GM posts $9.6B 4Q loss, burns through $6.2B cash

[Gpond]

The nation's biggest domestic automaker said Thursday it lost $30.9 billion for the full year and expects an opinion from its auditors as to whether the company remains a "going concern" when its annual report is issued in March. That means the auditors will determine whether there is substantial doubt about the automaker's ability to continue operations.
GM posts $9.6B 4Q loss, burns through $6.2B cash - Yahoo! Finance

 

[tsturbo]

Let them fail. No amount of cash infusion is going to save gm. They don't get it, people do not want to buy their cars. Me included.

 

[YesIam]

GM is finished and we should have seen that Before the money was infused. Just a waste I say. If the auditors reveal that kind of loss just now, GM knew it and so did the gov't before the "bailout" Ha, Ha. That's just the way to waste tax payers' mney

 

[OAG]

Hey, they had to have the infusion of money as the "golden parachutes" (they will call them something else as the term is no longer PC) have to be paid/collected/ripped off for all the honchos as they leave.

 

[HFWR]

Let them fail. No amount of cash infusion is going to save gm.

Quite possibly...

...people do not want to buy their cars...

How many times must I refute this assertion? Please look at their sales v. other auto companies, then check back.

 

[bssc]

What does this mean for NASCAR? I know that they will continue to sponsor but I suspect that NASCAR has peaked for the time being.

 

[YesIam]

Hey, they had to have the infusion of money as the "golden parachutes" (they will call them something else as the term is no longer PC) have to be paid/collected/ripped off for all the honchos as they leave.

It is too bad that there is so much power at the upper levels that taxpayers' money can be donated to a failing powerful company who knew all along that their operations would sooner or later fail. Inspite of declining sales figures, the nonsense continued. As long as the upper management and highly paid workers could continue drawing paychecks thus driving the company into the ground. Hey but the big guys did not develop GM and pulled down big bucks long enough that they are set for life. You don't see them infusing the company with their money to keep it going and for that matter the stock holders (owners) aren't either.

 

[ERD50]

...and so did the gov't before the "bailout" Ha, Ha. That's just the way to waste tax payers' mney

I don't think Washington DC sees it as a "waste of money". They bought a lot of votes with that (our) money.

-ERD50

 

[YesIam]

I don't think Washington DC sees it as a "waste of money". They bought a lot of votes with that (our) money.

-ERD50

Why yes they did!

 

[tsturbo]

Quite possibly...



How many times must I refute this assertion? Please look at their sales v. other auto companies, then check back.

What? Toyota just over took them (GM), their vehicles are not selling here in the US, IMO anyone who buys a domestic is a fool, when you can get reliability, style and much much better resale in a Honda or a Toyota. It is all about getting the best item for my hard earned dollars and the diminishing used to be big 3 don't come close. Have you driven a Honda lately? That is all I have owned since '88 and there is no going back. I have driven US domestic, i.e., company cars and they don't hold a candle to a Honda or Toyota.

 

[ERD50]

What? Toyota just over took them (GM), their vehicles are not selling here in the US, IMO anyone who buys a domestic is a fool, when you can get reliability, style and much much better resale in a Honda or a Toyota. It is all about getting the best item for my hard earned dollars and the diminishing used to be big 3 don't come close. Have you driven a Honda lately? That is all I have owned since '88 and there is no going back. I have driven US domestic, i.e., company cars and they don't hold a candle to a Honda or Toyota.

HFWR did not ask you whether *you* liked their cars or not. He said "Please look at their sales v. other auto companies, then check back."

So, do have sales figures? I'd like to see them myself.

-ERD50

 

[bow-tie]

HFWR did not ask you whether *you* liked their cars or not. He said "Please look at their sales v. other auto companies, then check back."

So, do have sales figures? I'd like to see them myself.

-ERD50

Head over to New Car Reviews, Ratings & Pricing, Auto News for New Models – TTAC - they post updated sales numbers for all of the mfgs. Everyone is getting the beatdown, Chrysler by far the worst, which stands to reason considering their product offerings.

 

[Zathras]

GM's biggest problem is not sales per-se. It is that they can't make money on smaller vehicles.
Combine this with the recession and earlier $4 gas prices and they are hurting big time.
I don't see though, how they can start making money on small cars without major restructuring of their agreements with retirees and employees without going into chapter 11. Until those agreements are restructured, throwing money at them is a waste.

 

[tsturbo]

I do not have sales figures at my disposal, however, if you google you will come up with a wealth of articles. Anyone who does not realize that gm is in the toliet has been living on another planet or hiding under a rock. It is amazing to me that there are still gm cheerleaders out there.

 

[HFWR]

I do not have sales figures at my disposal, however, if you google you will come up with a wealth of articles. Anyone who does not realize that gm is in the toliet has been living on another planet or hiding under a rock. It is amazing to me that there are still gm cheerleaders out there.

I am not a GM cheerleader, btw, but I can use Google... The statement "people do not want to buy their cars" is false.

Auto Sales - Markets Data Center - WSJ.com

 

[tsturbo]

I am not a GM cheerleader, btw, but I can use Google... The statement "people do not want to buy their cars" is false.

Auto Sales - Markets Data Center - WSJ.com

No it is not, gm sales have been declining for years, did you just climb out from under a rock? They have lost volume and market share constantly year after year. Why are you such a fan boy for gm? You must either work for them, retired from them or own their lousy stock.

