB decision to lower interest rates again.

Draghi pushes a button and suddenly I am virtually granted a few month's worth of living expenses.

Even in financial independence I guess many aspects of our lives are totally out of our own control.

Just the thought of the day.

[CaliforniaMan]

Met with a long time friend about the same age as me a couple of months ago. He said he will probably have to work until he dies. He started out much better off than me and I do feel sad for him. But I don't feel guilty. He was the hare, I was the tortoise. Guess there is wisdom in some of those old fables.

[Alan]

It does sort of seem weird or surreal to me, as well as being absolutely wonderful. I have pension checks, dividends and cap gains distributions appearing in my checking account just like the pay checks we used to get, but instead of going to work we get to play.

Long may the "weirding way" continue.

[grasshopper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliforniaMan Met with a long time friend about the same age as me a couple of months ago. He said he will probably have to work until he dies. He started out much better off than me and I do feel sad for him. But I don't feel guilty. He was the hare, I was the tortoise. Guess there is wisdom in some of those old fables.

Thanks for not using the old grasshopper and the ant tale.

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Totoro Surreal feeling gets a bit stronger: found out that yesterday's jump was probably caused by the ECB decision to lower interest rates again. Draghi pushes a button and suddenly I am virtually granted a few month's worth of living expenses. Even in financial independence I guess many aspects of our lives are totally out of our own control. Just the thought of the day.

The ECB lowered the deposit rate to -0.1%. This means they will charge cash accounts for depositing the money! This negative interest rate is unprecedented, I believe. They are saying "Take your stinkin' cash, we don't want it".

What are all the ramifications of this? Obviously, stocks went up (for now) all around the world, but if this medicine has no side effects, why not administer it earlier and in stronger doses?

[CaliforniaMan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grasshopper Thanks for not using the old grasshopper and the ant tale.

You made me smile!
Here, it was never a case of not working hard, no one worked harder, just trying to get to the finish line quicker. Making big bets, big wins, big losses. Euphoria when times were good, panic at other times. In the end just plodding along maxing out boring retirement accounts with stupid index funds in good times and bad really did seem to be the better approach.

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliforniaMan ... In the end just plodding along maxing out boring retirement accounts with stupid index funds in good times and bad really did seem to be the better approach.

... although buying low is going to be harder, fiscally as well as mentally, when you're an ER with no fresh cash coming in.

[FUEGO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound On a day like today, my 25% cash is holding me back. That's the price of being conservative. In terms of absolute dollars, I remember my worst day loss was $80K, sometime in the midst of the Great Recession. The best day gain was $40K, but I cannot remember when that was. I am getting old. I have a daily record going back to 1999, so can find it if I want to. But I definitely remember telling myself that the market never goes up in a day as much as it drops. The ratio of max down vs up was around 2, for me anyway. Anyway, my holdings are more conservative now. Even so, I still find it interesting to compare my winners and losers for the day to see if I can understand why, as they never move completely in unison. Usually, a stock moves along with its sector, which may be driven by some economic news. Or there might not be any rhyme or reason to it. Even on a day like today, one of my positions dropped 2%. Why? Then, I remember that yesterday it went up 6% due to a good news. So, today investors like to chase something else and might have sold this to raise money. Funny stuff! PS. By the way, you are not even 40 yet, if I recall correctly. Having that investable account at your age is darn impressive. I did not pay attention when at that age, but do not think I had more than 1/2 of what you have now. Probably quite a bit less than 1/2. But wait! A dollar was worth more then.

I mostly ignore my portfolio. I'm not going to touch 97.5% of it for over a year, and since the dividend yield and some other income are more than enough to cover our expenses, I might not have to sell anything ever.

You must like tracking your portfolio closely more than I do!