 

[tsturbo]

From you link:
GM SOM = 19.4% (-4.5% SOM YTD) Sales off by 48%
Honda SOM = 10.8% +1.4 SOM YTD Sales off by 27.9%
Toyota SOM = 17.9% +1.4 SOM YTD Sales off by 31.9%

 

[Steve O]

It's a long read but I agree with this guy...

What's next for America when GM goes belly up? | EnerPub - Energy Publisher

 

[ziggy29]

It's a long read but I agree with this guy...

What's next for America when GM goes belly up? | EnerPub - Energy Publisher

That was a rather compelling read, and it ought to scare the Hell out of all of us into doing whatever we need to do now in order to avert the worst-case scenario down the road.

Thanks for the link.

 

[HFWR]

No it is not, gm sales have been declining for years, did you just climb out from under a rock? They have lost volume and market share constantly year after year. Why are you such a fan boy for gm? You must either work for them, retired from them or own their lousy stock.

If no one wanted their cars, how could they be #2 in sales volume? Simple question...

 

[tsturbo]

If no one wanted their cars, how could they be #2 in sales volume? Simple question...

Were #1, Toyota has overtook them, they are declining fast. They have poor management and they build inferior products, that is why people in droves are going to Honda and Toyota, I realized this back in 1988 when I bought my first Honda, it was far superior to anything the big 3 were building, couple that with its superb reliability and outstanding resale value which is still true today, why would anyone buy anything from the big 3?

Buy whatever you want, it is your money. I just do not want my tax dollars going to support gm, their management and their inferior products. How much taxpayer money do we need to pour down this black hole until people realize they will never survive? It is a complete waste of taxpayer dollars.

 

[ERD50]

If no one wanted their cars, how could they be #2 in sales volume? Simple question...

It does seem like a simple question, but all we get from tsturbo is answers to other questions, and accusations.

If "no one" bought those 23,987 Chevy Silverados, then I guess less than "no one" bought those 20,782 Camrys?

Jan 2009 % Chg from
Jan '08 YTD 2009 % Chg from
YTD 2008

Ford F - Series PU 25,237 -38.6 25,237 -38.6
Chevrolet Silverado PU 23,987 -33.6 23,987 -33.6
Toyota Camry / Solara 20,782 -34.2 20,782 -34.2
Toyota Corolla / Matrix 19,238 -7.2 19,238 -7.2
Honda Accord 16,581 -30.8 16,581 -30.8
Honda Civic 14,198 -32.4 14,198 -32.4
Nissan Altima 14,135 -34.7 14,135 -34.7
Honda CR-V 13,143 -17.9 13,143 -17.9
Dodge Ram PU 12,843 -35.5 12,843 -35.5
Chevrolet Malibu 9,312 -34.0 9,312 -34.0

-ERD50

 

[tsturbo]

It does seem like a simple question, but all we get from tsturbo is answers to other questions, and accusations.

If "no one" bought those 23,987 Chevy Silverados, then I guess less than "no one" bought those 20,782 Camrys?

Jan 2009 % Chg from
Jan '08 YTD 2009 % Chg from
YTD 2008

Ford F - Series PU 25,237 -38.6 25,237 -38.6
Chevrolet Silverado PU 23,987 -33.6 23,987 -33.6
Toyota Camry / Solara 20,782 -34.2 20,782 -34.2
Toyota Corolla / Matrix 19,238 -7.2 19,238 -7.2
Honda Accord 16,581 -30.8 16,581 -30.8
Honda Civic 14,198 -32.4 14,198 -32.4
Nissan Altima 14,135 -34.7 14,135 -34.7
Honda CR-V 13,143 -17.9 13,143 -17.9
Dodge Ram PU 12,843 -35.5 12,843 -35.5
Chevrolet Malibu 9,312 -34.0 9,312 -34.0

-ERD50

Hey erd, whatever. You go buy your silverado and focus, I could really care less. What I do not want, is my hard earned tax dollars going to support this company. Obviously you have a vested intrest or ulterior motive. You cannot stomach the fact that GM is sinking and sinking fast and your going down with the ship.

 

[Midpack]

You're right, the "Detroit 3" are selling cars - but ultimately you can hardly attribute their 50 year decline to anything but a lot of people don't want their cars. From 48.3% market share in the 60's to 19.1% in May 2008 (and probably lower today) with annual US sales ranging from 10 to 17 million/yr - would translate to 3 to 5 million car buyers have walked away from GM. That's a lot of people who clearly don't want their cars.

Noting that all automakers are doing poorly right now or that GM is selling some cars, is missing the point and avoiding the underlying issues.

Few if any Americans are happy about not buying American cars. After putting out clearly inferior cars decade after decade, you can't expect us to spend our hard earned dollars just to support Detroit 3 autoworkers who make more in wages & benefits than most of us, along with highly paid management who have gotten it wrong for 50 years. Buying a Honda, Toyota or Nissan also supports American autoworkers in many cases too.

How GM Lost Its Sales Crown to Toyota - BusinessWeek

 

[HFWR]

If "no one" bought those 23,987 Chevy Silverados, then I guess less than "no one" bought those 20,782 Camrys?

-ERD50

Thank you!

Noting that all automakers are doing poorly right now or that GM is selling some cars, is missing the point and avoiding the underlying issues.

Saying GM makes cars no one wants is patently false, and indicates to me that there is an emotional component involved. It's a freakin' car company, not Stalin... As for the other points, I've never argued otherwise, and am not missing the point.